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service discovery in bpmn designer [message #374055] Fri, 06 April 2007 14:12 Go to next message
Kagan Turgut is currently offline Kagan Turgut
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.

i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.

our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which we
plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us flexibility
in binding.
(i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)

i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
user will have to do.

what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the bpmn
designer?

reading ismael's blog
(http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i downloaded
from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.

Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
file. That would make our life a lot easier.

Thanks in advance,

Kagan Turgut
www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #374056 is a reply to message #374055] Fri, 06 April 2007 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

Hi Kagan,
the version 4 is based on a different modeler, an iLog one.

We are working towards the release of the version 5 of our modeler,
which should embed the BPMN designer.

If you have questions regarding the community edition of Intalio's
designer, you should consult our community website:
http://bpms.intalio.com

Otherwise I think you got the spirit of our modeler. We do the mapping
to WSDLs by drag and dropping the ports to the pools, then the messages
over the messaging flows.

A lot more is to come.

Regards,

Antoine


Kagan Turgut wrote:
> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>
> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
> wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.
>
> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which we
> plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us flexibility
> in binding.
> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)
>
> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
> generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
> user will have to do.
>
> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the bpmn
> designer?
>
> reading ismael's blog
> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
> about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i downloaded
> from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>
> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kagan Turgut
> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #374057 is a reply to message #374056] Fri, 06 April 2007 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kagan Turgut is currently offline Kagan Turgut
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Antoine,

More questions:
When is version 5 due? Does the CVS repository reflect the latest and
greatest of the development of version 5, or are you going to check-it
in in one batch?

Our MDA platform is itself bootstrapped from models, highly leveraging
EMF representing platform specific models. I am hoping that we can get a
tight integration at the model level, in addition to publishing wsdls
for you to consume.

How far are you in defining your EMF model? Do you have a UML
representation of it?

Will the process models saved as xml files (independent of the graphical
layout) with version 5.0?
Will we be able to generate these process files to get our users started
faster?

Do you interact with SCA at all?

Is "drag and drop" the only way to bring-in existing wsdls to the
diagrammar. Do you have the concept of reading registered service
definitions from a directory?


Kagan


Antoine Toulme wrote:
> Hi Kagan,
> the version 4 is based on a different modeler, an iLog one.
>
> We are working towards the release of the version 5 of our modeler,
> which should embed the BPMN designer.
>
> If you have questions regarding the community edition of Intalio's
> designer, you should consult our community website:
> http://bpms.intalio.com
>
> Otherwise I think you got the spirit of our modeler. We do the mapping
> to WSDLs by drag and dropping the ports to the pools, then the messages
> over the messaging flows.
>
> A lot more is to come.
>
> Regards,
>
> Antoine
>
>
> Kagan Turgut wrote:
>> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>>
>> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
>> wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.
>>
>> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which
>> we plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us
>> flexibility in binding.
>> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)
>>
>> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
>> generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
>> user will have to do.
>>
>> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the
>> bpmn designer?
>>
>> reading ismael's blog
>> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
>> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
>> about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i
>> downloaded from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>>
>> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
>> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Kagan Turgut
>> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #374058 is a reply to message #374057] Fri, 06 April 2007 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

Hi Kagan,
Kagan Turgut wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> More questions:
> When is version 5 due? Does the CVS repository reflect the latest and
> greatest of the development of version 5, or are you going to check-it
> in in one batch?
We tend to work by batches, though the development over the modeler is
being more and more stable. We should do a commit batch hopefully next week.
>
> Our MDA platform is itself bootstrapped from models, highly leveraging
> EMF representing platform specific models. I am hoping that we can get a
> tight integration at the model level, in addition to publishing wsdls
> for you to consume.
We are trying to have a good modeler. We have a generation API, and you
can extend it very significantly by using annotations.
>
> How far are you in defining your EMF model? Do you have a UML
> representation of it?
Yes, it's here.
http://www.eclipse.org/stp/bpmn/model/index.php
>
> Will the process models saved as xml files (independent of the graphical
> layout) with version 5.0?
Yes. The semantic model will be saved in a bpmn file, while the
graphical model is saved in a bpmn_diagram file. Just like in the
Eclipse modeler.
> Will we be able to generate these process files to get our users started
> faster?
There is a generation API that you can use to generate the process.
>
> Do you interact with SCA at all?
I don't think so.
>
> Is "drag and drop" the only way to bring-in existing wsdls to the
> diagrammar. Do you have the concept of reading registered service
> definitions from a directory?
This is more related to our commercial product. We will provide you some
pointers directly.
>
>
> Kagan
>
>
> Antoine Toulme wrote:
>> Hi Kagan,
>> the version 4 is based on a different modeler, an iLog one.
>>
>> We are working towards the release of the version 5 of our modeler,
>> which should embed the BPMN designer.
>>
>> If you have questions regarding the community edition of Intalio's
>> designer, you should consult our community website:
>> http://bpms.intalio.com
>>
>> Otherwise I think you got the spirit of our modeler. We do the mapping
>> to WSDLs by drag and dropping the ports to the pools, then the
>> messages over the messaging flows.
>>
>> A lot more is to come.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>>
>> Kagan Turgut wrote:
>>> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>>>
>>> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
>>> wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.
>>>
>>> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which
>>> we plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us
>>> flexibility in binding.
>>> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this
>>> point?)
>>>
>>> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to
>>> my generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise
>>> the user will have to do.
>>>
>>> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the
>>> bpmn designer?
>>>
>>> reading ismael's blog
>>> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
>>> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is
>>> purely about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i
>>> downloaded from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>>>
>>> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
>>> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Kagan Turgut
>>> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #374068 is a reply to message #374055] Fri, 25 May 2007 14:05 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: carrasco.ModelDrivenDevelopment.co.uk

