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(general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218114] Thu, 24 July 2008 09:16 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

After using the JSP functionalities of WTP for some time (actually, a
couple of years), I was wondering if there is any plan to improve them
in WTP or not.
I mean, there are some problems that heavily compromize the user
experience when working with JSPs: they make the JST part dedicated to
JSP editing appear quite like a draft implementation... :-(

These are the most serious ones, IMHO:

- https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=150794
JSP quote escaping does not adhere to JSP specifications. Some work has
been done, a patch was contributed, but because of a test case failing
no more work has be done to completely fix the issue.
This bug is two years old!

- https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=130399
The editor often does not update itself correctly, particularly
regarding errors and warnings. I found myself too often in the need to
close and reopen a JSP editor because it was messed up with errors and
warnings no longer valid. I know this bug is a difficult one, because I
couldn't myself find a way to systematically reproduce it, but I think
it is so much serious that it should be investigated carefully. It
heavily afflects the user experience and it's almost two years and a
half old!

- https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=151689
Another difficult bug (because hard to reproduce) but very serious: in
my real projects, when I search for Java references, even if in the
search progress Eclipse seems to look in JSP indexes, it can't find any
hits in JSPs! Another two years old bug!

- I can't understand whether Java refactorings are supposed to work with
JSPs, but I never succeed. Here are some bug reports for this:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=105172
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=127508
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=129123
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=148592
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=164263
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=166906
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=210247

- code completion in JSPs is a pain, especially if you are used to JDT
functionalities... There are a couple of bugs that I think are quite
minor, but very very annoying:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=134073
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=205026
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=218526
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=237775
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=238101

I would appreciate very much some feedback about this topic.

Thank you in advance!

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218135 is a reply to message #218114] Thu, 24 July 2008 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: dcarver.starstandard.org

The Eclipse WTP committer team is currently going through a planning
process, and Eclipse is having a Bug Day this friday, where people will
be around that can help you get started with patches. With that said,
if you see items, that you think should be on the plan for 3.1, you can
add the keyword PLAN to each of the bugs. This will let the component
leads realize that somebody is asking for this to be taken a look at for
3.1. Again, patches will go a long way in helping to get these resolved.

Dave

Mauro Molinari wrote:
> After using the JSP functionalities of WTP for some time (actually, a
> couple of years), I was wondering if there is any plan to improve them
> in WTP or not.
> I mean, there are some problems that heavily compromize the user
> experience when working with JSPs: they make the JST part dedicated to
> JSP editing appear quite like a draft implementation... :-(
>
> These are the most serious ones, IMHO:
>
> - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=150794
> JSP quote escaping does not adhere to JSP specifications. Some work has
> been done, a patch was contributed, but because of a test case failing
> no more work has be done to completely fix the issue.
> This bug is two years old!
>
> - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=130399
> The editor often does not update itself correctly, particularly
> regarding errors and warnings. I found myself too often in the need to
> close and reopen a JSP editor because it was messed up with errors and
> warnings no longer valid. I know this bug is a difficult one, because I
> couldn't myself find a way to systematically reproduce it, but I think
> it is so much serious that it should be investigated carefully. It
> heavily afflects the user experience and it's almost two years and a
> half old!
>
> - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=151689
> Another difficult bug (because hard to reproduce) but very serious: in
> my real projects, when I search for Java references, even if in the
> search progress Eclipse seems to look in JSP indexes, it can't find any
> hits in JSPs! Another two years old bug!
>
> - I can't understand whether Java refactorings are supposed to work with
> JSPs, but I never succeed. Here are some bug reports for this:
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=105172
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=127508
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=129123
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=148592
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=164263
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=166906
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=210247
>
> - code completion in JSPs is a pain, especially if you are used to JDT
> functionalities... There are a couple of bugs that I think are quite
> minor, but very very annoying:
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=134073
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=205026
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=218526
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=237775
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=238101
>
> I would appreciate very much some feedback about this topic.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218143 is a reply to message #218135] Thu, 24 July 2008 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

David Carver ha scritto:
> The Eclipse WTP committer team is currently going through a planning
> process, and Eclipse is having a Bug Day this friday, where people will
> be around that can help you get started with patches. With that said,
> if you see items, that you think should be on the plan for 3.1, you can
> add the keyword PLAN to each of the bugs. This will let the component
> leads realize that somebody is asking for this to be taken a look at for
> 3.1. Again, patches will go a long way in helping to get these resolved.
>
> Dave

Thank you Dave, I will follow your suggestions.
Is there already a designated wiki page (or something alike) that will
be used to track the planned items for WTP 3.1?

