Eclipse Community Forums: C / C++ IDE (CDT) » Questions about the direction of the CDT project

Home » Language IDEs » C / C++ IDE (CDT) » Questions about the direction of the CDT project

Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52246]

Tue, 26 November 2002 12:10

Eclipse User

Hi,

I've been using Eclipse for the last 3-4 months as my Java development
tool of choice. Since our company develops products in both Java and
C/C++, I am interested in the developments of the cdt project, even if I
am not currently developing in C/C++. I have explored the cdt website,
read the FAQ and perused the message board, but I find that I still have
some questions about the cdt project, and was hoping someone could answer
them, or direct me to the answers, if they already exist.

One of the things I like best about the Java development environment for
Eclipse is the ease of use. I've programmed in Java using the command
line tools (not fun for big projects) and using JBuilder by Borland. I
find that Eclipse is a higher quality tool, that is easier to learn and to
use. The Java development environment hides a lot of the complexity
involved in managing and building large projects.

This being said, I do not get the feeling that the cdt plugin has the same
ease of use. For example, I do not know the make tool. When I learned to
program in school, we had 1 file projects that did not require complex
build instructions. At work, all the C/C++ work I have done was with IDEs
(Metroworks CodeWarrior, MS Developer Studio.) When I first explored the
cdt project, I thought it would be more like the Java development
environment for Eclipse, where the classpath, development dependencies,
etc. are resolved "behind the scenes" as it were. However, it appears
that the cdt plugin is more about how to use the gnu and cygwin tools
inside Eclipse than on providing an easy-to-use, intuitive C/C++ IDE. And
please don't take this as criticism. If this is the goal of the cdt
project, I have no complaints. I would just like to know for sure if this
*is* the goal of the project. Are there any plans to make the cdt easier
to use (more "wizards" based)? For example, I find MSDev Studio fairly
easy to use. Create files, add them to the project, go to the project
settings and tell it where to find a few things, and then build. Ta da!
I don't need to explicitly resolve dependencies and link orders and
whatnot.

I guess my real question is: is there a development roadmap of some kind
that I could look over to see where this project is planning to go in the
future? Planned features? Is there somewhere in particular I should
leave my feedback/comments/requests?

Thanks,

Stephanie Legault

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52273 is a reply to message #52246]

Tue, 26 November 2002 13:55

Eclipse User

>>>>> "Stephanie" == Stephanie Legault <stephanie.legault@bitflash.com> writes:

Stephanie> This being said, I do not get the feeling that the cdt
Stephanie> plugin has the same ease of use. For example, I do not
Stephanie> know the make tool.

Let me say a few words in the CDT's defense. The CDT is *much* newer
than the JDT. It was written rather quickly by a group of hackers at
QNX (apologies if there are non-QNX CDT hackers I don't know of).

So, while the CDT isn't as easy to use as the JDT, I think that
reflects its youth more than any intrinsic limitation. Personally I'm
really quite impressed with its current state, given what I know about
the history.

Stephanie> I guess my real question is: is there a development roadmap
Stephanie> of some kind that I could look over to see where this
Stephanie> project is planning to go in the future? Planned features?
Stephanie> Is there somewhere in particular I should leave my
Stephanie> feedback/comments/requests?

I don't have ready answers to these questions. I know that many of
the things you would want have been talked about. The archives of the
various CDT mailing lists may provide some enlightenment. Judy or
someone else more intimately involved with development should probably
say what to do with feature requests.

However, in particular I know people have talked about having a CDOM
that would allow refactoring and such for C; a class browser; and
various sorts of build wizards to make it easy to create a build
environment.

Tom

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52327 is a reply to message #52273]

Tue, 26 November 2002 14:39

Eclipse User

Thank you for the reply Tom. I don't mean to imply that the cdt is not a
good tool. And as a developer myself, I understand what it's like to have
a tool in development. My company has recently released a beta version of
our drawing tool: while it has many features, and was created by a small
team in a short period of time, the first thing people say when they see
it is generally "What, it doesn't have guides and rulers?" or "It should
have an align tool" etc. And I think "Yes, but don't you see the cool
interface? The ease of use? How it does something no other tool does?"

So as I said, I don't mean to denigrate the work done so far, or put down
the project. I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my questions that way. I
only want to know more about where the cdt project is headed.

Stephanie

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52352 is a reply to message #52327]

Tue, 26 November 2002 15:53

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: ihutchinson.providencesoftware.com

A lot of questions about the direction of the project can be answered by
checking out:

http://www.eclipse.org/cdt/

Just click on the links in the component section for more information
about upcoming features, plans, etc. Feel free to make usability
suggestions.

--Iran.

