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Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1844370] Sat, 11 September 2021 12:41 Go to next message
Drakgoku cpl is currently offline Drakgoku cplFriend
Messages: 4
Registered: September 2021
Junior Member
We are in the middle of 2021 where many IDEs are disputed. Without a doubt, eclipse is # 1 for Java 2EE.

What happens is that it has an interface from the 90s. There are many IDEs that have better visualization (one of the best known today but IntelliJ IDEA is quite expensive annually).

Could you try to make a little more UI friendly like IntelliJ IDEA or VSC? with current theme?

I have been doing Java for many years and the concept that the best text editor is "word" does not match with having a good editor.

My post:
https://github.com/dracula/eclipse/issues/4


They should have a lighter design like the 2 IDEs discussed above. Thus, Eclipse would gain more market.

We are not in the 90's, to say "if it works, don't touch it." These kinds of minds do not prosper. Recycling is important.
Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1844382 is a reply to message #1844370] Sun, 12 September 2021 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 33180
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
It's free and it's open source. You could get involved.

https://wiki.eclipse.org/Platform/How_to_Contribute

I know that software is often treated like fashion where we see "new and improved" user interfaces that all too frequently feel like "just different but not better". But yes, fashion trends can't be completely ignored either...


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1844863 is a reply to message #1844382] Tue, 28 September 2021 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex McKee is currently offline Alex McKeeFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: September 2021
Junior Member
I like Eclipse's UI. Yes it is a bit old fashioned but it is perfectly usable.
Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1844877 is a reply to message #1844370] Tue, 28 September 2021 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tauno Voipio is currently offline Tauno VoipioFriend
Messages: 742
Registered: August 2014
Senior Member
The old engineering wisdom is: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You are free to create something new, but do not attempt to force us to use it.


--

Tauno Voipio
Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1862770 is a reply to message #1844877] Thu, 28 December 2023 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Drakgoku cpl is currently offline Drakgoku cplFriend
Messages: 4
Registered: September 2021
Junior Member
As I said a few years ago.

"We are not in the 90's, to say "if it works, don't touch it." These kinds of minds do not prosper. Recycling is important."

someone said

The old engineering wisdom is: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You are free to create something new, but do not attempt to force us to use it.


Like I said, these minds don't thrive.

I have been using IntelliJ since the same day I posted here, although it is a powerful tool, its cost may be prohibitive for some. (That's why some people try to crack it)

I think it's important to remember that even though a tool may work well in the present, that doesn't guarantee its effectiveness in the long term. If continuous improvements and updates are not made (views, attractive designs, significant improvements...), it is possible that users will look for alternatives, as has been the case with me and many others like me.

Eclipse is not used as much as it used to be and I think this could be a sign that developers are migrating to other IDEs. Additionally, the future may require the use of other IDEs such as IntelliJ in the work environment, which could pose an additional challenge to those of "if something works, don't touch it."


By the way, this is a warning for the vast majority. Don't pay attention to the 50/55-year-old programmers who already have their workplace and will soon retire. These people cannot be made to get off the donkey if they have always done the same thing for many years.


The user interface is an important aspect of any software as it influences the user experience and productivity. There are also other factors such as performance, functionality, compatibility, documentation, support... for now JetBrains delivers on what it promises.

Working in a warm environment is not the same as working in an archaic one.

Even the Eclipse forum is too old...
That doesn't bode well.

https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/t/1110589/




[Updated on: Thu, 28 December 2023 17:32]

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Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1862771 is a reply to message #1862770] Thu, 28 December 2023 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 4472
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member

Other development tools may be sustaining themselves as commercial offerings or off of the backs of cloud extensions and services revenues, thriving
even, but Eclipse is Open Source. As Ed sagely replied earlier, if you want to see changes, make the changes.


_
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse Web Tools Platform
Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1862821 is a reply to message #1862771] Sat, 30 December 2023 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 33180
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I would suggest reading the code of conduct:

https://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/Community_Code_of_Conduct.php

Slagging people in a specific age group is not appropriate behavior. If you have a point to make I'm sure you are mature and intelligent enough that you can do so without slagging identifiable groups people. I'm doubtful that someone who is 50 will soon retire, but one can always hope!!!

If you have something useful to contribute, you might discuss your constructive ideas about Eclipse's numerous shortcomings in the ultra-modern GitHub discussions, which I believe are still currently in fashion:

https://github.com/eclipse-platform/.github/discussions

In the end, he or she who does the work, has the power and influence to enact change; the critics and the cheerleaders not nearly so much. You can be in any of those groups, or even in all them; even critique has value...


