| Q: Borland contribution for Eclipse? [message #16796] |
Fri, 11 March 2005 13:55  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: constantine.plotnikov.gmail.com
I have read several press releases about Borland joining Eclipse etc.
And I still have not got what Borland is going to contribute (if it is
going). My guesses range from Together for Eclipe to some GEF replacement.
Could someone who was at EclipseCON and heard from Borland write about
it or direct me to appropriate resource?
Constantine
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| Re: Borland contribution for Eclipse? [message #16835 is a reply to message #16804] |
Sat, 12 March 2005 07:56  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: jamesdcarroll.hotmaill.com
I sincerely hope that it will not involve replacing GEF. Seems to me that
lots of folks have put a lot effort into GEF. I'd hate to see it tossed
aside in favor of an graphical API in its death throws due to Borland's
ineptness.
"Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org> wrote in message
news:d0t6d9$hka$1@www.eclipse.org...
> There will be some announcements coming up over the next couple of weeks
on
> what project Borland will be leading. It will definitely be in the
modeling
> area.
>
> "Constantine Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d0s7te$kvt$1@www.eclipse.org...
> >I have read several press releases about Borland joining Eclipse etc. And
I
> >still have not got what Borland is going to contribute (if it is going).
My
> >guesses range from Together for Eclipe to some GEF replacement.
> >
> > Could someone who was at EclipseCON and heard from Borland write about
it
> > or direct me to appropriate resource?
> >
> > Constantine
>
>
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| Re: Borland contribution for Eclipse? [message #17111 is a reply to message #17083] |
Tue, 15 March 2005 23:11 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: james.willans.xactium.com
Bjorn,
Where can I find details of this proposal?
James
Bjorn Freeman-Benson wrote:
> Ah, neither I nor Borland meant to confuse anyone. What Borland means is
> that the first versions of GMF will depend on EMF and GEF. In future
> versions, those dependencies might be abstracted through adapters and
> thus GMF would be able to work with other modeling frameworks and other
> graphical frameworks. The same way that the Eclipse 1.0 Team support
> was CVS only and Eclipse 3.0 can work with multiple repository providers.
>> I was confused about that too. In mail proposing the Graphical Modeling
>> Framework project, Bjorn writes: "In essence, GMF will form a generative
>> bridge between EMF and GEF, while a future project goal may be to remove
the
>> dependency on EMF and/or GEF."
>>
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| Re: Borland contribution for Eclipse? [message #17169 is a reply to message #16908] |
Wed, 16 March 2005 01:22 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: jamesdcarroll.hotmaill.com
Well, "inept" might be a bit harsh. But you can find an similar appraisal of
Borland and its outlook here (page 45):
http://68.236.189.240/download/images/SDTimes121.pdf
The last two weeks have certainly been exciting for Eclipse with the number
of companies coming on board.
But I wonder:
Borland bought Together, yet now wants to be a part of Eclipse in the
GEF/EMF realm. Why?
Sybase has Powerbuilder and now wants to be a part of Eclipse? Why?
CA, WindRiver.... all of these are "for profit" companies with lots of
stockholders for whom the word Eclipse is either a dazzling astrological
event or a tasty Wrigly product (possibly both).
I'm more than willing to admit my tendancy to be rash, but I can't help but
wonder what's in it for them? Or maybe that's already been answered:
"Once we've converted developers from hand coded JSP and Java to using a
tool [BIRT] we've have a good shot at _MAKING_ them use our commercial [paid
for] reporting products as well."
Mike Thoma, vice president of product marketing
Actuate (BIRT Project leader)
http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=D35F3CBE-9953 -4641-A9D7-975DA5F8D975
emphasis mine; link from Eclipse home page.
Very best wishes,
James
"Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org> wrote in message
news:d11k8u$ao8$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Ouch. How did you jump to a scenario like that?
>
> The conversations I've had with the Borland people have focused on
> *complementing* the existing GEF and EMF projects. They are also big fans
of
> those projects.
>
> And the people I've talked to there certainly did not seem inept to me.
>
> "James D Carroll" <jamesdcarroll@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
> news:d0u77s$97s$1@www.eclipse.org...
> >I sincerely hope that it will not involve replacing GEF. Seems to me that
> > lots of folks have put a lot effort into GEF. I'd hate to see it tossed
> > aside in favor of an graphical API in its death throws due to Borland's
> > ineptness.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org> wrote in message
> > news:d0t6d9$hka$1@www.eclipse.org...
