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Modeling package [message #6599] Wed, 31 October 2007 07:47 Go to next message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
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We
Re: Modeling package [message #6621 is a reply to message #6599] Wed, 31 October 2007 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

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Rich,

I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components. I think
it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to the
Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the modeling package.
There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components that should
be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...

The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too. Source code is awfully
useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating code
that extends the framework and will likely find themselves handicapped
without the framework source code.

We ought to talk to the STP folks about including BPMN too...


Richard Gronback wrote:
> We've been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested,
> I'm posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its
> proposal and definition.
>
> In accordance with the proposed policies
> ( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),
> < http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,>
> it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
> under the "Models and Model Development" category of Europa/Ganymede
> (and their dependencies). This would be:
>
> * EMF Runtime
> * EMF SDO
> * XSD
> * EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)
> * JET
> * GMF
> * EODM
> * OCL
> * UML2
> * UML2 Tools
>
>
> To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we'd
> need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning aspect
> of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling
> package would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this requirement?
>
> Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff
> on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).
>
> I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages
> as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this
> present a problem to anyone?
>
> Another point to consider are those "modeling" features found outside
> of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming
> feature. Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming
> features in this package?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich


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Rich,<br>
<br>
I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components.&nbsp; I
think it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to
the Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the&nbsp; modeling package.&nbsp;
There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components that should
be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...<br>
<br>
The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too.&nbsp; Source code is awfully
useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating
code that extends the framework and will likely find themselves
handicapped without the framework source code.<br>
<br>
We ought to talk to the STP folks about including BPMN too...<br>
<br>
<br>
Richard Gronback wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:C34DE38C.1EA92%25richard.gronback@borland.com"
type="cite">
<title>Modeling package</title>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 12px;">We&#8217;ve
been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested, I&#8217;m
posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its
proposal and definition.<br>
<br>
In accordance with the proposed policies (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href=" http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,"> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),</a>
it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
under the &#8220;Models and Model Development&#8221; category of Europa/Ganymede
(and their dependencies). &nbsp;This would be:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<ul>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EMF Runtime
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EMF SDO
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">XSD
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EMF Data Integrity Frameworks
(Query/Transaction/Validation)
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">JET
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">GMF
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EODM
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">OCL
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">UML2
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">UML2 Tools<br>
</span></font></li>
</ul>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br>
To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we&#8217;d
need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. &nbsp;The most concerning aspect
of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling
package would have no UML diagramming. &nbsp;How firm is this requirement? &nbsp;<br>
<br>
Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff
on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).<br>
<br>
I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages as
small as possible, we should not include SDK features. &nbsp;Does this
present a problem to anyone?<br>
<br>
Another point to consider are those &#8220;modeling&#8221; features found outside
of the Modeling project. &nbsp;For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming
feature. &nbsp;Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming
features in this package?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Rich</span></font>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

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Re: Modeling package [message #6640 is a reply to message #6621] Wed, 31 October 2007 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: eclipse6.rizzoweb.com

Ed Merks wrote:
> Rich,
>
> I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components. I think
> it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to the
> Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the modeling package.
> There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components that should
> be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...

Doesn't EMF "core" use JET for its code generation already? In other
words, if you're already including EMF doesn't that mean you are getting
JET (even though it is <1.0)?


> The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too. Source code is awfully
> useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating code
> that extends the framework and will likely find themselves handicapped
> without the framework source code.

I'll second that - I would never want to work on an EMF-based project
without having the EMF code handy. Debugging would be nigh impossible.

Eric




> Richard Gronback wrote:
>> We’ve been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested,
>> I’m posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its
>> proposal and definition.
>>
>> In accordance with the proposed policies
>> ( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),
>> < http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,>
>> it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
>> under the “Models and Model Development” category of Europa/Ganymede
>> (and their dependencies). This would be:
>>
>> * EMF Runtime
>> * EMF SDO
>> * XSD
>> * EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)
>> * JET
>> * GMF
>> * EODM
>> * OCL
>> * UML2
>> * UML2 Tools
>>
>>
>> To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we’d
>> need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning aspect
>> of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling
>> package would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this requirement?
>>
>> Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff
>> on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).
>>
>> I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages
>> as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this
>> present a problem to anyone?
>>
>> Another point to consider are those “modeling” features found outside
>> of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming
>> feature. Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming
>> features in this package?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rich
>
Re: Modeling package [message #6658 is a reply to message #6640] Wed, 31 October 2007 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

Eric,

EMF is still using its own local version of JET rather than reusing the
JET project's version.