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1862897 is a reply to message #1862821] Thu, 04 January 2024 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Drakgoku cpl is currently offline Drakgoku cplFriend
Messages: 4
Registered: September 2021
Junior Member
It's not about behavior or maturity. It's about the truths and the truths hurt a lot.

You can feel offended by that fragile ego and take refuge in the code of conduct while you look askance at me. That's not going to change anything. I know these types of people too well. No with me.

Random: "Look Mike, what this guy said, he's very rude"
Mike: "mmm you could get banned for saying that"
Me: "I can tell you louder but not clearer"
Random: "Mike please, you hurt my fragile ego. This behavior is not appropriate"
Mike: "You're right, I will apply the banhammer flanders!, according to the wallmark policy..."

Random: "Thank you Mike for banning this person. We are a non-profit community that strives to have a positive, engaging and collaborative environment to maintain an IDE among the community..."

Random outside the forum: "The stupid guy told me... and this user was banned haha"
Random 2: "hahah, there is every idiot in this life"

Me: "Life itself. Hypocrisy in its purest state"
Me: "What a shame that Elon Musk doesn't stop by here, if so, there would be a different atmosphere."

Anyway let's continue after the show.

In this life there are 2 mentalities.
A - If it works, don't touch it. More than half of the population.
(I want to get paid without having to work hard)
B - Do it better.
(I want to do it in a productive way that is scalable in every way)

Both mentalities are correct. A != B. Nothing happens if we don't understand each other. I don't intend to get along with those of the "A" mentality.
It is a fight that takes place from the ends of the earth.

We go for points.

If in the community itself and the eclipse developers already claim that nothing needs to be changed because things work... it reminds me of Bill Gates and his 640KB.

Eclipse is somewhat left behind in the market, and does not offer anything more than a handful of tools that can compete with the most advanced and efficient solutions that exist today. Many Eclipse users cling to the motto "if it works, don't change it," and settle for an outdated, slow, and problem-ridden IDE. They don't realize that they are wasting time and the opportunity to improve their skills and projects.


On the contrary, Jetbrains (If I could say notepad, I would say it) is dedicated to creating high quality IDEs, adapted to each programming language and each type of development since they are characterized by having an elegant design, a friendly interface that is essential to have good performance and a large number of functionalities that facilitate software development. Furthermore, although it pains me to say it, Jetbrains cares about keeping its IDEs updated, incorporating the latest news and trends in the sector, and offering technical support and quality documentation, everything that Eclipse does not do.

For these reasons, some of Jetbrains' products are a superior choice to Eclipse, and that Eclipse should stop fooling itself and its community, and recognize that it is no longer the market leader as it once was. It is not about abandoning Eclipse, but about being aware of its limitations and looking for alternatives that can offer a better experience as programmers.

It's a bit unfair that "with all this time we haven't been able to make necessary improvements to Eclipse" because of people who think like that, since eclipse has potential and a very strong community behind it that could literally do "magic" with this IDE as it has all the essentials. An IDE with these characteristics and that is not updated correctly because of 4 people with that mentality could make the IDE obsolete in the future. That would be a great shame. If this includes the project manager having the same mindset, this applies to him as well.
An IDE that I appreciate more than your salary and your work chair.

If you want to call this a lack of maturity, let me tell you that you are very lucky not to work with me. If so, it would be your last day. We are both lucky.
Me for not knowing incompetence and you for keeping the workplace. We are both very lucky. But some are luckier. But the chair always wobbles, I don't need to say that, do I?


The problem is not in saying "if you want updates, do them." The problem is in the mentality of "if something works, don't touch it" and because of that, there are IDEs that become obsolete over the years.
A good environment with an IDE makes your work as a programmer more productive. The programmer benefits, the company benefits, thereby productivity benefits.
The one who does not benefit is the one who was born and died with a programming language and is reluctant to retrain. He may lose his workplace. Totally understandable.

It's not "if you want, do it," it's "we can do it." I understand that it is difficult to understand A!=B.

Don't worry if the motto "if something works, don't touch it" wins, don't be surprised if your son or grandson says another IDE other than Eclipse in the future.
Don't do the performance in a few years saying:
Random: "How strange! What happened to Eclipse"
Since this performance reminds me of the typical person who appears on television saying "What an unfortunate accident, he seemed like a very normal person..."


What will Mike do?


[Updated on: Thu, 04 January 2024 23:58]

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Re: Eclipse with a new UI in 2021. [message #1862901 is a reply to message #1862897] Fri, 05 January 2024 08:14 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 33180
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
You've invested a lot of time on this post. I hope you feel a least a little better having vented a few of your frustrations. Unfortunately the truly ignorant people you are apparently hoping to enlighten don't generally bother to be helpful on forums, nor even read them; but I've already suggested a different avenue...

Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
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