> >> There will be some announcements coming up over the next couple of
weeks
> > on
> >> what project Borland will be leading. It will definitely be in the
> > modeling
> >> area.
> >>
> >> "Constantine Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> message
> >> news:d0s7te$kvt$1@www.eclipse.org...
> >> >I have read several press releases about Borland joining Eclipse etc.
> >> >And
> > I
> >> >still have not got what Borland is going to contribute (if it is
going).
> > My
> >> >guesses range from Together for Eclipe to some GEF replacement.
> >> >
> >> > Could someone who was at EclipseCON and heard from Borland write
about
> > it
> >> > or direct me to appropriate resource?
> >> >
> >> > Constantine
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Borland contribution for Eclipse? [message #17505 is a reply to message #17169] |
Wed, 16 March 2005 18:04 |
 Mike Milinkovich
Messages: 260
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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There is no way that Actuate can *make* someone use their commercial
product. Once it is EPL it is EPL. I know Mike Thoma well, and I am sure it
was just a poor choice of words on his part. And even with the words he did
choose, you can elect to interpret what he said as benign unless you're a
conspiracy theory junky :-D
Eclipse has a novel approach to doing business-supported open source in an
open and transparent way. That is not news. And I happen to think it works
very well.
What's in it for the new members? Well, the same thing that was in it for
IBM, HP, SAP, Intel, QNX and all the other companies that supported the
Foundation from its inception: the ability to use and help evolve a great
platform for them to build their tools and frameworks. The opportunity to
lead a project and contribute to open source in a way that is beneficial to
both the community and their business.
"James D Carroll" <jamesdcarroll@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:d181p7$5u7$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Well, "inept" might be a bit harsh. But you can find an similar appraisal
> of
> Borland and its outlook here (page 45):
> http://68.236.189.240/download/images/SDTimes121.pdf
>
> The last two weeks have certainly been exciting for Eclipse with the
> number
> of companies coming on board.
>
> But I wonder:
> Borland bought Together, yet now wants to be a part of Eclipse in the
> GEF/EMF realm. Why?
> Sybase has Powerbuilder and now wants to be a part of Eclipse? Why?
>
> CA, WindRiver.... all of these are "for profit" companies with lots of
> stockholders for whom the word Eclipse is either a dazzling astrological
> event or a tasty Wrigly product (possibly both).
>
> I'm more than willing to admit my tendancy to be rash, but I can't help
> but
> wonder what's in it for them? Or maybe that's already been answered:
>
> "Once we've converted developers from hand coded JSP and Java to using a
> tool [BIRT] we've have a good shot at _MAKING_ them use our commercial
> [paid
> for] reporting products as well."
> Mike Thoma, vice president of product marketing
> Actuate (BIRT Project leader)
> http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=D35F3CBE-9953 -4641-A9D7-975DA5F8D975
> emphasis mine; link from Eclipse home page.
>
> Very best wishes,
> James
>
> "Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org> wrote in message
> news:d11k8u$ao8$1@www.eclipse.org...
>> Ouch. How did you jump to a scenario like that?
>>
>> The conversations I've had with the Borland people have focused on
>> *complementing* the existing GEF and EMF projects. They are also big fans
> of
>> those projects.
>>
>> And the people I've talked to there certainly did not seem inept to me.
>>
>> "James D Carroll" <jamesdcarroll@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
>> news:d0u77s$97s$1@www.eclipse.org...
>> >I sincerely hope that it will not involve replacing GEF. Seems to me
>> >that
>> > lots of folks have put a lot effort into GEF. I'd hate to see it tossed
>> > aside in favor of an graphical API in its death throws due to Borland's
>> > ineptness.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org> wrote in message
>> > news:d0t6d9$hka$1@www.eclipse.org...
>> >> There will be some announcements coming up over the next couple of
> weeks
>> > on
>> >> what project Borland will be leading. It will definitely be in the
>> > modeling
>> >> area.
>> >>
>> >> "Constantine Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> news:d0s7te$kvt$1@www.eclipse.org...
>> >> >I have read several press releases about Borland joining Eclipse etc.
>> >> >And
>> > I
>> >> >still have not got what Borland is going to contribute (if it is
> going).
>> > My
>> >> >guesses range from Together for Eclipe to some GEF replacement.
>> >> >
>> >> > Could someone who was at EclipseCON and heard from Borland write
> about
>> > it
>> >> > or direct me to appropriate resource?
>> >> >
>> >> > Constantine
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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