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Home » Eclipse Projects » JavaServer Faces » [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments
[Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #475762] Mon, 07 April 2008 17:19 Go to next message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
A proposal for a new component (Texo) under the EMFT project has been
posted to the EMFT wiki (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Texo).

The goal of the proposed Texo project is to provide model and template
driven development technology for web application environments. Texo
will provide a toolset and a set of standard templates for generating
most artifacts of a web application. Initially the focus is on
generating JSF web applications and the related artifacts: annotated
java beans, ui backing beans, JSF pages, JSF navigation, bean
configuration and property files for i18n. Texo will be based on and use
components currently present in the EMF, EMFT, M2T projects.

I am looking forward to your comments or feedback on this new proposal.

Martin Taal

--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application develop [message #475764 is a reply to message #475762] Mon, 07 April 2008 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raghu Srinivasan is currently offline Raghu Srinivasan
Messages: 265
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Martin,

This is a very interesting proposal. We would definitely be interested in
providing input on this. Is there a bugzilla for us to comment on?

Thanks
Raghu Srinivasan
Project Lead - JSF Tools Project


Raghu Srinivasan,
Project Lead - JSF
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application develop [message #475805 is a reply to message #475764] Tue, 08 April 2008 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Raghu,
Thanks for your interest. I am looking forward to any input or feedback you or others may have.

I created a bugzilla for more detailed discussions:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=226080

gr. Martin

Raghu Srinivasan wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> This is a very interesting proposal. We would definitely be interested
> in providing input on this. Is there a bugzilla for us to comment on?
>
> Thanks
> Raghu Srinivasan
> Project Lead - JSF Tools Project
>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #475818 is a reply to message #475762] Wed, 16 April 2008 07:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Friese is currently offline Peter Friese
Messages: 30
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Martin,

indeed avery interesting proposal. Here are some thoughts:

1) How about adding RCP support? If the backend architecture is
well-cut, it should be easy to attach an RCP frontend (e.g. using
Spring HTTP remoting). 2) To me, the proposal sounds like a generator
"cartridge". I bet there are quite a number of people out there who
would come up with their own cartridges for other technology stacks.
So it might be worthwhile considering to create a higher-level project
for cartridges. Besides, it might be a good idea to mantion in the
proposal that Texo is a cartridge. 3) Did you consider writing a
textual DSL for Texo? Using Xtext, it is quite easy to create usable
textual DSLs in short time.

Peter


--

I'm trying a new usenet client for Mac, Nemo OS X.
You can download it at http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #475819 is a reply to message #475818] Wed, 16 April 2008 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your feedback, it surely is an interesting topic, see my comments below.

gr. Martin

Peter Friese wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> indeed avery interesting proposal. Here are some thoughts:
>
> 1) How about adding RCP support? If the backend architecture is
> well-cut, it should be easy to attach an RCP frontend (e.g. using
> Spring HTTP remoting).
MT>> Yes adding other target platforms (like rcp) is great. But (if I understand your remark
correctly) the idea of the Texo project is not to define a common server side for different ui's.
The idea is to generate apps which fit into the standard way of working as is common in the target
environment. So a rcp app would/could probably have a different server side then a spring web app. A
common server side for different ui's is a pretty large topic (I think e4 is also covering this)
Texo specifically talks about web apps to have a first focus. And to be honest, also because that is
were my main expertise is. But I can see (as you) that there are many opportunities there for
following a generative approach.

2) To me, the proposal sounds like a generator
> "cartridge". I bet there are quite a number of people out there who
> would come up with their own cartridges for other technology stacks.
> So it might be worthwhile considering to create a higher-level project
> for cartridges. Besides, it might be a good idea to mantion in the
> proposal that Texo is a cartridge.
MT>> It all depends on the terminology ofcourse. What I understand from cartridges is that they are
more like a set of common templates. The Texo proposal both discusses templates as well extending
the model with ui-annotations and some tooling around it. The integration with Eclipse is an
important topic. So I am not sure if the word cartridge would completely cover the Texo proposal.

Regarding your other remark about creating a higher-level project for cartridges. I can see that
there is room for such a project which allows you to easily plugin your own cartridges/templates
using for example eclipse extension points. Or is this maybe something which can be done as part of
the ecoretools project?

3) Did you consider writing a
> textual DSL for Texo? Using Xtext, it is quite easy to create usable
> textual DSLs in short time.
MT>> Yes I thought about that. There are some separate ideas to start a project to define a ui-model
(and dsl) for describing ui's. My idea for Texo is first to use annotations in the model and
implement specific ui-model views in templates (a view is for example a selection grid). When the
ui-model initiatives is more clear and the related dsl language has been created then my current
idea is to plug this dsl into texo to drive the generation. My expectation is that many templates
can be re-used then. So the answer is yes I thought about that but I see this as a next step because
others are thinking about a ui-model.