I believe Ismael is talking about BPDM,
the semantic foundation now in adoption at the OMG,
to suppy to BPMN notation a solid underlying process semantics,
adding SOA and choreography support to BPMN.

You may find some info at
http://www.modeldriven.org/

and
http://www.omg.org/docs/bmi/06-09-12.pdf

or
http://www.omg.org/archives/bpmn-ftf/pptj9lw9aW6qL.ppt

As there is usually a struggle between process specific specs,
and the Unique Modeling Language camp,
you may directly see a classic attack and response at:
http://bpmfocus.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/loosing-touch-with- reality/


By the way, Eclipse SCA is derived from the same original work from 8 years
ago.





"Kagan Turgut" <kagan.turgut@brane.com> wrote in message
news:ev62om$qn7$1@build.eclipse.org...
> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>
> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a wsdl
> to bring it to the diagrammer.
>
> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which we
> plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us flexibility in
> binding.
> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)
>
> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
> generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
> user will have to do.
>
> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the bpmn
> designer?
>
> reading ismael's blog
> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
> about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i downloaded
> from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>
> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kagan Turgut
> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #587436 is a reply to message #374055] Fri, 06 April 2007 14:28 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

Hi Kagan,
the version 4 is based on a different modeler, an iLog one.

We are working towards the release of the version 5 of our modeler,
which should embed the BPMN designer.

If you have questions regarding the community edition of Intalio's
designer, you should consult our community website:
http://bpms.intalio.com

Otherwise I think you got the spirit of our modeler. We do the mapping
to WSDLs by drag and dropping the ports to the pools, then the messages
over the messaging flows.

A lot more is to come.

Regards,

Antoine


Kagan Turgut wrote:
> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>
> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
> wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.
>
> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which we
> plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us flexibility
> in binding.
> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)
>
> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
> generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
> user will have to do.
>
> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the bpmn
> designer?
>
> reading ismael's blog
> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
> about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i downloaded
> from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>
> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kagan Turgut
> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #587447 is a reply to message #374056] Fri, 06 April 2007 14:48 Go to previous message
Kagan Turgut is currently offline Kagan Turgut
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Antoine,

More questions:
When is version 5 due? Does the CVS repository reflect the latest and
greatest of the development of version 5, or are you going to check-it
in in one batch?

Our MDA platform is itself bootstrapped from models, highly leveraging
EMF representing platform specific models. I am hoping that we can get a
tight integration at the model level, in addition to publishing wsdls
for you to consume.

How far are you in defining your EMF model? Do you have a UML
representation of it?

Will the process models saved as xml files (independent of the graphical
layout) with version 5.0?
Will we be able to generate these process files to get our users started
faster?

Do you interact with SCA at all?

Is "drag and drop" the only way to bring-in existing wsdls to the
diagrammar. Do you have the concept of reading registered service
definitions from a directory?


Kagan


Antoine Toulme wrote:
> Hi Kagan,
> the version 4 is based on a different modeler, an iLog one.
>
> We are working towards the release of the version 5 of our modeler,
> which should embed the BPMN designer.
>
> If you have questions regarding the community edition of Intalio's
> designer, you should consult our community website:
> http://bpms.intalio.com
>
> Otherwise I think you got the spirit of our modeler. We do the mapping
> to WSDLs by drag and dropping the ports to the pools, then the messages
> over the messaging flows.
>
> A lot more is to come.
>
> Regards,
>
> Antoine
>
>
> Kagan Turgut wrote:
>> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>>
>> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
>> wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.
>>
>> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which
>> we plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us
>> flexibility in binding.
>> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)
>>
>> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
>> generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
>> user will have to do.
>>
>> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the
>> bpmn designer?
>>
>> reading ismael's blog
>> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
>> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
>> about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i
>> downloaded from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>>
>> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
>> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Kagan Turgut
>> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #587458 is a reply to message #374057] Fri, 06 April 2007 15:07 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

