| Swing looks and performs better on Mac than SWT :-( [message #225010] |
Thu, 08 April 2004 18:53  |
Eclipse User |
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Hi,
I did not find this comment from L&F bug in the newsgroup, quoting it
here because I think it is really interesting (and sad...): Swing now
performs better and looks more native on Mac than SWT does.
Luc.
Quoting David J. Orme quoting someone else:
------- Additional Comment #61 From David J. Orme 2004-04-08 16:45
The new l&f (even in m8, where it's better) has opened SWT up to
criticisms like those at:
http://homepage.mac.com/spullara/rants/C1464297901/E13519582 35/index.html
To quote:
>>>>>>
Eclipse needs to switch to Swing before SWT really gets out of hand
The latest release of Eclipse (3.0-M8) now has custom look and feels.
The default one is pretty random and doesn't look like my Mac.
For some reason, many moons ago, I thought the reason for SWT's
existence was two-fold:
1) Look like the native platform using native components
2) Higher performance than Swing
On the Mac platform it now has neither. Swing both looks the same as the
native platform and performs better than SWT. Will they please just give
it up and switch to the standard controls? Can anyone explain why SWT
still exists?
<<<<<<
I know that he's confusing SWT and JFace, but people *perceive* Eclipse
to be the premier example of a SWT application. One of the things
Eclipse customers have prided themselves in is that you generally can't
tell that Eclipse isn't a native platform application, yet it's written
in Java.
Consequently, I am *still* very concerned that we are shooting ourselves
in the foot here...
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| Re: Swing looks and performs better on Mac than SWT :-( [message #225170 is a reply to message #225027] |
Fri, 09 April 2004 06:55  |
| Eclipse User |
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Karsten has definitely shown that with the right effort you can make
Swing look/feel nice.
At a given *instant* in time.
Swing can be made to kinda look and feel native. There are usually a few
"feel oddities" which prove pretty annoying, but the more effort spent
by someone like Karsten on a project, the better than project can feel.
However, most folks don't take that time and effort. Look at Netbeans
for example, or the vast majority of Swing apps out there. What a mess.
And, one of the bigger problems is that as soon as the native windowing
system changes, Swing doesn't follow. The various windows upgrades
demonstrate this in a huge way.
This is why I'm a big fan of true native look and feel. It's the only
way to ensure that the app really stays consistent with the platform
it's being used on. When the platform changes, the app changes.
(Of course in addition to this, the platform's L&F guidelines must be
followed, which I think is even a bigger issue for Java apps -- what
goes on what menus, for example. To truly do this right requires a
configurable app that can change its layout, key assignments, and so
forth per platform as well...)
-- Scott
In article <c54n0o$kb4$1@eclipse.org>, sean_dynan@nowhere.com says...
> Luc Peerdeman wrote:
>
> > Swing now
> > performs better and looks more native on Mac than SWT does.
>
> <snip/>
>
> > One of the things
> > Eclipse customers have prided themselves in is that you generally can't
> > tell that Eclipse isn't a native platform application, yet it's written
> > in Java.
>
> Indeed.
>
> Have you checked this out?
> http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/metamorphosis/index.html
>
> Run the demo, and tell me that Swing app doesn't feel as fast as
> Eclipse. It can certainly look the part:
> http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/metamorphosis/images/elegan tui.gif
>
>
>
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| Re: Swing looks and performs better on Mac than SWT :-( [message #228877 is a reply to message #226740] |
Wed, 14 April 2004 17:10 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: hanma0.arcor.de
"Johan Compagner" <jcompagner@j-com.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c5dktf$kb3$1@eclipse.org...
>
> I developer for the mac (www.servoy.com)
> But i can say that swing only performs fast when you have a really fast
Mac G-5 dual
> Eclipse on the other hand runs fine on my ibook.
>
> And we have so so so many bugs found in the swing implementation of apple
> There are still so many. I must constantly find workarounds and
workarounds and workarounds.
> Its getting very tyresome..
>
> Also apple people are in my eyes stupid.. For example they see mnemonics
as the same things
> as accelarators..... incrediable... idiots..
> Now we have for example for every menu that we make a special object that
will test for the
> mac and if it is a mac we don't allow the mnemonic to be set..
>
> There are so many things about the mac that i don't like especially now
that i am targeting
> it with a java program..
Hm. Wasn't there some "write once run anywhere" thing with java ?? :-)
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