The goal of the Texo project (as I proposed it) is to make a generative and template-oriented
development approach available to programmers who are not familiar with model-driven development.
Afaics and my experience is that there are still many and many developers out there who have not had
any experience with model-driven development (who have never heard of EMF for example). Imho these
developers can benefit from using a set of simple-to-use (but function-rich) tools and templates.

>
> Peter
>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #476031 is a reply to message #475762] Tue, 14 October 2008 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hao Zhang is currently offline Hao Zhang
Messages: 15
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Martin,
I'm very interested in this component, when will we be able to try it?

Martin Taal Wrote:
> A proposal for a new component (Texo) under the EMFT project has been
> posted to the EMFT wiki (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Texo).
>
> The goal of the proposed Texo project is to provide model and template
> driven development technology for web application environments. Texo
> will provide a toolset and a set of standard templates for generating
> most artifacts of a web application. Initially the focus is on
> generating JSF web applications and the related artifacts: annotated
> java beans, ui backing beans, JSF pages, JSF navigation, bean
> configuration and property files for i18n. Texo will be based on and use
> components currently present in the EMF, EMFT, M2T projects.
>
> I am looking forward to your comments or feedback on this new proposal.
>
> Martin Taal
>
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #476032 is a reply to message #476031] Tue, 14 October 2008 12:52 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Hao,
I worked on Texo before the summer but I have been very busy since then. My new target date is
EclipseCon next year. My goal is to release a first version before that.
I feel akward for the delay but my normal work, Teneo and some CDO work has kept me too busy.

gr. Martin

Hao Zhang wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> I'm very interested in this component, when will we be able to try it?
>
> Martin Taal Wrote:
>> A proposal for a new component (Texo) under the EMFT project has been
>> posted to the EMFT wiki (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Texo).
>>
>> The goal of the proposed Texo project is to provide model and template
>> driven development technology for web application environments. Texo
>> will provide a toolset and a set of standard templates for generating
>> most artifacts of a web application. Initially the focus is on
>> generating JSF web applications and the related artifacts: annotated
>> java beans, ui backing beans, JSF pages, JSF navigation, bean
>> configuration and property files for i18n. Texo will be based on and
>> use components currently present in the EMF, EMFT, M2T projects.
>>
>> I am looking forward to your comments or feedback on this new proposal.
>>
>> Martin Taal
>>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Cell: +31 (0)6 288 48 943
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application develop [message #617704 is a reply to message #475762] Mon, 07 April 2008 18:31 Go to previous message
Raghu Srinivasan is currently offline Raghu Srinivasan
Messages: 265
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Martin,

This is a very interesting proposal. We would definitely be interested in
providing input on this. Is there a bugzilla for us to comment on?

Thanks
Raghu Srinivasan
Project Lead - JSF Tools Project


Raghu Srinivasan,
Project Lead - JSF
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application develop [message #617705 is a reply to message #475764] Tue, 08 April 2008 03:27 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Raghu,
Thanks for your interest. I am looking forward to any input or feedback you or others may have.

I created a bugzilla for more detailed discussions:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=226080

gr. Martin

Raghu Srinivasan wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> This is a very interesting proposal. We would definitely be interested
> in providing input on this. Is there a bugzilla for us to comment on?
>
> Thanks
> Raghu Srinivasan
> Project Lead - JSF Tools Project
>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #617718 is a reply to message #475762] Wed, 16 April 2008 07:02 Go to previous message
Peter Friese is currently offline Peter Friese
Messages: 30
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Martin,

indeed avery interesting proposal. Here are some thoughts:

1) How about adding RCP support? If the backend architecture is
well-cut, it should be easy to attach an RCP frontend (e.g. using
Spring HTTP remoting). 2) To me, the proposal sounds like a generator
"cartridge". I bet there are quite a number of people out there who
would come up with their own cartridges for other technology stacks.
So it might be worthwhile considering to create a higher-level project
for cartridges. Besides, it might be a good idea to mantion in the
proposal that Texo is a cartridge. 3) Did you consider writing a
textual DSL for Texo? Using Xtext, it is quite easy to create usable
textual DSLs in short time.

