Home » General (non-technical) » Eclipse Foundation » Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community
| Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1278711] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 18:50  |
 Tamar Cohen
Messages: 103
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Hi all --
Kim Moir and I had an excellent discussion at EclipseCon about how to encourage diversity at the conference, which started an email thread that I thought we could open up to the wider community. I am not a diversity expert at all, but I definitely noticed the demographic at EclipseCon tended to be white men, and tended to be seasoned software developers. I would love to see our community become more diverse, both at EclipseCon and outside of it. I'm particularly interested in getting more women involved, but other races and more junior developers would be great too.
Here are some of the ideas we were emailing about:
Having a bigger intro track at EclipseCon:
My young, female coworker who came to the conference told me that at the beginning of the conference she felt very overwhelmed, in combination because there were so many men but more so that everyone was older than she is, and way more expert than she is. I think if the conference had an intro track, both for overview of what are the different areas of Eclipse and then more in depth, how to use it as an IDE, how to develop RCP, that sort of thing.
KM: I think there is a cognitive bias because many of the current program committee members are people who have worked in the community for many years and thus are advanced users. Then the talks they pick are quite advanced.
Documentation:
I also still think that Eclipse documentation is a very weak area, and having a "documentathon" where people get together and flesh out some documentation would be great.
Project assistance:
I also think that a lot of the time I get stuck on something that should be more straightforward (i.e. if we had better documentation) but it's not, and I get stuck (and I'm not a novice)... and then I end up asking for help on the newsgroups, but having a "help me on my project" room I think would be very cool.
Infrastructure examples:
Having a showcase of infrastructure things for how people use Eclipse in their corporations / institutions might be good too, and having a forum to discuss what works and what doesn't work. For example the majority of people I work with detest IDEs, especially Eclipse, and have an idea that it is really slow and heavy and requires mousing, and so they just use emacs and command line and have no visual debugger (gak).
So all of these ideas get more along the lines of making developing in or on or with Eclipse more accessible, but not really focused on women. I think having specific women-focused events, speakers, and mentors would be wonderful.
From Kim:
I'm not sure how much reading you've done about how to make communities more inclusive and diverse. I've done some on the geek feminism wiki, the Ada iniative posts, and also Ashe Dryden writes a lot of great posts. In fact, she is a consultant who is paid to make open source communities more diverse.
Jessica McKellar has done stellar work in making the of Python community and PyCon speakers more diverse.
http://pyvideo.org/video/719/diversity-in-practice-how-the-boston-python-user
http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2013/08/congratulations-to-jessica-mckellar.html
As an aside, there she also had an open invitation to the Python community to serve on the program committee for PyCon. For instance, even if you were new to Python, you could volunteer to review talk submissions and vote. Very cool.
I also think that there could be more than just one woman on the program committee next year. People like Alexandra Schladebeck, Mélanie Bats, Beth Tibbits come to mind. I'm sure there are more.
I think there needs to be a lot of work done to make the community more inclusive as a whole before we get more women or other minority groups to submit talk proposals.
I would like to make this push for diversity to include some men in the community too. It is not the role of the minorities to do all the work to make a community more diverse, we need the community as a whole to support it.
Tamar again:
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to read this, any ideas or discussion we can get going would be excellent.
Thanks!
Tamar
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| Re: Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1280514 is a reply to message #1279162] |
Sun, 30 March 2014 13:08  |
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Paul,
On 2014-03-28 10:13:29 +0000, Paul Verest said:
> Eclipse IDE is not optimized for use with slow and unstable Internet
> connection, e.g. Africa, overpopulated China.
Can you clarify if you are talking about the Eclipse IDE or the Eclipse
websites? The IDE doesn't require an internet connection at all. But I
can imagine that the website is slow in China. It might be worth to
consider hosting a mirror in that ares. I have created and maintained a
data center in Shanghai outside of Europe. Therefore, I understand you
pain about the slow/unreliable connections.
-Gunnar
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Gunnar Wagenknecht
gunnar@xxxxxxxx
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| Re: Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1280519 is a reply to message #1278711] |
Sun, 30 March 2014 13:16 |
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Hi Tamara,
That's very interesting feedback. Thanks for forwarding it.