I personally find myself extremely frustrated when I debug and can't see
code for everything on the stack. So I think that excluding the SDK
likely makes sense for most packages, but probably doesn't make so much
sense for tools used to generate code that extends a framework.


Eric Rizzo wrote:
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> Rich,
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components. I
>> think it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to
>> the Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the modeling
>> package. There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components
>> that should be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...
>
> Doesn't EMF "core" use JET for its code generation already? In other
> words, if you're already including EMF doesn't that mean you are
> getting JET (even though it is <1.0)?
>
>
>> The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too. Source code is awfully
>> useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating
>> code that extends the framework and will likely find themselves
>> handicapped without the framework source code.
>
> I'll second that - I would never want to work on an EMF-based project
> without having the EMF code handy. Debugging would be nigh impossible.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>> Richard Gronback wrote:
>>> We’ve been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as
>>> suggested, I’m posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move
>>> ahead with its proposal and definition.
>>>
>>> In accordance with the proposed policies
>>> ( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),
>>> < http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,>
>>> it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
>>> under the “Models and Model Development” category of Europa/Ganymede
>>> (and their dependencies). This would be:
>>>
>>> * EMF Runtime
>>> * EMF SDO
>>> * XSD
>>> * EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)
>>> * JET
>>> * GMF
>>> * EODM
>>> * OCL
>>> * UML2
>>> * UML2 Tools
>>>
>>>
>>> To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later,
>>> we’d need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning
>>> aspect of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the
>>> Modeling package would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this
>>> requirement?
>>> Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4
>>> cutoff on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).
>>>
>>> I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages
>>> as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this
>>> present a problem to anyone?
>>>
>>> Another point to consider are those “modeling” features found
>>> outside of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN
>>> diagramming feature. Should we look to include all end user
>>> modeling/diagramming features in this package?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rich
>>
>
Re: Modeling package [message #6675 is a reply to message #6621] Wed, 31 October 2007 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
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Well, I certainly agree on the SDK part, as all of the tooling and
generation for GMF is only available in the SDK. I was just trying to
consider the posted policy ;)

And, I definitely would be in favor of including incubating components.
Let
Re: Modeling package [message #7321 is a reply to message #6599] Thu, 01 November 2007 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ian Skerrett is currently offline Ian Skerrett
Messages: 198
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
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Modeling packageRich,

IMO, the 'policies' for EPP are how the EPP project will make decisions =
on building the packages they are responsible for; specifically the four =
they do today. If the modeling top level project, or for that matter =
anyone else, created their own package, you have the freedom to decide =
what you want in it.

I 'hope' that a number of groups/individuals will create their own =
packages in time for Ganymede and we will create a 'cool packages' page =
that contains all of the community packages. We would link to this =
page from the download page. Make sense?
"Richard Gronback" <richard.gronback@borland.com> wrote in message =
news:C34DE38C.1EA92%richard.gronback@borland.com...
We've been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested, =
I'm posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its =
proposal and definition.

In accordance with the proposed policies =
( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00=
100.html), it seems we should create a package that includes features =
shipping under the "Models and Model Development" category of =
Europa/Ganymede (and their dependencies). This would be:


a.. EMF Runtime=20
b.. EMF SDO=20
c.. XSD=20
d.. EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)=20
e.. JET=20
f.. GMF=20
g.. EODM=20
h.. OCL=20
i.. UML2=20
j.. UML2 Tools


To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we'd =
need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning aspect =
of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling package =
would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this requirement? =20

Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff =
on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).

I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages =
as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this =
present a problem to anyone?

Another point to consider are those "modeling" features found outside =
of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming =
feature. Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming =
features in this package?

