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| JDT on Java 5.0? [message #207231] |
Sun, 19 June 2005 02:35  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: rohitlodha.gmail.com
When will JDT itself will shift to 5.0 from 1.4?
Rohit
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| Re: JDT on Java 5.0? [message #209325 is a reply to message #209272] |
Fri, 08 July 2005 17:47  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: thhal.mailblocks.com
Eric Rizzo wrote:
> Thomas Hallgren wrote:
>
>> The ones who don't want to switch can remain on Eclipse 3.1 just as
>> they remain on Java 1.4. Switching doesn't force anyone but the ones
>> that writes new code for the JDT or dependent plugins to switch and
>> that's fairly small part of the community. I might be wrong but I
>> wouldn't be too surprised if most of the Eclipse platform/jdt
>> developers are using Java 5.0 today.
>>
>> One might argue that switching will make all new features unavailable
>> to the ones who remain on JDK 1.4. No big deal IMO. They are not
>> likely to be early adopters anyway.
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>
> Not necessarily correct. Early adopter of development tools is very
> different from early adopter of language features. To force those who
> don't want to (or can't) run a 1.5 JVM to lag behind on an old version
> of Eclipse would be a detriment, not a wise decision IMO.
There will always be exceptions of course, but I must say that I find it
very hard to come up with reasons why you should be reluctant to use
Java 5 but still be eager to adopt new features in a coming, say Eclipse
4.0.
> The potential benefits have to be weighed against the potential
> drawbacks, and this is not a slam-dunk decision.
> Remember, if JDT (or any part of Eclipse platform) migrates to JDK/JVM
> 1.5 in its implementation, all users of Eclipse will have to run it on a
> 1.5 JVM, too.
Well, yes. You'd have to run your development environment on Java 5 if
you want new features introduced after Eclipse 3.1. But even if you do,
you can still develop Java 1.4 compliant code for your production
environment. That code can of course not be dependent on plugins written
for Java 5 but let's add some time perspective to that equation.
Let's say, hypothetically, that a new Eclipse 4.0 is written so that it
now depends on Java 5. It is released sometime early spring 2006 (fairly
tight schedule). Your development organization must use this release
since it contains some very desirable features. Their product runs on
Java 1.4 and uses plugins from Eclipse. They plan to develop a new
version of their product, test it thoroughly, and then release sometime
early fall 2006 (extremely tight schedule). By then Java 6 has entered
the scene and Java 5 has been around for more then 2 years.
In other words, your organization will maintain Java 1.4 compatibility
in new versions of their product more then 2 years after 5.0 was
released while still quickly adopt the new Eclipse immediately after
it's released. I would not consider that scenario a likely one.
So again, there will be exceptions but they will be very few and their
pain is more or less self inflicted. IMHO, the pros vastly outnumbers
the cons and it really is a slam-dunk decision. It becomes even more so
as time goes by.
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
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| Re: JDT on Java 5.0? [message #209572 is a reply to message #209325] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 10:46 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: eclipse3.rizzoweb.com
Thomas Hallgren wrote:
> Well, yes. You'd have to run your development environment on Java 5 if
> you want new features introduced after Eclipse 3.1. But even if you do,
> you can still develop Java 1.4 compliant code for your production
> environment. That code can of course not be dependent on plugins written
> for Java 5 but let's add some time perspective to that equation.
>
> Let's say, hypothetically, that a new Eclipse 4.0 is written so that it
> now depends on Java 5. It is released sometime early spring 2006 (fairly
> tight schedule). Your development organization must use this release
> since it contains some very desirable features. Their product runs on
> Java 1.4 and uses plugins from Eclipse. They plan to develop a new
> version of their product, test it thoroughly, and then release sometime
> early fall 2006 (extremely tight schedule). By then Java 6 has entered
> the scene and Java 5 has been around for more then 2 years.
>
> In other words, your organization will maintain Java 1.4 compatibility
> in new versions of their product more then 2 years after 5.0 was
> released while still quickly adopt the new Eclipse immediately after
> it's released. I would not consider that scenario a likely one.
>
> So again, there will be exceptions but they will be very few and their
> pain is more or less self inflicted. IMHO, the pros vastly outnumbers
> the cons and it really is a slam-dunk decision. It becomes even more so
> as time goes by.
There are many, many organizations that stay on older, "stable" versions
of software (including JDK/JVM) well past the release of 2 or even 3
further generations (previous company I worked at was/is still on JDK
1.3, for example). This is very common. Yes, it is true that production
systems are different (and usually more restrictive) than development
systems. However, there are many developers in a corporate environment
that have to jump through hoops, sacrifice an animal, and do a
chant-and-dance routine in order to get new software installed. IOW, for
many developers it is painful to move to the newest JDK/JVM.
I think you may be under-estimating the quantity of such people (I
happen to be one of them, sometimes).
Still, I acknowledge that there could be some benefits; I just want to
make sure a sincere due diligence/tradeoff analysis is done before
making the decision.
Anyway, I'm interested in the follow-up question - what is the best
forum for discussing this decision? I honestly don't know. It would be a
shame to make the move and then realize upon release that many people
are adversely affected. How do we reach as many potential affected users
as possible?
Eric
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| Re: JDT on Java 5.0? [message #209625 is a reply to message #209572] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 19:43 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: thhal.mailblocks.com
Eric Rizzo wrote:
> Anyway, I'm interested in the follow-up question - what is the best
> forum for discussing this decision? I honestly don't know. It would be a
> shame to make the move and then realize upon release that many people
> are adversely affected. How do we reach as many potential affected users
> as possible?
>
> Eric
One good way might be to have a poll on the Eclipse main webpage
accompanied with an announcement in relevant newsgroups and mailing-lists.
I think it's important that such a poll make it clear that continued
development of 1.4 artifacts will be possible and also suggest some kind
of timeframe for the first release as both might be relevant factors for
how people would vote. Perhaps a link to a short FAQ on the topic?
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
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