On 2014-03-27 18:50:34 +0000, Tamar Cohen said:
> Having a bigger intro track at EclipseCon:
> My young, female coworker who came to the conference told me that at
> the beginning of the conference she felt very overwhelmed, in
> combination because there were so many men but more so that everyone
> was older than she is, and way more expert than she is. I think if the
> conference had an intro track, both for overview of what are the
> different areas of Eclipse and then more in depth, how to use it as an
> IDE, how to develop RCP, that sort of thing.
>
> KM: I think there is a cognitive bias because many of the current
> program committee members are people who have worked in the community
> for many years and thus are advanced users. Then the talks they pick
> are quite advanced.
Disclaimer: I was on the PC but I can't speak for the whole PC. But we
tried making a balance between introductory content and hot topics.
Usually it's the limitation of speaking lots that forces to do a
tradeoff. Frankly, the introductory type of content is declining as
well. There were fewer submissions related to that. We also pushed
really hard to give new speakers an opportunity.
> As an aside, there she also had an open invitation to the Python
> community to serve on the program committee for PyCon. For instance,
> even if you were new to Python, you could volunteer to review talk
> submissions and vote. Very cool.
The EclipseCon submission system is totally open, i.e. everybody can
monitor incoming submissions and comment on them. We take this feedback
seriously but again, it was pretty low. I also remember that we tried
to announce this bigger in the previous years but only little success.
It definetly is a huge win for any PC of you have live feedback from
your community when picking talks.
-Gunnar
--
Gunnar Wagenknecht
gunnar@xxxxxxxx
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| Re: Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1281246 is a reply to message #1281146] |
Mon, 31 March 2014 15:39 |
Beth Tibbitts
Messages: 231
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Thanks Ian for alerting me to this thread.
Actually, I was also quite bothered by the lack of diversity this year. I don't know if it's worse this year (I skipped a year or two, travel budget limited) and was really amazed
at the lack of women there. Often I was the only woman in the room in some talks and meetings. Or almost.
Other software communities have always started out that way - male dominated - but grew out of it.
I just retired last year from 36 years at IBM in software development. Attending software conferences over the years in various domains including Artificial Intelligence, then Java, then Eclipse, then Supercomputing/HPC, every other genre "grew out" of the original male-dominated focus, or at least had some strong niches that were more representative of women, but it hit me really hard this month at EclipseCon that it appears Eclipse hasn't.
Now working for another organization (for now), and back at EclipseCon, I was looking forward to getting re-engaged... and was hit hard by the lack of female participants this year.
And as noted previously in this thread, other minority groups as well.
I think more intro-level talks would help. I agree about the (assumed) bias from uber-seasoned Eclipse developers on the Program Committee. I think talks based on education and documentation would also help.
Even as an experienced developer (since soon after it was open-sourced) , I would have liked to attend some intro-level talks just to see what it looks like from the other side, starting eclipse development now when it's already "mature."
I looked interestingly at the "Committer boot camp" talk but i think something else conflicted. A women-focused event or BOF would help too, so we "find" each other. I almost posted that on the BOF board but all my evenings were taken.
Hey, a topic table at lunch would have been a good idea.
Other software genres have grown out of an initial male-dominated aspect, hopefully we can do the same for Eclipse.
...Beth Tibbitts
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| Re: Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1281742 is a reply to message #1278711] |
Tue, 01 April 2014 09:40 |
Tracy Miranda
Messages: 16
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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Hi all,
I'd like to add my perspective into the mix. I have attended many EclipseCon NA including the first one in 2004 and this one, 2014. I am as diverse as the come: female, of Indian-origin, and a mother too. I am a seasoned dev, and these days I am more likely than anything to be keenly aware of things like being a freelancer (everyone seems so corporate-y to me) or being short (ok, I jest a bit but at 5'2" I will admit to prefering having tech conversations sitting down 
So three cheers for efforts on diversity in all respects at EclipseCon!
At Eclipsecon 2004 the demographic was mostly white male developers from IBM.
So in some respects the crowd was more diverse this year: many more different companies, many more Europeans and nationalities outside NA.
At Eclipse 2014 I was at a table with a lecturer and student from University of Zululand, SA (amongst others) having an interesting discussion about mobile app dev platforms. So I feel the diversity is better. That being said, there is more to be done. I completely agree that there has been little progress with respect to women attendees. And yes it is definitely biased towards more advanced developers.
