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Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478806] Fri, 07 August 2009 02:10 Go to next message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
I am starting the development of a database program using Java and Eclipse (Galileo). Having just started with Eclipse, I don't know what is available and useful as a GUI design plug in. Any suggestion?

Its probably best that the tool be free, ...and I don't want to develop any tools or plug-ins for Eclipse, I want to use one that has already been developed.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478908 is a reply to message #478806] Fri, 07 August 2009 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Lou,

GMF lets you develop graphical editors. The Visual Editor Project
supports visual development of UI's based on SWT...


LouArnold wrote:
> I am starting the development of a database program using Java and
> Eclipse (Galileo). Having just started with Eclipse, I don't know what
> is available and useful as a GUI design plug in. Any suggestion?
>
> Its probably best that the tool be free, ...and I don't want to
> develop any tools or plug-ins for Eclipse, I want to use one that has
> already been developed.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478929 is a reply to message #478908] Fri, 07 August 2009 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
I'm a bit confused by your response. I don't want to develop graphical editors. I want to use one that is already developed.

Did I ask in the wrong forum?

Is SWT appropriate if I move the project on to become a web application with jFaces, servlets and Tomcat?

Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478935 is a reply to message #478929] Fri, 07 August 2009 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Lou,

Comments below.

LouArnold wrote:
> I'm a bit confused by your response. I don't want to develop graphical
> editors.
Then you won't be interested in GMF. :-P
> I want to use one that is already developed.
Like VE.
>
> Did I ask in the wrong forum?
Yes, I think so. :-P
>
> Is SWT appropriate if I move the project on to become a web
> application with jFaces, servlets and Tomcat?
Things like the RAP project support web access to an SWT-based
application. The Eclipse 4.0 (e4) work is also targeting the web...
>
>
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478936 is a reply to message #478935] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
Haha, OK. Wrong forum. Thanks for helping, anyway. I guess we'll see about the RAP project later.

I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to make migration easier. Perhaps if you can direct me to the proper forum, I'll ask there.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478946 is a reply to message #478936] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------080208050205040802080505
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lou,

It really depends on what type of application you're trying to build.
Things like the Visual Editor Project or the Web Tools Project might be
useful. Also, you might well have a model for your data, e.g,. a schema
and could generate a complete application from that:

http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclips e.emf.doc/tutorials/xlibmod/xlibmod.html


LouArnold wrote:
> Haha, OK. Wrong forum. Thanks for helping, anyway. I guess we'll see
> about the RAP project later.
>
> I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
> make migration easier. Perhaps if you can direct me to the proper
> forum, I'll ask there.

--------------080208050205040802080505
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Lou,<br>
<br>
It really depends on what type of application you're trying to build.  
Things like the Visual Editor Project or the Web Tools Project might be
useful.  Also, you might well have a model for your data, e.g,. a
schema and could generate a complete application from that:<br>
<blockquote><a
href=" http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclips e.emf.doc/tutorials/xlibmod/xlibmod.html"> http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclips e.emf.doc/tutorials/xlibmod/xlibmod.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
LouArnold wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:h5hfnq$5cm$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">Haha,
OK. Wrong forum. Thanks for helping, anyway. I guess we'll see about
the RAP project later.
<br>
<br>
I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
make migration easier. Perhaps if you can direct me to the proper
forum, I'll ask there.
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--------------080208050205040802080505--
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478949 is a reply to message #478936] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
> make migration easier.

You are not sure what technology you want to use, but want to create a
prototype? Sound like a case for http://www.eclipse.org/pmf/ But it is
"not there yet" and I don't think that you want it, but still it is
"modelling" newsgroup ;)

You can try to install http://www.eclipse.org/vep/
(http://wiki.eclipse.org/VE/Update) it support SWT and Swing.
VE news group: eclipse.tools.ve

Most likely you will have some problems (installation or usage), so you
would like to check commercials tools (both support SWT and Swing, there
are some free non-commercial versions):

http://www.instantiations.com/windowbuilder/
or http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/

Actually if you are not sure what to use, probably
http://www.netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/gui-db.html fit your needs best.