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218148 is a reply to message #218114] Thu, 24 July 2008 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Philippe Marschall is currently offline Philippe MarschallFriend
Messages: 120
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Mauro Molinari wrote:
> After using the JSP functionalities of WTP for some time (actually, a
> couple of years), I was wondering if there is any plan to improve them
> in WTP or not.
> I mean, there are some problems that heavily compromize the user
> experience when working with JSPs: they make the JST part dedicated to
> JSP editing appear quite like a draft implementation... :-(

I find JSP 2/JSPX and EL support really disappointing. All the warnings
that bubble up from the JSP compiler add to this impression. Not to
forget the phantom EL syntax errors.

Cheers
Philipe
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218156 is a reply to message #218135] Thu, 24 July 2008 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

David Carver ha scritto:
> be around that can help you get started with patches. With that said,
> if you see items, that you think should be on the plan for 3.1, you can
> add the keyword PLAN to each of the bugs. This will let the component
> leads realize that somebody is asking for this to be taken a look at for
> 3.1. Again, patches will go a long way in helping to get these resolved.

I just realized that there is a problem though... I cannot add the
"plan" keyword to a bug report that was not created by me...

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218180 is a reply to message #218156] Thu, 24 July 2008 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: dcarver.starstandard.org

Thanks, I'll see if I can bring this up on the call today. It's a small
flaw in their planning process. :)

Dave

Mauro Molinari wrote:
> David Carver ha scritsto:
>> be around that can help you get started with patches. With that
>> said, if you see items, that you think should be on the plan for 3.1,
>> you can add the keyword PLAN to each of the bugs. This will let the
>> component leads realize that somebody is asking for this to be taken a
>> look at for 3.1. Again, patches will go a long way in helping to get
>> these resolved.
>
> I just realized that there is a problem though... I cannot add the
> "plan" keyword to a bug report that was not created by me...
>
> Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218187 is a reply to message #218148] Thu, 24 July 2008 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: dcarver.starstandard.org

Well, the word is from today's call, that if the community has any
particular bugs that they would like to address, then they should vote
for the bugs, and also help to triage the bugs.

One thing I'll say in general, is that the best way to try and get a bug
fixed is to be responsive to when a committer responds on a bug.
Provide as much detail and reproducable steps as possible. If you have
the programming skills, a patch and a corresponding Junit test to go
with it can go a long way into helping get something completed.

The more active community participation the better. The problem I've
seen from some in the community is that they report a bug, but never
follow up with it.

The above active participation is how I try to approach it from the role
of a community member, I'm also a committer in the XSL Tools incubator
project, so I understand the work load and time concerns that a
committer has as well.

Active participation, and followup on bug reports from community members
is critical though in order to help get them addressed.

Dave

Philippe Marschall wrote:
> Mauro Molinari wrote:
>> After using the JSP functionalities of WTP for some time (actually, a
>> couple of years), I was wondering if there is any plan to improve them
>> in WTP or not.
>> I mean, there are some problems that heavily compromize the user
>> experience when working with JSPs: they make the JST part dedicated to
>> JSP editing appear quite like a draft implementation... :-(
>
> I find JSP 2/JSPX and EL support really disappointing. All the warnings
> that bubble up from the JSP compiler add to this impression. Not to
> forget the phantom EL syntax errors.
>
> Cheers
> Philipe
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218194 is a reply to message #218180] Fri, 25 July 2008 07:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

David Carver ha scritto:
> Thanks, I'll see if I can bring this up on the call today. It's a small
> flaw in their planning process. :)
>
> Dave

Thanks to you Dave, let us know.