+1 for an intro track:
I am a seasoned software dev now, but back at my first conference I was really a hardware engineer who was just learning Java and how to use Eclipse & tools in general. I distinctly remember a talk called 'Eclipse APIs: Lines in the Sand' - it was the first time I heard about APIs and it was like a magical awakening to a world of software best practices. For me the first two eclipsecons were synonymous with learning software best practices and processes, as well as the ins & outs of the platform. I feel I was lucky in that way to "grow up" with the community but it is a shame that those kinds of talks are lost for current new members. Back then Eclipse was just IDE & platform, so I know this is tough when there is so much more too it, but well worth it to find a way.
On EclipseCon 2014:
Despite the diversity issues, I do find whenever I attend Eclipsecon and make an effort to talk to someone I am rewarded with great conversations and most people are friendly and open (making allowances for shyness and introverts). This year was no exception. Being part of the CDT summit and having 2 sit-down dinners was a major help too. Little things also made a big difference: having nice alternatives to pizza at the exhibition, Beth coming up to me to say 'hello' for instance. In turn I try to connect with newer attendees when I can (indeed Kim I enjoyed chatting to you the first day at lunch and listening in on your supercomputing NASA vs Oakridge conversation). I do also give an inner cheer when I hear a woman-speaker (like your one Tamar). I have 1-2 ideas for talks for EclipseCon France which I guess I should really get on and submit (but of course one is highly specialized, for a specific crowd). I'd love to talk about beginner stuff, with my work as a freelancer I get to see lots of different ways people work but haven't thought about what would work in a talk. I do love the Eclipse community and the crowd that come to the conferences and I'd like to do what I can to ensure everyone has a good experience and wants to come back!
I'd love to help in any way I can - I particularly like the sounds of infrastructure examples (I also exist in worlds where command-line is king) and mentoring projects. I know lots of other developers who would value being involved too.
Tracy
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| Re: Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1283143 is a reply to message #1281742] |
Thu, 03 April 2014 05:07 |
Alexandra Schladebeck
Messages: 1613
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Hi,
Thanks Ian for the heads up about this thread and also to Tamar for the mention in the original post.
I also noticed that there were not many women at EclipseCon. This isn't something that bothers me on a personal level, and I've never been made to feel unwelcome, disadvantaged or uncomfortable by any aspect of being in a minority. At least from my perspective, once someone is *at* EclipseCon, there are great conversations to be had and the whole atmosphere is incredibly inclusive. That is, in my mind, a huge plus.
I agree though that it certainly shouldn't be the case that women, or any other group, feel that EclipseCon is not welcoming to them either in terms of the call for papers, or the program content, or the possibilities for interaction. I've been to a few EclipseCons now, and can't say whether the percentage of e.g. women has increased - do we have any numbers on that? Can we say how the percentage of (again, e.g.) women at EclipseCon compares to the percentage in the IT industry?
Some ideas and thoughts:
- I quite like the idea of ensuring that there are some talks specifically aimed at beginners. I like it because it welcomes anyone (regardless of gender, orientation, race, ...) who is new to EclipseCon and to development in general. Making sure that Eclipse and EclipseCon stays relevant for new adopters is something worth striving for.
- Perhaps another area we should look at is "first timers to EclipseCon" - people who are not "new" to development, but who are new at EclipseCon. There's usually a good feeling when we make all the "first timers" stand up in an opening session - maybe we should organize BOFs or other events for these people too. I know that some conferences write (or get people in their community to write) "how to get the most out of ..." blogs or articles before the conference. Maybe there could even be a meetup the evening before the conference for first timers and/or beginners.
- I also have nothing against the idea of a women's table at lunch (actually, I convinced Anne to do one at EclipseCon 2013), but maybe it would be more inclusive to everyone to have "newbies" tables. Maybe even with some "oldies" volunteering to sit on each table to forge the link between newbies and experienced people.
- Suggestions for more evening events (documentathon I like in particular) and online events is also a good idea.
I do tend against things that are only focused on one particular minority - I'd rather see moves to being more inclusive generally (which is why beginners/first timers talks and activities interest me so much). It's hard to explain, but I'd like to see people deciding to attend / put in a talk because they feel the conference is, as a whole, relevant and welcoming to them - not because there is currently a specific drive for their flavor of minority.