Thanks,
Rich
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Modeling package</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3199" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IMO, the 'policies' for EPP are how the =
EPP project=20
will make decisions on building the packages they are responsible for;=20
specifically the four they do today.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the modeling top =
level=20
project, or for that matter anyone else, created their own package, you =
have the=20
freedom to decide what you want in it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I 'hope' that a number of =
groups/individuals will=20
create their own packages in time for Ganymede and we will create a =
'cool=20
packages' page that contains all of the community packages.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
We would=20
link to this page from the download page.&nbsp;&nbsp; Make =
sense?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Richard Gronback" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:richard.gronback@borland.com">richard.gronback@borland.com=
</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:C34DE38C.1EA92%richard.gronback@borland.com">news:C34DE38C.1=
EA92%richard.gronback@borland.com</A>...</DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px">We=92ve been=20
discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested, I=92m =
posting here=20
and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its proposal and=20
definition.<BR><BR>In accordance with the proposed policies (<A=20
=
href=3D" http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kagin=
g/msg00100.html),">http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technolo=
gy.packaging/msg00100.html),</A>=20
it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping =
under the=20
=93Models and Model Development=94 category of Europa/Ganymede (and =
their=20
dependencies). &nbsp;This would be:<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>
<UL>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EMF=20
Runtime </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EMF=20
SDO </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">XSD=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EMF=20
Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation) =
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">JET=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">GMF=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EODM </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">OCL=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">UML2 </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">UML2 =
Tools<BR></SPAN></FONT></LI></UL><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px"><BR>To comply=20
with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we=92d need to =
exclude=20
JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. &nbsp;The most concerning aspect of this is =
the=20
loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling package would have =
no UML=20
diagramming. &nbsp;How firm is this requirement? &nbsp;<BR><BR>Note =
that we=20
may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff on December =
14th=20
(e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).<BR><BR>I suspect to keep with policy 3, =
which=20
requires keeping the packages as small as possible, we should not =
include SDK=20
features. &nbsp;Does this present a problem to anyone?<BR><BR>Another =
point to=20
consider are those =93modeling=94 features found outside of the =
Modeling project.=20
&nbsp;For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming feature. &nbsp;Should we =
look to=20
include all end user modeling/diagramming features in this=20
package?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Rich</SPAN></FONT> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Re: Modeling package [message #7328 is a reply to message #7321] Thu, 01 November 2007 09:55 Go to previous message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
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Makes sense to me, Ian. Thanks for the clarification.

I suggest we (finally) decide up what we
Re: Modeling package [message #575671 is a reply to message #6599] Wed, 31 October 2007 13:07 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 25949
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
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Rich,

I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components. I think
it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to the
Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the modeling package.
There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components that should
be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...

The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too. Source code is awfully
useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating code
that extends the framework and will likely find themselves handicapped
without the framework source code.

We ought to talk to the STP folks about including BPMN too...


Richard Gronback wrote:
> We've been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested,
> I'm posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its
> proposal and definition.
>
> In accordance with the proposed policies
> ( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),
> < http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,>
> it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
> under the "Models and Model Development" category of Europa/Ganymede
> (and their dependencies). This would be:
>
> * EMF Runtime
> * EMF SDO
> * XSD
> * EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)
> * JET
> * GMF
> * EODM
> * OCL
> * UML2
> * UML2 Tools
>
>
> To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we'd
> need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning aspect
> of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling
> package would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this requirement?
>
> Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff
> on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).
>
> I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages
> as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this
> present a problem to anyone?
>
> Another point to consider are those "modeling" features found outside
> of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming
> feature. Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming
> features in this package?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich


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Rich,<br>
<br>
I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components.&nbsp; I
think it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to
the Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the&nbsp; modeling package.&nbsp;
There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components that should
be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...<br>
<br>
The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too.&nbsp; Source code is awfully
useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating
code that extends the framework and will likely find themselves
handicapped without the framework source code.<br>
<br>
We ought to talk to the STP folks about including BPMN too...<br>
<br>
<br>
Richard Gronback wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:C34DE38C.1EA92%25richard.gronback@borland.com"
type="cite">
<title>Modeling package</title>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 12px;">We&#8217;ve
been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested, I&#8217;m
posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its
proposal and definition.<br>
<br>
In accordance with the proposed policies (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href=" http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,"> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),</a>
it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
under the &#8220;Models and Model Development&#8221; category of Europa/Ganymede
(and their dependencies). &nbsp;This would be:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<ul>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EMF Runtime
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EMF SDO
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">XSD
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EMF Data Integrity Frameworks
(Query/Transaction/Validation)
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">JET
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">GMF
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">EODM
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">OCL
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">UML2
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">UML2 Tools<br>
</span></font></li>
</ul>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br>
To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we&#8217;d
need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. &nbsp;The most concerning aspect
of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling
package would have no UML diagramming. &nbsp;How firm is this requirement? &nbsp;<br>
<br>
Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff
on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).<br>
<br>
I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages as
small as possible, we should not include SDK features. &nbsp;Does this
present a problem to anyone?<br>
<br>
Another point to consider are those &#8220;modeling&#8221; features found outside
of the Modeling project. &nbsp;For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming
feature. &nbsp;Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming
features in this package?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Rich</span></font>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------020708090001080501030800--
Re: Modeling package [message #575719 is a reply to message #6621] Wed, 31 October 2007 15:08 Go to previous message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric Rizzo
Messages: 2207
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Ed Merks wrote:
> Rich,
>
> I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components. I think
> it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to the
> Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the modeling package.
> There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components that should
> be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...

