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| Experience behind Eclipse [message #258302] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 02:27  |
Eclipse User |
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Hello Eclipse developers,
in our project team we have very good experiences with Eclipse
and we would like to use it as base of our own RCP app.
Now there exist critical voices, which ask, how many experience
(in the terms of men-years) is behind Eclipse?
Thank you very much,
Daniel Krügler
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| Re: Experience behind Eclipse [message #258399 is a reply to message #258386] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 09:01  |
| Eclipse User |
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Pascal Rapicault schrieb:
> eclipsefaq.org
> See faq 3.
>
> PaScaL
>
> Daniel Krügler wrote:
>
>> Hello Eclipse developers,
>>
>> in our project team we have very good experiences with Eclipse
>> and we would like to use it as base of our own RCP app.
>>
>> Now there exist critical voices, which ask, how many experience
>> (in the terms of men-years) is behind Eclipse?
>>
>> Thank you very much,
>>
>> Daniel Krügler
Hello Pascal,
thank you for your answer. You probably mean faq 2, don't you?
In fact I already searched in the faq, but I only got the information,
that Eclipse has a 15 month history. Further on I found in the
statistics page the date "Active commiters 62". Is it feasible to
extrapolate from this that the project has experience of roughly
77 men-years???
I apologize for these questions, but the corresponding answers are
important for us.
Thank you for your patience,
Daniel
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| Re: Experience behind Eclipse [message #258542 is a reply to message #258399] |
Mon, 05 July 2004 18:25 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: pascal.ibm.canada
I'm not sure what you meant by experience.
Basically some of the team members developping eclipse have been
developping IDEs, VMs and such since late 80's (Visual age smalltalk,
visual age java, visual age micro edition, see faq #3 - Where did
Eclipse come from?).
I don't know the numbers of developers that were involved in these
projects, but be sure that we did not improvise ourselved platform
developers.
You can also look at the bios of the PMC members to see that the people
leading the platform are not new to the business either.
If your question is to know whether it is risky to ship on top of
eclipse RCP, note that there is already several companies shipping
products on top of eclipse including IBM with the new Lotus Workplace.
There is also all the experience of the members of the eclipse
consortiums as well as the experience of the community. It is also key
to note that the experience of the eclispe project is also the
experience *you* bring in by participating in discussions, contributing
code, leading projects, etc.
PaScaL
Daniel Krügler wrote:
>
>
> Pascal Rapicault schrieb:
>
>> eclipsefaq.org
>> See faq 3.
>>
>> PaScaL
>>
>> Daniel Krügler wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Eclipse developers,
>>>
>>> in our project team we have very good experiences with Eclipse
>>> and we would like to use it as base of our own RCP app.
>>>
>>> Now there exist critical voices, which ask, how many experience
>>> (in the terms of men-years) is behind Eclipse?
>>>
>>> Thank you very much,
>>>
>>> Daniel Krügler
>
>
>
> Hello Pascal,
>
> thank you for your answer. You probably mean faq 2, don't you?
> In fact I already searched in the faq, but I only got the information,
> that Eclipse has a 15 month history. Further on I found in the
> statistics page the date "Active commiters 62". Is it feasible to
> extrapolate from this that the project has experience of roughly
> 77 men-years???
>
> I apologize for these questions, but the corresponding answers are
> important for us.
>
> Thank you for your patience,
>
> Daniel
>
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| Re: Experience behind Eclipse [message #258623 is a reply to message #258542] |
Tue, 06 July 2004 04:31 |
| Eclipse User |
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Hello Pascal Rapicault,
Pascal Rapicault schrieb:
> I'm not sure what you meant by experience.
> Basically some of the team members developping eclipse have been
> developping IDEs, VMs and such since late 80's (Visual age smalltalk,
> visual age java, visual age micro edition, see faq #3 - Where did
> Eclipse come from?).
>
> I don't know the numbers of developers that were involved in these
> projects, but be sure that we did not improvise ourselved platform
> developers.
> You can also look at the bios of the PMC members to see that the people
> leading the platform are not new to the business either.
>
> If your question is to know whether it is risky to ship on top of
> eclipse RCP, note that there is already several companies shipping
> products on top of eclipse including IBM with the new Lotus Workplace.