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #478951 is a reply to message #478949] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
Krzysztof Kowalczyk wrote on Fri, 07 August 2009 11:48
> I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
> make migration easier.

You are not sure what technology you want to use, but want to create a
prototype? Sound like a case for http://www.eclipse.org/pmf/ But it is
"not there yet" and I don't think that you want it, but still it is
"modelling" newsgroup Wink

You can try to install http://www.eclipse.org/vep/
(http://wiki.eclipse.org/VE/Update) it support SWT and Swing.
VE news group: eclipse.tools.ve

Most likely you will have some problems (installation or usage), so you
would like to check commercials tools (both support SWT and Swing, there
are some free non-commercial versions):

http://www.instantiations.com/windowbuilder/
or http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/

Actually if you are not sure what to use, probably
http://www.netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/gui-db.html fit your needs best.

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk


I think this answered it. I will try VE, but if things get sticky then, perhaps Netbeans is better.

Thanks very much.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #479094 is a reply to message #478951] Sun, 09 August 2009 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: n.n.nnn

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:58:27 -0400, LouArnold wrote:

> Krzysztof Kowalczyk wrote on Fri, 07 August 2009 11:48
>> > I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
>> > make migration easier.
>>
> I think this answered it. I will try VE, but if things get sticky then,
> perhaps Netbeans is better.

Netbeans means Swing and Matisse which may or may not be better. SWT is
cool (and better IMHO) though it is changing in e4 so who knows. They
are going declarative and CSS and Javascript and such things.

If you stay with SWT, forget VE, buy SWT Designer from instantiations.com.
My opinion.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #479159 is a reply to message #479094] Sun, 09 August 2009 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> Netbeans means Swing and Matisse which may or may not be better.

I mentioned Netbeans, as in database application one can use Swing
Application Framework https://appframework.dev.java.net/ and JPA and
Netbeans generate and handle such things well out of the box. In Eclipse
it would take much effort to gather proper knowledge about beans
binding, SWT, JFace, JPA and find good plugins to support that.


> SWT is cool (and better IMHO) though it is changing in e4 so who knows. They
> are going declarative and CSS and Javascript and such things.

It is not "changing", it is "growing". e4 allows for deklarative SWT
(XWT) and for styling controls with CSS. But you don't have to use it!
The old way works like always did.
I am (not yet ;) ) fun of XWT / XAML, but declarative UI has strong
advantages in many use cases IMO.

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #496793 is a reply to message #479159] Wed, 11 November 2009 11:38 Go to previous message
Yves YANG is currently offline Yves YANG
Messages: 687
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Soyatec has published the first version of XWT Designer for technical
preview, and has decided to contribute it in eclipse. The integration of
this GUI Design in e4 is on going. If everything goes well, it will be in e4
1.0M3.

Definitively, PMF addresses the Modeling UI in large terms (not only UI ,
but also data binding and scenario),

So, keep turn.

Best regards
Yves YANG
"Krzysztof Kowalczyk" <kowalczyk.krzysztof@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h5nhrf$s68$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> Netbeans means Swing and Matisse which may or may not be better.
>
> I mentioned Netbeans, as in database application one can use Swing
> Application Framework https://appframework.dev.java.net/ and JPA and
> Netbeans generate and handle such things well out of the box. In Eclipse
> it would take much effort to gather proper knowledge about beans binding,
> SWT, JFace, JPA and find good plugins to support that.
>
>
>> SWT is cool (and better IMHO) though it is changing in e4 so who knows.
>> They
>> are going declarative and CSS and Javascript and such things.
>
> It is not "changing", it is "growing". e4 allows for deklarative SWT (XWT)
> and for styling controls with CSS. But you don't have to use it! The old
> way works like always did.
> I am (not yet ;) ) fun of XWT / XAML, but declarative UI has strong
> advantages in many use cases IMO.
>
> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617747 is a reply to message #478908] Fri, 07 August 2009 14:31 Go to previous message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
I'm a bit confused by your response. I don't want to develop graphical editors. I want to use one that is already developed.

