| Propose for move to ObjectWeb [message #13958] |
Thu, 15 January 2004 14:33  |
Eclipse User |
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Reading all the messages of the past few days I see that there is much
irritation about the sleeping web tools project. Therefor, I want to
propose to move to ObjectWeb (it's where JOnAS also has it's site). This
way I think that we can collaborate with projects already there. There
should also be a bridge with the projects on sourceforge, because many
projects are settled there.
Some names for a web tools project like that (supposed to be for Eclipse)
could be:
Web Development Tooling (WDT)
Web Architect Tooling (WAT)
SunShine
Lunar
Middleware ARchitecture System (MARS, I like this name)
others?
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| Re: Propose for move to ObjectWeb [message #13986 is a reply to message #13980] |
Sat, 17 January 2004 06:44  |
| Eclipse User |
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Sjoerd van Leent wrote:
>>But maybe you're talking about a completely different project than I am
>>talking about. If that is the case, no diplomacy or lengthy discussions
>>can hide a fundamental difference in positions. We're simply talking
>>about two separate projects.
>
> I am thinking of a product which enables you to implement enterprise web
> application development tools such as J2EE, .NET and others. Though it
> should give the extendor the default tools such as an XML and CSS
> environment. The system would provide some default editors and other
> goodies where most developers and engineers would not like to implement
> over and over again. Therefor, as I said before, the XML editor for
> example should be as extensible as possible.
>
> I think that you want to implement the base editors which can fit into my
> idea. The only difference is that I want it to be as extensible as
> possible to give other projects that would use the XML editor have an easy
> to use API for it. For example, we should provide a namespace recognition
> system and a code completion system where others would give the code for
> different namespaces (these could be called namespace resolvers).
Well, I've been saying from the beginning that I would want the
components to be as reusable and extensible as possible. I even stated
that that should be the number one goal.
I see the differences elsewhere. First, I really believe that
fundamental, extensible XML tooling should actually be part of the
Eclipse platform. For example, both PDE and JDT actually provide
separate XML editors (the former for the manifests etc, the latter for
Ant support). Many many third-party plugins again reimplement XML
editing features. Editing XML files is just so common these days that
you can't really say it's something that is a natural fit for a web
development tools project. It belongs in a layer underneath, like the
platform or a separate "almost-core" feature that only depends on the
platform. But it doesn't look like that is going to happen, at least not
for 3.0. So I consider the implementation of basic XML functionality in
the web development tools project as something that will probably be
necessary, but far from ideal. I'd much rather concentrate on support
for XML applications such as XHTML, XSLT and SVG.
Second, you are saying that the project would enable the implementation
of tools supporting heavy-weight technologies such as J2EE and .NET.
However, when we talk about J2EE, .NET or even PHP, providing editors
for standard web technologies is just a very small part of the picture.
Of course I would like tools like that to reuse the features of the web
dev tools project. But rather than a foundation for those tools, the
reusable features would be more like mixins. Little pieces that you
could throw into the IDE to have really good support for important web
front-end technologies.
So I'd never consider calling this project an "architecture system". It
just sounds completely wrong to me. And that's why I think we might have
a completely different vision. But maybe I'm still misunderstanding you.
Cheers,
Chris
--
cmlenz at gmx.de
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| Re: Propose for move to ObjectWeb [message #14357 is a reply to message #13958] |
Tue, 20 January 2004 04:26 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: frankc-ns.t310.org
Sjoerd van Leent wrote:
<snip>
> Some names for a web tools project like that (supposed to be for Eclipse)
> could be:
>
> Web Development Tooling (WDT)
> Web Architect Tooling (WAT)
> SunShine
> Lunar
> Middleware ARchitecture System (MARS, I like this name)
>
> others?
>
Don't really care about names, but what I have been thinking about is a
generic xml editor, which should be used by these projects, but *also*
by other xml based editors, like pde and ant editor. Haven't really got
the design ready (let alone the code) but this should be a generic html
editor with lots of support for pluging in verifiers etc., have support
for schema/dtd checking and editing...
Frank C
(remove -ns from email to reply)
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