>
> There is also all the experience of the members of the eclipse
> consortiums as well as the experience of the community. It is also key
> to note that the experience of the eclispe project is also the
> experience *you* bring in by participating in discussions, contributing
> code, leading projects, etc.
I indeed know of the quality of the "staff" working on the Eclipse
project and I for sure wont say anything against them - Eclipse is a
really great project and I would like to thank all contributors for
their personal input to realize that!
But since managers often ask for some describing number (in this
case men-years) which are behind Eclispe I just wanted to know whether
there exist some rough estimate concerning this number of men-years. Now
its obvious, that linearly extrapolating from a given number of workers
and the project's lifetime bases on the assumption, that the number of
workers is (roughly) constant, so my guess from the statistics page
might be absolutely wrong.
Does there exist any estimate concerning this number?
Thank you very much,
Daniel
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| Re: Experience behind Eclipse [message #259103 is a reply to message #258892] |
Wed, 07 July 2004 08:12 |
| Eclipse User |
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Hello Martin Möbius,
Martin Möbius schrieb:
>>in our project team we have very good experiences with Eclipse
>>and we would like to use it as base of our own RCP app.
>
>
> What is the alternative? Write it from scratch I assume.
>
The alternatives are manifold, e.g. using another language with
other libraries. The current problem is, that we usually use
C++ based app (which is fine), but I don't know of any such
well-developed plugin-based C++ framework which comes near to
Eclipse's one (which is not). So its seems neccessary for a small
group of us to explain, why we would like to use Eclipse here.
There do exist further requirements, of course, such as the
interface between already existing native C++ code and Java,
but currently we think that JNI would help us here.
>
>>Now there exist critical voices, which ask, how many experience
>>(in the terms of men-years) is behind Eclipse?
>
>
> Does this mean more men-years are better? The first expiriences with
> SWT were made with the VAJ microedition from OTI (IBM). I do not more
> when it was developed.
>
> To impress the manager you could use the old press information, when
> IBM made eclipse opensource. Choose the managers favorite IT magazine,
> some impressing million dollar numbers are told.
>
I didn't say that this number is worthwhile. But it can be a useful
working instrument.
I thought there might exist a simple answer for my question. Obviously
it doesn't, so I wont ask any longer.
Greetings from Bremen,
Daniel Krügler
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| Re: Experience behind Eclipse [message #259237 is a reply to message #258892] |
Wed, 07 July 2004 11:22 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: eclipse.rizzoweb.com
Martin Möbius wrote:
>>Now there exist critical voices, which ask, how many experience
>>(in the terms of men-years) is behind Eclipse?
>
>
> Does this mean more men-years are better? The first expiriences with
> SWT were made with the VAJ microedition from OTI (IBM). I do not more
> when it was developed.
>
> To impress the manager you could use the old press information, when
> IBM made eclipse opensource. Choose the managers favorite IT magazine,
> some impressing million dollar numbers are told.
Yes, I wold also recommend pointing to the press articles that say IBM
has donated software totaling XX million dollars to the Eclipse project.
There might even be some indication of the size of the Eclipse
development team, which is pretty large.
Also, I would point to the members of the Eclipse group, companies like
IBM, Borland, Rational, Red Hat, Sybase, Fujitsu, Oracle, SAP, Ericsson,
and now BEA is involved too (http://www.eclipse.org/org) . It would be
hard for any manager to ignore the weight of that collection of partners.
HTH,
Eric
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| Re: Experience behind Eclipse [message #259377 is a reply to message #258399] |
Wed, 07 July 2004 15:57 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: john.eclipsefaq.org
I won't comment on how meaningless the number you are trying to compute
is, but I should point out that the statistics you reference were only
for the Eclipse 3.0 development period. The Eclipse project has been
open source for almost three years, and existed prior to that for quite
awhile. A more meaningful input for your managers might be the list of
nearly 100 known commercial products and plugins built on Eclipse:
http://www.eclipse.org/community/plugins.html#CommercialProj ects
--
Daniel Krügler wrote:
> thank you for your answer. You probably mean faq 2, don't you?
> In fact I already searched in the faq, but I only got the information,
> that Eclipse has a 15 month history. Further on I found in the
> statistics page the date "Active commiters 62". Is it feasible to
> extrapolate from this that the project has experience of roughly
> 77 men-years???
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