Doesn't EMF "core" use JET for its code generation already? In other
words, if you're already including EMF doesn't that mean you are getting
JET (even though it is <1.0)?


> The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too. Source code is awfully
> useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating code
> that extends the framework and will likely find themselves handicapped
> without the framework source code.

I'll second that - I would never want to work on an EMF-based project
without having the EMF code handy. Debugging would be nigh impossible.

Eric




> Richard Gronback wrote:
>> We’ve been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested,
>> I’m posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its
>> proposal and definition.
>>
>> In accordance with the proposed policies
>> ( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),
>> < http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,>
>> it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
>> under the “Models and Model Development” category of Europa/Ganymede
>> (and their dependencies). This would be:
>>
>> * EMF Runtime
>> * EMF SDO
>> * XSD
>> * EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)
>> * JET
>> * GMF
>> * EODM
>> * OCL
>> * UML2
>> * UML2 Tools
>>
>>
>> To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we’d
>> need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning aspect
>> of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling
>> package would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this requirement?
>>
>> Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff
>> on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).
>>
>> I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages
>> as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this
>> present a problem to anyone?
>>
>> Another point to consider are those “modeling” features found outside
>> of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming
>> feature. Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming
>> features in this package?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rich
>
Re: Modeling package [message #575764 is a reply to message #6640] Wed, 31 October 2007 15:25 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 25949
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Eric,

EMF is still using its own local version of JET rather than reusing the
JET project's version.

I personally find myself extremely frustrated when I debug and can't see
code for everything on the stack. So I think that excluding the SDK
likely makes sense for most packages, but probably doesn't make so much
sense for tools used to generate code that extends a framework.


Eric Rizzo wrote:
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> Rich,
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't be happy to exclude incubating components. I
>> think it should be sufficient that any component that's conforming to
>> the Ganymede rules be eligible for inclusion in the modeling
>> package. There are an awful lot of valuable and cool EMFT components
>> that should be included and it would be silly to exclude the UMLTools...
>
> Doesn't EMF "core" use JET for its code generation already? In other
> words, if you're already including EMF doesn't that mean you are
> getting JET (even though it is <1.0)?
>
>
>> The SDK issue is a bit of a tricky one too. Source code is awfully
>> useful when such a large percentage of the users will be generating
>> code that extends the framework and will likely find themselves
>> handicapped without the framework source code.
>
> I'll second that - I would never want to work on an EMF-based project
> without having the EMF code handy. Debugging would be nigh impossible.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>> Richard Gronback wrote:
>>> We’ve been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as
>>> suggested, I’m posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move
>>> ahead with its proposal and definition.
>>>
>>> In accordance with the proposed policies
>>> ( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html),
>>> < http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00100.html%29,>
>>> it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping
>>> under the “Models and Model Development” category of Europa/Ganymede
>>> (and their dependencies). This would be:
>>>
>>> * EMF Runtime
>>> * EMF SDO
>>> * XSD
>>> * EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)
>>> * JET
>>> * GMF
>>> * EODM
>>> * OCL
>>> * UML2
>>> * UML2 Tools
>>>
>>>
>>> To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later,
>>> we’d need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning
>>> aspect of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the
>>> Modeling package would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this
>>> requirement?
>>> Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4
>>> cutoff on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).
>>>
>>> I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages
>>> as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this
>>> present a problem to anyone?
>>>
>>> Another point to consider are those “modeling” features found
>>> outside of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN
>>> diagramming feature. Should we look to include all end user
>>> modeling/diagramming features in this package?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rich
>>
>
Re: Modeling package [message #575794 is a reply to message #6621] Wed, 31 October 2007 15:44 Go to previous message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3276690265_11284137
Content-type: text/plain;
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Well, I certainly agree on the SDK part, as all of the tooling and
generation for GMF is only available in the SDK. I was just trying to
consider the posted policy ;)

And, I definitely would be in favor of including incubating components.
Let
Re: Modeling package [message #575812 is a reply to message #6599] Thu, 01 November 2007 09:46 Go to previous message
Ian Skerrett is currently offline Ian Skerrett
Messages: 198
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C81C6C.2597CC10
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Modeling packageRich,

IMO, the 'policies' for EPP are how the EPP project will make decisions =
on building the packages they are responsible for; specifically the four =
they do today. If the modeling top level project, or for that matter =
anyone else, created their own package, you have the freedom to decide =
what you want in it.