Did I ask in the wrong forum?

Is SWT appropriate if I move the project on to become a web application with jFaces, servlets and Tomcat?
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617748 is a reply to message #617747] Fri, 07 August 2009 14:44 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Lou,

Comments below.

LouArnold wrote:
> I'm a bit confused by your response. I don't want to develop graphical
> editors.
Then you won't be interested in GMF. :-P
> I want to use one that is already developed.
Like VE.
>
> Did I ask in the wrong forum?
Yes, I think so. :-P
>
> Is SWT appropriate if I move the project on to become a web
> application with jFaces, servlets and Tomcat?
Things like the RAP project support web access to an SWT-based
application. The Eclipse 4.0 (e4) work is also targeting the web...
>
>
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617749 is a reply to message #478935] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:03 Go to previous message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
Haha, OK. Wrong forum. Thanks for helping, anyway. I guess we'll see about the RAP project later.

I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to make migration easier. Perhaps if you can direct me to the proper forum, I'll ask there.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617750 is a reply to message #617749] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:28 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------080208050205040802080505
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lou,

It really depends on what type of application you're trying to build.
Things like the Visual Editor Project or the Web Tools Project might be
useful. Also, you might well have a model for your data, e.g,. a schema
and could generate a complete application from that:

http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclips e.emf.doc/tutorials/xlibmod/xlibmod.html


LouArnold wrote:
> Haha, OK. Wrong forum. Thanks for helping, anyway. I guess we'll see
> about the RAP project later.
>
> I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
> make migration easier. Perhaps if you can direct me to the proper
> forum, I'll ask there.

--------------080208050205040802080505
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Lou,<br>
<br>
It really depends on what type of application you're trying to build.  
Things like the Visual Editor Project or the Web Tools Project might be
useful.  Also, you might well have a model for your data, e.g,. a
schema and could generate a complete application from that:<br>
<blockquote><a
href=" http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclips e.emf.doc/tutorials/xlibmod/xlibmod.html"> http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclips e.emf.doc/tutorials/xlibmod/xlibmod.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
LouArnold wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:h5hfnq$5cm$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">Haha,
OK. Wrong forum. Thanks for helping, anyway. I guess we'll see about
the RAP project later.
<br>
<br>
I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
make migration easier. Perhaps if you can direct me to the proper
forum, I'll ask there.
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--------------080208050205040802080505--
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617751 is a reply to message #617749] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:48 Go to previous message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
> make migration easier.

You are not sure what technology you want to use, but want to create a
prototype? Sound like a case for http://www.eclipse.org/pmf/ But it is
"not there yet" and I don't think that you want it, but still it is
"modelling" newsgroup ;)

You can try to install http://www.eclipse.org/vep/
(http://wiki.eclipse.org/VE/Update) it support SWT and Swing.
VE news group: eclipse.tools.ve

Most likely you will have some problems (installation or usage), so you
would like to check commercials tools (both support SWT and Swing, there
are some free non-commercial versions):

http://www.instantiations.com/windowbuilder/
or http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/

Actually if you are not sure what to use, probably
http://www.netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/gui-db.html fit your needs best.