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218202 is a reply to message #218187] Fri, 25 July 2008 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

David Carver ha scritto:
> Well, the word is from today's call, that if the community has any
> particular bugs that they would like to address, then they should vote
> for the bugs, and also help to triage the bugs.
>
> One thing I'll say in general, is that the best way to try and get a bug
> fixed is to be responsive to when a committer responds on a bug. Provide
> as much detail and reproducable steps as possible. If you have the
> programming skills, a patch and a corresponding Junit test to go with it
> can go a long way into helping get something completed.
>
> The more active community participation the better. The problem I've
> seen from some in the community is that they report a bug, but never
> follow up with it.
>
> The above active participation is how I try to approach it from the role
> of a community member, I'm also a committer in the XSL Tools incubator
> project, so I understand the work load and time concerns that a
> committer has as well.
>
> Active participation, and followup on bug reports from community members
> is critical though in order to help get them addressed.
>
> Dave

I just read this message, sorry for the other one.

First of all, thank you. I'm going to vote for those bugs, but please
consider the fact that WebTools is a HUGE project and it only allows
just 10 votes per user... other smaller projects (like Mylyn, for
example) allow up to 20 votes per user...

Secondly, I perfectly understand your point of view. Anyway, my original
post was not about bugfixing in Webtools in general, but rather about
your plan to improve a specific part of it, the JSP editing tools.

In particular, I pointed out links to some really critical bugs IMHO,
most of them are old and got responsive replies, but are still there.

So, I hope you will careful consider improving the JSP editing tools of
JST for 3.1 because I think that they really need some work to make them
productive.

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218239 is a reply to message #218202] Fri, 25 July 2008 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: dcarver.starstandard.org

Mauro Molinari wrote:

> I just read this message, sorry for the other one.
>
> First of all, thank you. I'm going to vote for those bugs, but please
> consider the fact that WebTools is a HUGE project and it only allows
> just 10 votes per user... other smaller projects (like Mylyn, for
> example) allow up to 20 votes per user...
>
> Secondly, I perfectly understand your point of view. Anyway, my original
> post was not about bugfixing in Webtools in general, but rather about
> your plan to improve a specific part of it, the JSP editing tools.
>
> In particular, I pointed out links to some really critical bugs IMHO,
> most of them are old and got responsive replies, but are still there.
>
> So, I hope you will careful consider improving the JSP editing tools of
> JST for 3.1 because I think that they really need some work to make them
> productive.

I totally agree about the number of votes one gets with WTP, it's too low.

I brought up the view on the call about the need to give bugs a higher
priority instead of just documenting what features are planned for a
particular release. Hopefully, you'll be seeing some of those bugs
start to get a 3.1 target milestone. But again, if those bugs are
highly critical to your situation then it's best to put some comments
into those bugs outlining that you can reproduce the problem.

More importantly, when a committer responds (it may not be until August
as many are on vacation right now), make sure you follow up with them.
The big issue we have in general is that people post bugs, but don't
follow up when a committer asks for more details on how to reproduce it.

Also, feel free to drop by #eclipse if you need any particular support.
Also, users can help the committers by triaging bugs, and seeing if they
are truely bugs, or just user error. This helps to weed out the bugs
that may have been fixed already (some of those bug reports are several
years old, and things have changed since then.)

Dave
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218301 is a reply to message #218202] Sat, 26 July 2008 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: dcarver.starstandard.org

The number of votes a bugzilla user has available in WTP has been
changed from 10 to 20. With the future reorg that will be happening in
WTP, this should expand further.

Dave

Mauro Molinari wrote:
> David Carver ha scritto:
>> Well, the word is from today's call, that if the community has any
>> particular bugs that they would like to address, then they should vote
>> for the bugs, and also help to triage the bugs.
>>
>> One thing I'll say in general, is that the best way to try and get a
>> bug fixed is to be responsive to when a committer responds on a bug.
>> Provide as much detail and reproducable steps as possible. If you
>> have the programming skills, a patch and a corresponding Junit test to
>> go with it can go a long way into helping get something completed.
>>
>> The more active community participation the better. The problem I've
>> seen from some in the community is that they report a bug, but never
>> follow up with it.
>>
>> The above active participation is how I try to approach it from the
>> role of a community member, I'm also a committer in the XSL Tools
>> incubator project, so I understand the work load and time concerns
>> that a committer has as well.
>>
>> Active participation, and followup on bug reports from community
>> members is critical though in order to help get them addressed.
>>
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #218377 is a reply to message #218114] Sun, 27 July 2008 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2342
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Yes, most of what you've listed is slated for 3.1, except for bug
150794, which will be addressed in 3.0.x as soon as possible.
Search and refactoring support in general will be a focus of the
next release.