I 'hope' that a number of groups/individuals will create their own =
packages in time for Ganymede and we will create a 'cool packages' page =
that contains all of the community packages. We would link to this =
page from the download page. Make sense?
"Richard Gronback" <richard.gronback@borland.com> wrote in message =
news:C34DE38C.1EA92%richard.gronback@borland.com...
We've been discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested, =
I'm posting here and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its =
proposal and definition.

In accordance with the proposed policies =
( http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kaging/msg00=
100.html), it seems we should create a package that includes features =
shipping under the "Models and Model Development" category of =
Europa/Ganymede (and their dependencies). This would be:


a.. EMF Runtime=20
b.. EMF SDO=20
c.. XSD=20
d.. EMF Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation)=20
e.. JET=20
f.. GMF=20
g.. EODM=20
h.. OCL=20
i.. UML2=20
j.. UML2 Tools


To comply with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we'd =
need to exclude JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. The most concerning aspect =
of this is the loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling package =
would have no UML diagramming. How firm is this requirement? =20

Note that we may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff =
on December 14th (e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).

I suspect to keep with policy 3, which requires keeping the packages =
as small as possible, we should not include SDK features. Does this =
present a problem to anyone?

Another point to consider are those "modeling" features found outside =
of the Modeling project. For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming =
feature. Should we look to include all end user modeling/diagramming =
features in this package?

Thanks,
Rich
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C81C6C.2597CC10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Modeling package</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3199" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IMO, the 'policies' for EPP are how the =
EPP project=20
will make decisions on building the packages they are responsible for;=20
specifically the four they do today.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the modeling top =
level=20
project, or for that matter anyone else, created their own package, you =
have the=20
freedom to decide what you want in it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I 'hope' that a number of =
groups/individuals will=20
create their own packages in time for Ganymede and we will create a =
'cool=20
packages' page that contains all of the community packages.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
We would=20
link to this page from the download page.&nbsp;&nbsp; Make =
sense?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Richard Gronback" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:richard.gronback@borland.com">richard.gronback@borland.com=
</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:C34DE38C.1EA92%richard.gronback@borland.com">news:C34DE38C.1=
EA92%richard.gronback@borland.com</A>...</DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px">We=92ve been=20
discussing a Modeling package for a while, so as suggested, I=92m =
posting here=20
and to the Modeling newsgroup to move ahead with its proposal and=20
definition.<BR><BR>In accordance with the proposed policies (<A=20
=
href=3D" http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.pac kagin=
g/msg00100.html),">http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technolo=
gy.packaging/msg00100.html),</A>=20
it seems we should create a package that includes features shipping =
under the=20
=93Models and Model Development=94 category of Europa/Ganymede (and =
their=20
dependencies). &nbsp;This would be:<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>
<UL>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EMF=20
Runtime </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EMF=20
SDO </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">XSD=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EMF=20
Data Integrity Frameworks (Query/Transaction/Validation) =
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">JET=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">GMF=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">EODM </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">OCL=20
</SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">UML2 </SPAN></FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">UML2 =
Tools<BR></SPAN></FONT></LI></UL><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px"><BR>To comply=20
with policy 6a, which requires a 1.0 release or later, we=92d need to =
exclude=20
JET, EODM, and UML2 Tools. &nbsp;The most concerning aspect of this is =
the=20
loss of UML2 Tools, which would mean the Modeling package would have =
no UML=20
diagramming. &nbsp;How firm is this requirement? &nbsp;<BR><BR>Note =
that we=20
may also add components to Ganymede before the M4 cutoff on December =
14th=20
(e.g. M2M QVTO and M2T Xpand).<BR><BR>I suspect to keep with policy 3, =
which=20
requires keeping the packages as small as possible, we should not =
include SDK=20
features. &nbsp;Does this present a problem to anyone?<BR><BR>Another =
point to=20
consider are those =93modeling=94 features found outside of the =
Modeling project.=20
&nbsp;For example, STP has a BPMN diagramming feature. &nbsp;Should we =
look to=20
include all end user modeling/diagramming features in this=20
package?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Rich</SPAN></FONT> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C81C6C.2597CC10--
Re: Modeling package [message #575836 is a reply to message #7321] Thu, 01 November 2007 09:55 Go to previous message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Makes sense to me, Ian. Thanks for the clarification.

I suggest we (finally) decide up what we
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