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617752 is a reply to message #478949] Fri, 07 August 2009 15:58 Go to previous message
Lou Arnold is currently offline Lou Arnold
Messages: 16
Registered: August 2009
Junior Member
Krzysztof Kowalczyk wrote on Fri, 07 August 2009 11:48
> > I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
> > make migration easier.
>
> You are not sure what technology you want to use, but want to create a
> prototype? Sound like a case for http://www.eclipse.org/pmf/ But it is
> "not there yet" and I don't think that you want it, but still it is
> "modelling" newsgroup ;)
>
> You can try to install http://www.eclipse.org/vep/
> (http://wiki.eclipse.org/VE/Update) it support SWT and Swing.
> VE news group: eclipse.tools.ve
>
> Most likely you will have some problems (installation or usage), so you
> would like to check commercials tools (both support SWT and Swing, there
> are some free non-commercial versions):
>
> http://www.instantiations.com/windowbuilder/
> or http://www.cloudgarden.com/jigloo/
>
> Actually if you are not sure what to use, probably
> http://www.netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/gui-db.html fit your needs best.
>
> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk


I think this answered it. I will try VE, but if things get sticky then, perhaps Netbeans is better.

Thanks very much.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617754 is a reply to message #617752] Sun, 09 August 2009 04:14 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: n.n.nnn

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:58:27 -0400, LouArnold wrote:

> Krzysztof Kowalczyk wrote on Fri, 07 August 2009 11:48
>> > I just wanted to ask what to start the prototype with SWT or Swing to
>> > make migration easier.
>>
> I think this answered it. I will try VE, but if things get sticky then,
> perhaps Netbeans is better.

Netbeans means Swing and Matisse which may or may not be better. SWT is
cool (and better IMHO) though it is changing in e4 so who knows. They
are going declarative and CSS and Javascript and such things.

If you stay with SWT, forget VE, buy SWT Designer from instantiations.com.
My opinion.
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #617757 is a reply to message #479094] Sun, 09 August 2009 22:16 Go to previous message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> Netbeans means Swing and Matisse which may or may not be better.

I mentioned Netbeans, as in database application one can use Swing
Application Framework https://appframework.dev.java.net/ and JPA and
Netbeans generate and handle such things well out of the box. In Eclipse
it would take much effort to gather proper knowledge about beans
binding, SWT, JFace, JPA and find good plugins to support that.


> SWT is cool (and better IMHO) though it is changing in e4 so who knows. They
> are going declarative and CSS and Javascript and such things.

It is not "changing", it is "growing". e4 allows for deklarative SWT
(XWT) and for styling controls with CSS. But you don't have to use it!
The old way works like always did.
I am (not yet ;) ) fun of XWT / XAML, but declarative UI has strong
advantages in many use cases IMO.

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Help: Advice on GUI Designer to choose? [message #618458 is a reply to message #479159] Wed, 11 November 2009 11:38 Go to previous message
Yves YANG is currently offline Yves YANG
Messages: 687
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Soyatec has published the first version of XWT Designer for technical
preview, and has decided to contribute it in eclipse. The integration of
this GUI Design in e4 is on going. If everything goes well, it will be in e4
1.0M3.

Definitively, PMF addresses the Modeling UI in large terms (not only UI ,
but also data binding and scenario),

So, keep turn.

Best regards
Yves YANG
"Krzysztof Kowalczyk" <kowalczyk.krzysztof@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h5nhrf$s68$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> Netbeans means Swing and Matisse which may or may not be better.
>
> I mentioned Netbeans, as in database application one can use Swing
> Application Framework https://appframework.dev.java.net/ and JPA and
> Netbeans generate and handle such things well out of the box. In Eclipse
> it would take much effort to gather proper knowledge about beans binding,
> SWT, JFace, JPA and find good plugins to support that.
>
>
>> SWT is cool (and better IMHO) though it is changing in e4 so who knows.
>> They
>> are going declarative and CSS and Javascript and such things.
>
> It is not "changing", it is "growing". e4 allows for deklarative SWT (XWT)
> and for styling controls with CSS. But you don't have to use it! The old
> way works like always did.
> I am (not yet ;) ) fun of XWT / XAML, but declarative UI has strong
> advantages in many use cases IMO.
>
> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk
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