Peter


--

I'm trying a new usenet client for Mac, Nemo OS X.
You can download it at http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #617719 is a reply to message #475818] Wed, 16 April 2008 08:05 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your feedback, it surely is an interesting topic, see my comments below.

gr. Martin

Peter Friese wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> indeed avery interesting proposal. Here are some thoughts:
>
> 1) How about adding RCP support? If the backend architecture is
> well-cut, it should be easy to attach an RCP frontend (e.g. using
> Spring HTTP remoting).
MT>> Yes adding other target platforms (like rcp) is great. But (if I understand your remark
correctly) the idea of the Texo project is not to define a common server side for different ui's.
The idea is to generate apps which fit into the standard way of working as is common in the target
environment. So a rcp app would/could probably have a different server side then a spring web app. A
common server side for different ui's is a pretty large topic (I think e4 is also covering this)
Texo specifically talks about web apps to have a first focus. And to be honest, also because that is
were my main expertise is. But I can see (as you) that there are many opportunities there for
following a generative approach.

2) To me, the proposal sounds like a generator
> "cartridge". I bet there are quite a number of people out there who
> would come up with their own cartridges for other technology stacks.
> So it might be worthwhile considering to create a higher-level project
> for cartridges. Besides, it might be a good idea to mantion in the
> proposal that Texo is a cartridge.
MT>> It all depends on the terminology ofcourse. What I understand from cartridges is that they are
more like a set of common templates. The Texo proposal both discusses templates as well extending
the model with ui-annotations and some tooling around it. The integration with Eclipse is an
important topic. So I am not sure if the word cartridge would completely cover the Texo proposal.

Regarding your other remark about creating a higher-level project for cartridges. I can see that
there is room for such a project which allows you to easily plugin your own cartridges/templates
using for example eclipse extension points. Or is this maybe something which can be done as part of
the ecoretools project?

3) Did you consider writing a
> textual DSL for Texo? Using Xtext, it is quite easy to create usable
> textual DSLs in short time.
MT>> Yes I thought about that. There are some separate ideas to start a project to define a ui-model
(and dsl) for describing ui's. My idea for Texo is first to use annotations in the model and
implement specific ui-model views in templates (a view is for example a selection grid). When the
ui-model initiatives is more clear and the related dsl language has been created then my current
idea is to plug this dsl into texo to drive the generation. My expectation is that many templates
can be re-used then. So the answer is yes I thought about that but I see this as a next step because
others are thinking about a ui-model.

The goal of the Texo project (as I proposed it) is to make a generative and template-oriented
development approach available to programmers who are not familiar with model-driven development.
Afaics and my experience is that there are still many and many developers out there who have not had
any experience with model-driven development (who have never heard of EMF for example). Imho these
developers can benefit from using a set of simple-to-use (but function-rich) tools and templates.

>
> Peter
>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #618560 is a reply to message #475762] Tue, 14 October 2008 12:26 Go to previous message
Hao Zhang is currently offline Hao Zhang
Messages: 15
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Martin,
I'm very interested in this component, when will we be able to try it?

Martin Taal Wrote:
> A proposal for a new component (Texo) under the EMFT project has been
> posted to the EMFT wiki (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Texo).
>
> The goal of the proposed Texo project is to provide model and template
> driven development technology for web application environments. Texo
> will provide a toolset and a set of standard templates for generating
> most artifacts of a web application. Initially the focus is on
> generating JSF web applications and the related artifacts: annotated
> java beans, ui backing beans, JSF pages, JSF navigation, bean
> configuration and property files for i18n. Texo will be based on and use
> components currently present in the EMF, EMFT, M2T projects.
>
> I am looking forward to your comments or feedback on this new proposal.
>
> Martin Taal
>
Re: [Announce] Texo project proposal: EMF technology for web application development environments [message #618561 is a reply to message #476031] Tue, 14 October 2008 12:52 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Hao,
I worked on Texo before the summer but I have been very busy since then. My new target date is
EclipseCon next year. My goal is to release a first version before that.
I feel akward for the delay but my normal work, Teneo and some CDO work has kept me too busy.

gr. Martin

Hao Zhang wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> I'm very interested in this component, when will we be able to try it?
>
> Martin Taal Wrote:
>> A proposal for a new component (Texo) under the EMFT project has been
>> posted to the EMFT wiki (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Texo).
>>
>> The goal of the proposed Texo project is to provide model and template
>> driven development technology for web application environments. Texo
>> will provide a toolset and a set of standard templates for generating
>> most artifacts of a web application. Initially the focus is on
>> generating JSF web applications and the related artifacts: annotated
>> java beans, ui backing beans, JSF pages, JSF navigation, bean
>> configuration and property files for i18n. Texo will be based on and
>> use components currently present in the EMF, EMFT, M2T projects.
>>
>> I am looking forward to your comments or feedback on this new proposal.
>>
>> Martin Taal
>>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Cell: +31 (0)6 288 48 943
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
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