Having said that, if there's anywhere I can help in terms of the female non-developer demographic, then I'd be thrilled to help others notice what a great community we are.
Alex
[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2014 07:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Encouraging diversity in the Eclipse community [message #1284123 is a reply to message #1283143] |
Fri, 04 April 2014 05:37 |
Ed Merks
Messages: 33133
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Alex,
Comments below.
On 03/04/2014 7:07 AM, Alexandra Schladebeck wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks Ian for the heads up about this thread and also to Tamar for
> the mention in the original post.
>
> I also noticed that there were not many women at EclipseCon. This
> isn't something that bothers me on a personal level, and I've never
> been made to feel unwelcome, disadvantaged or uncomfortable by any
> aspect of being in a minority. At least from my perspective, once
> someone is *at* EclipseCon, there are great conversations to be had
> and the whole atmosphere is incredibly inclusive. That is, in my mind,
> a huge plus.
You're always one of my favorite EclipseCon attendees. Your mere
presence in a room a pleasure. :-) For me personally the biggest reason
to attend EclipseCons, I've attended all but one, is the personal
interactions with a diverse community. I'll attend even if I don't have
a talk.
>
> I agree though that it certainly shouldn't be the case that women, or
> any other group, feel that EclipseCon is not welcoming to them either
> in terms of the call for papers, or the program content, or the
> possibilities for interaction.
Having been on the committee several times in past years, I believe
there is always an effort to be welcoming. And, personally, I'd rather
give someone else present, than present myself...
> I've been to a few EclipseCons now, and can't say whether the
> percentage of e.g. women has increased do we have any numbers on that?
It seems relatively unchanged, but yes, I can't say.
> Can we say how the percentage of (again, e.g.) women at EclipseCon
> compares to the percentage in the IT industry?
That's always a key question. An unbiased filtering mechanism ought to
produce analogous percentages. E.g., how does the percentage of women
speakers relative to the number of attendees compare to that for men?
>
> Some ideas and thoughts:
> - I quite like the idea of ensuring that there are some talks
> specifically aimed at beginners. I like it because it welcomes anyone
> (regardless of gender, orientation, race, ...) who is new to
> EclipseCon and to development in general. Making sure that Eclipse and
> EclipseCon stays relevant for new adopters is something worth striving
> for.
I've not considered proposing introductory talks because I figured I've
said it all by now, but that's not considering the very import point
that there are always new attendees interested in such things...
> - Perhaps another area we should look at is "first timers to
> EclipseCon" people who are not "new" to development, but who are new
> at EclipseCon. There's usually a good feeling when we make all the
> "first timers" stand up in an opening session maybe we should
> organize BOFs or other events for these people too. I know that some
> conferences write (or get people in their community to write) "how to
> get the most out of ..." blogs or articles before the conference.
> Maybe there could even be a meetup the evening before the conference
> for first timers and/or beginners.
For me one of the valuable things about EclipseCon is meeting with users
of my software, to lean what they're doing and discover their pain
points as well as their desires for new features. Perhaps some type of
meet-the-experts would be a good way to encourage such interactions,
integrating the newbies with the old timers.
>
> - I also have nothing against the idea of a women's table at lunch
> (actually, I convinced Anne to do one at EclipseCon 2013), but maybe
> it would be more inclusive to everyone to have "newbies" tables.
> Maybe even with some "oldies" volunteering to sit on each table to
> forge the link between newbies and experienced people.
One should always be cautious of things that have the flavor of
segregation. Of course there are lunch tables for specialized
interests, so it fits in well with that theme.
> - Suggestions for more evening events (documentathon I like in
> particular) and online events is also a good idea.
I love evening events!
> I do tend against things that are only focused on one particular minority
Yes, the segregation thing is always cause for concern...
> I'd rather see moves to being more inclusive generally (which is why
> beginners/first timers talks and activities interest me so much). It's
> hard to explain, but I'd like to see people deciding to attend / put
> in a talk because they feel the conference is, as a whole, relevant
> and welcoming to them not because there is currently a specific drive
> for their flavor of minority.
Yes, and not every minority is visible.
> Having said that, if there's anywhere I can help in terms of the
> female non-developer demographic, then I'd be thrilled to help others
> notice what a great community we are.
Thanks for taking the time to chime in and the offer for help. See you
next time!
> Alex
Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
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