--
---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP Source Editing
IBM Rational


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #219339 is a reply to message #218301] Mon, 18 August 2008 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

David Carver ha scritto:
> The number of votes a bugzilla user has available in WTP has been
> changed from 10 to 20. With the future reorg that will be happening in
> WTP, this should expand further.
>
> Dave

Thank you very much David!

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #219347 is a reply to message #218239] Mon, 18 August 2008 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

David Carver ha scritto:
> I brought up the view on the call about the need to give bugs a higher
> priority instead of just documenting what features are planned for a
> particular release. Hopefully, you'll be seeing some of those bugs
> start to get a 3.1 target milestone. But again, if those bugs are
> highly critical to your situation then it's best to put some comments
> into those bugs outlining that you can reproduce the problem.
>
> More importantly, when a committer responds (it may not be until August
> as many are on vacation right now), make sure you follow up with them.
> The big issue we have in general is that people post bugs, but don't
> follow up when a committer asks for more details on how to reproduce it.

This is what I try to do every time a developer asks me for further
detail. So, I can assure you that I will try to do my best to follow up
if any developer will try to look at those bugs.

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #544953 is a reply to message #218301] Tue, 06 July 2010 08:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauro Molinari is currently offline Mauro MolinariFriend
Messages: 281
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Il 26/07/2008 15.08, David Carver ha scritto:
> The number of votes a bugzilla user has available in WTP has been
> changed from 10 to 20. With the future reorg that will be happening in
> WTP, this should expand further.

Hi David,
first of all I would like to say thank you for the effort spent on WTP
3.2.0 to improve the JSP editing functionalities of WTP! I saw a lot of
activities on this area and I hope you will keep on this direction for
WTP 3.3.0!

Anyway, is there any reason for which the maximum votes number for WTP
Source Editing Bugzilla component has been dropped again to only 10?

Mauro.
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #545056 is a reply to message #544953] Tue, 06 July 2010 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2342
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On 7/6/2010 4:24 AM, Mauro Molinari wrote:
> Il 26/07/2008 15.08, David Carver ha scritto:
>> The number of votes a bugzilla user has available in WTP has been
>> changed from 10 to 20. With the future reorg that will be happening in
>> WTP, this should expand further.
>
> Hi David,
> first of all I would like to say thank you for the effort spent on WTP
> 3.2.0 to improve the JSP editing functionalities of WTP! I saw a lot of
> activities on this area and I hope you will keep on this direction for
> WTP 3.3.0!
>
> Anyway, is there any reason for which the maximum votes number for WTP
> Source Editing Bugzilla component has been dropped again to only 10?

This was my decision. Source Editing is smaller than either of the
previous two projects that made up WTP, and by forcing you to prioritize
their own votes, I believe it is easier for the committers to actually
garner what is most wanted by the community. While I'll admit this is
arbitrary and subjective, 20 feels more like a bookmarking system than a
useful number of votes, especially in light of the bug tagging feature
( https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/docs/html/query.html#individua l-buglists)
that is now available for that.

--
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP Source Editing and JSDT
IBM Rational


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: (general) Is there any plan to improve the JSP editing functionalities in JST? [message #545652 is a reply to message #545056] Thu, 08 July 2010 13:41 Go to previous message
Mauro Molinari is currently offline Mauro MolinariFriend
Messages: 281
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Il 06/07/2010 16.23, Nitin Dahyabhai ha scritto:
> This was my decision. Source Editing is smaller than either of the
> previous two projects that made up WTP, and by forcing you to prioritize
> their own votes, I believe it is easier for the committers to actually
> garner what is most wanted by the community. While I'll admit this is
> arbitrary and subjective, 20 feels more like a bookmarking system than a
> useful number of votes, especially in light of the bug tagging feature
> ( https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/docs/html/query.html#individua l-buglists)
> that is now available for that.

I see, thank you, although that's not my case. Unfortunately, as I said
in this thread, my own need to have many votes for the Source Editing
project was due to the fact that there were so many severe problems in
this area that I felt they needed votes. I now have to review my list of
voted bugs in this area after the 3.2.0 release, anyway right now I'm in
a situation in which I can't vote for any bug anymore because the UI
used by Bugzilla to add votes is always complaining that I have too many
votes on the WTP Source Editing component... That's just a Bugzilla UI
usability problem.

Mauro.
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