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Home » Modeling » EMF "Technology" (Ecore Tools, EMFatic, etc)  » [Teneo] and SDO
[Teneo] and SDO [message #104334] Thu, 06 December 2007 17:18 Go to next message
Daniel Tuohy is currently offline Daniel TuohyFriend
Messages: 41
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hello,

We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:

1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
Teneo?
2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
with Teneo?

I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking for
some free advice from the experts!.

Daniel Tuohy
Re: [Teneo] and SDO [message #104360 is a reply to message #104334] Thu, 06 December 2007 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000509030405000909000902
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Daniel,

Comments below.


Daniel Tuohy wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
> Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
> data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
> will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
> bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
> our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:
>
> 1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
> Teneo?
>
I don't think so. In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around
EMF. It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished
with EMF directly. I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows references
to non-Teneo-based resources. I suspect it does.

EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI
converter to effective support complete REST services.
<https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671>

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077

The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to
test read, write, and delete access via HTTP.
> 2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
>
I think Teneo does exactly that. Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does
some interesting things in this field as well.
> 3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
> with Teneo?
>
Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink project.
> I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking for
> some free advice from the experts!.
>
Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of donations. :-P

http://www.eclipse.org/donate/

> Daniel Tuohy
>
>
>
>


--------------000509030405000909000902
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Daniel,<br>
<br>
Comments below.<br>
<br>
<br>
Daniel Tuohy wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello,

We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:

1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
Teneo?
</pre>
</blockquote>
I don't think so.&nbsp; In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around
EMF.&nbsp; It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished
with EMF directly.&nbsp; I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows
references to non-Teneo-based resources.&nbsp; I suspect it does.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI
converter to effective support complete REST services. <a
href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671"><br>
</a>
<blockquote><a
href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671">https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671</a><br>
<a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077">https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077</a><br>
</blockquote>
The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to
test read, write, and delete access via HTTP.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
</pre>
</blockquote>
I think Teneo does exactly that.&nbsp; Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does
some interesting things in this field as well.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
with Teneo?
</pre>
</blockquote>
Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink
project.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking for
some free advice from the experts!.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of
donations.&nbsp; :-P<br>
<blockquote><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/donate/">http://www.eclipse.org/donate/</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Daniel Tuohy



</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------000509030405000909000902--
Re: [Teneo] and SDO [message #104367 is a reply to message #104360] Thu, 06 December 2007 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel Tuohy is currently offline Daniel TuohyFriend
Messages: 41
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ed- Thanks for the prompt response, that's just what I was looking for.

The gratitude module has been noted.


"Ed Merks" <merks@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:fj9g02$kpd$1@build.eclipse.org...
Daniel,

Comments below.


Daniel Tuohy wrote:
>Hello,
>
>We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
>Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
>data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
>will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
>bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
>our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:
>
>1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
>Teneo?
>
I don't think so. In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around EMF.
It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished with EMF
directly. I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows references to
non-Teneo-based resources. I suspect it does.

EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI converter to
effective support complete REST services.

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077

The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to test
read, write, and delete access via HTTP.

>2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?

I think Teneo does exactly that. Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does some
interesting things in this field as well.

>3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
>with Teneo?

>Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink project.

>I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking
>for
>some free advice from the experts!.

Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of donations. :-P

http://www.eclipse.org/donate/

Daniel Tuohy
Re: [Teneo] and SDO [message #104382 is a reply to message #104367] Thu, 06 December 2007 21:58 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin TaalFriend
Messages: 5468
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The only thing I want to Ed's answer is that for persisting certain parts outside of hibernate you
would probably need to use hibernate custom types. So yes, afaics it should be possible (never tried
it myself though).