Hi Kagan,
Kagan Turgut wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> More questions:
> When is version 5 due? Does the CVS repository reflect the latest and
> greatest of the development of version 5, or are you going to check-it
> in in one batch?
We tend to work by batches, though the development over the modeler is
being more and more stable. We should do a commit batch hopefully next week.
>
> Our MDA platform is itself bootstrapped from models, highly leveraging
> EMF representing platform specific models. I am hoping that we can get a
> tight integration at the model level, in addition to publishing wsdls
> for you to consume.
We are trying to have a good modeler. We have a generation API, and you
can extend it very significantly by using annotations.
>
> How far are you in defining your EMF model? Do you have a UML
> representation of it?
Yes, it's here.
http://www.eclipse.org/stp/bpmn/model/index.php
>
> Will the process models saved as xml files (independent of the graphical
> layout) with version 5.0?
Yes. The semantic model will be saved in a bpmn file, while the
graphical model is saved in a bpmn_diagram file. Just like in the
Eclipse modeler.
> Will we be able to generate these process files to get our users started
> faster?
There is a generation API that you can use to generate the process.
>
> Do you interact with SCA at all?
I don't think so.
>
> Is "drag and drop" the only way to bring-in existing wsdls to the
> diagrammar. Do you have the concept of reading registered service
> definitions from a directory?
This is more related to our commercial product. We will provide you some
pointers directly.
>
>
> Kagan
>
>
> Antoine Toulme wrote:
>> Hi Kagan,
>> the version 4 is based on a different modeler, an iLog one.
>>
>> We are working towards the release of the version 5 of our modeler,
>> which should embed the BPMN designer.
>>
>> If you have questions regarding the community edition of Intalio's
>> designer, you should consult our community website:
>> http://bpms.intalio.com
>>
>> Otherwise I think you got the spirit of our modeler. We do the mapping
>> to WSDLs by drag and dropping the ports to the pools, then the
>> messages over the messaging flows.
>>
>> A lot more is to come.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>>
>> Kagan Turgut wrote:
>>> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>>>
>>> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a
>>> wsdl to bring it to the diagrammer.
>>>
>>> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which
>>> we plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us
>>> flexibility in binding.
>>> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this
>>> point?)
>>>
>>> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to
>>> my generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise
>>> the user will have to do.
>>>
>>> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the
>>> bpmn designer?
>>>
>>> reading ismael's blog
>>> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
>>> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is
>>> purely about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i
>>> downloaded from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>>>
>>> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
>>> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Kagan Turgut
>>> www.brane.com
Re: service discovery in bpmn designer [message #589255 is a reply to message #374055] Fri, 25 May 2007 14:05 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: carrasco.ModelDrivenDevelopment.co.uk

I believe Ismael is talking about BPDM,
the semantic foundation now in adoption at the OMG,
to suppy to BPMN notation a solid underlying process semantics,
adding SOA and choreography support to BPMN.

You may find some info at
http://www.modeldriven.org/

and
http://www.omg.org/docs/bmi/06-09-12.pdf

or
http://www.omg.org/archives/bpmn-ftf/pptj9lw9aW6qL.ppt

As there is usually a struggle between process specific specs,
and the Unique Modeling Language camp,
you may directly see a classic attack and response at:
http://bpmfocus.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/loosing-touch-with- reality/


By the way, Eclipse SCA is derived from the same original work from 8 years
ago.





"Kagan Turgut" <kagan.turgut@brane.com> wrote in message
news:ev62om$qn7$1@build.eclipse.org...
> disclaimer: i am just getting warned up with the bpmn designer.
>
> i went through the first few tutorials where it describes importing a wsdl
> to bring it to the diagrammer.
>
> our mda platform generates a bunch of plugins with Java classes which we
> plan to expose as services, preferably using SCA to give us flexibility in
> binding.
> (i could also generate wsdl if that is the only way to go at this point?)
>
> i want to be able to pre-configure process definitions that talk to my
> generated services to drastically minimize the work that otherwise the
> user will have to do.
>
> what is the best way to expose these services automatically in the bpmn
> designer?
>
> reading ismael's blog
> (http://itredux.com/blog/2007/04/04/get-your-bpmn-schema- today/) i
> understand that there is now a model file that is saved that is purely
> about the process definitions. but in the version (4.0.0.8) i downloaded
> from intalio web site, I can't locate such a file.
>
> Ideally these process definitions are modeled in EMF and saved as XML
> file. That would make our life a lot easier.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kagan Turgut
> www.brane.com
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