Stephanie Legault wrote:
> Thank you for the reply Tom. I don't mean to imply that the cdt is not a
> good tool. And as a developer myself, I understand what it's like to have
> a tool in development. My company has recently released a beta version of
> our drawing tool: while it has many features, and was created by a small
> team in a short period of time, the first thing people say when they see
> it is generally "What, it doesn't have guides and rulers?" or "It should
> have an align tool" etc. And I think "Yes, but don't you see the cool
> interface? The ease of use? How it does something no other tool does?"
>
> So as I said, I don't mean to denigrate the work done so far, or put down
> the project. I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my questions that way. I
> only want to know more about where the cdt project is headed.
>
> Stephanie
>
>

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52445 is a reply to message #52273]

Tue, 26 November 2002 19:36

Eclipse User

We are actively in the process of deciding what features will go into the
next versions of the CDT.
All suggestions and points of view are encouraged.

Please enter your suggestions for features in bugzilla
http://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs attributed to the CDT.
As mentioned by Iran in this thread, our schedules and roadmaps are posted
of off the main CDT website.
www.eclipse.org/cdt

It is important to remember that people who develop in C/C++ come from many
backgrounds.
I myself, am primarily a Java/Smalltalk/OO developer and prefer wizards and
UI, top-down design and I only HACK under extreme circumstances :) I prefer
the typemof development environment that you described.

There are always limitations on autogenerated C/C++ makefiles or build
systems. There are so many variants of C and C++ and the associated
compilers and other tools, that it is really easy to get it wrong and very
difficult to get it right.
Most experienced C/C++ developers would prefer to be able to double check or
ensure that any autogenerated builds are correct and doing what they want it
to.

Many people who develop in C/C++ have been happly doing so for years using
command line tools and text editors.
Some actually prefer to develop this way. ;)
We at the CDT often get requests for command line support of our tools. We
also get requests for more wizards and automation.

So ... you can see that there are different requirements for different
programming styles.

We are striving to maintain a balance for all our users and decide on
features based on the interest that is expressed, as well as our needs as
developers.

That is one reason that we really need to ehar from the community.

What do all you users of the CDT want it to do?

Thank you very much for your comments and suggestions. Please keep them
coming.

-Judy

--

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52577 is a reply to message #52445]

Thu, 28 November 2002 01:45

Eclipse User

I'm really struggeling to make an "universal" make we can use for our C
projects. So I can understand Stephanie feelings on make.

But one comment though should CDT go the ANT "way" ???. I for one will go
over to ANT, but before I do I will get my universal make to work :)

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52604 is a reply to message #52577]

Thu, 28 November 2002 01:55

Eclipse User

Gee how does on edit "one's" mistakes here !!!!

This "But one comment though should CDT go the ANT "way" ???." of course
should read "But one comment though SDOULD'nt CDT go the ANT "way" ???."

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52711 is a reply to message #52577]

Thu, 28 November 2002 09:17

Eclipse User

"Johannes de Jong" <plotzeling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:as4e24$mar$1@rogue.oti.com...
> I'm really struggeling to make an "universal" make we can use for our C
> projects. So I can understand Stephanie feelings on make.
>
> But one comment though should CDT go the ANT "way" ???. I for one will go
> over to ANT, but before I do I will get my universal make to work :)
>

Hi,

There are currently no plans to go the ANT way.

The CDT is organized and designed in such a way that the CDT itself is a
framework of APIs that define how to plugin into the framework.
The CDT team has alos supplied reference or default implementations for all
the plugable components.

One of the features of the CDT design is that ... eventually ... people will
be able to extend the framework and create their own builders (among other
components).

The default builder, supplied with the CDT, uses make.

Any one is free to use this make builder as a reference implementation and
implement an ant builder or any other flavour of builder that they would
like.

Our hope is that the more people will create their own implementations.
They will hopefully give them back to the community, and give us feedback on
the APIs.
Which in turn will make the APIs more robust and useable.

-Judy

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52767 is a reply to message #52711]

Fri, 29 November 2002 11:03

Eclipse User

thanks for your reply Judy.

It's obvious the ball is in my court. If I'm not happy about the "make"
way DBT compile's & links then I will have to sit down and create
something easier.

I'll have go away know and think about it, and speak to a few real boffins
:)

Re: Questions about the direction of the CDT project [message #52877 is a reply to message #52767]

Sat, 30 November 2002 20:49

Eclipse User

"Johannes de Jong" <plotzeling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:as8352$dsp$1@rogue.oti.com...
> thanks for your reply Judy.
>
> It's obvious the ball is in my court. If I'm not happy about the "make"
> way DBT compile's & links then I will have to sit down and create
> something easier.
>
> I'll have go away know and think about it, and speak to a few real boffins
> :)
>

We hope to hear back from you soon ;)

-Judy

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02

Previous Topic:	Problem using eclipse via X-win32
Next Topic:	HpUNIX

Goto Forum:

-=] Back to Top [=-

Current Time: Fri May 09 13:04:01 EDT 2025

.:: Contact :: Home ::.

Breadcrumbs

Sign up to our Newsletter