gr. Martin

Daniel Tuohy wrote:
> Ed- Thanks for the prompt response, that's just what I was looking for.
>
> The gratitude module has been noted.
>
>
> "Ed Merks" <merks@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:fj9g02$kpd$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Daniel,
>
> Comments below.
>
>
> Daniel Tuohy wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
>> Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
>> data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
>> will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
>> bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
>> our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:
>>
>> 1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
>> Teneo?
>>
> I don't think so. In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around EMF.
> It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished with EMF
> directly. I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows references to
> non-Teneo-based resources. I suspect it does.
>
> EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI converter to
> effective support complete REST services.
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077
>
> The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to test
> read, write, and delete access via HTTP.
>
>> 2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
>
> I think Teneo does exactly that. Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does some
> interesting things in this field as well.
>
>> 3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
>> with Teneo?
>
>> Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink project.
>
>> I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking
>> for
>> some free advice from the experts!.
>
> Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of donations. :-P
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/donate/
>
> Daniel Tuohy
>
>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Teneo] and SDO [message #612764 is a reply to message #104334] Thu, 06 December 2007 18:45 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 31562
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000509030405000909000902
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Daniel,

Comments below.


Daniel Tuohy wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
> Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
> data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
> will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
> bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
> our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:
>
> 1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
> Teneo?
>
I don't think so. In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around
EMF. It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished
with EMF directly. I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows references
to non-Teneo-based resources. I suspect it does.

EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI
converter to effective support complete REST services.
<https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671>

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077

The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to
test read, write, and delete access via HTTP.
> 2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
>
I think Teneo does exactly that. Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does
some interesting things in this field as well.
> 3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
> with Teneo?
>
Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink project.
> I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking for
> some free advice from the experts!.
>
Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of donations. :-P

http://www.eclipse.org/donate/

> Daniel Tuohy
>
>
>
>


--------------000509030405000909000902
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Daniel,<br>
<br>
Comments below.<br>
<br>
<br>
Daniel Tuohy wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello,

We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:

1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
Teneo?
</pre>
</blockquote>
I don't think so.&nbsp; In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around
EMF.&nbsp; It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished
with EMF directly.&nbsp; I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows
references to non-Teneo-based resources.&nbsp; I suspect it does.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI
converter to effective support complete REST services. <a
href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671"><br>
</a>
<blockquote><a
href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671">https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671</a><br>
<a href="https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077">https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077</a><br>
</blockquote>
The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to
test read, write, and delete access via HTTP.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
</pre>
</blockquote>
I think Teneo does exactly that.&nbsp; Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does
some interesting things in this field as well.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
with Teneo?
</pre>
</blockquote>
Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink
project.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking for
some free advice from the experts!.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of
donations.&nbsp; :-P<br>
<blockquote><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/donate/">http://www.eclipse.org/donate/</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:fj9apv$km1$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Daniel Tuohy



</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------000509030405000909000902--


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: [Teneo] and SDO [message #612766 is a reply to message #104360] Thu, 06 December 2007 18:55 Go to previous message
Daniel Tuohy is currently offline Daniel TuohyFriend
Messages: 41
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ed- Thanks for the prompt response, that's just what I was looking for.

The gratitude module has been noted.


"Ed Merks" <merks@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:fj9g02$kpd$1@build.eclipse.org...
Daniel,

Comments below.


Daniel Tuohy wrote:
>Hello,
>
>We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
>Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
>data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
>will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
>bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
>our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:
>
>1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
>Teneo?
>
I don't think so. In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around EMF.
It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished with EMF
directly. I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows references to
non-Teneo-based resources. I suspect it does.

EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI converter to
effective support complete REST services.

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077

The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to test
read, write, and delete access via HTTP.

>2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?

I think Teneo does exactly that. Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does some
interesting things in this field as well.

>3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
>with Teneo?

>Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink project.

>I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking
>for
>some free advice from the experts!.

Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of donations. :-P

http://www.eclipse.org/donate/

Daniel Tuohy
Re: [Teneo] and SDO [message #612767 is a reply to message #104367] Thu, 06 December 2007 21:58 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin TaalFriend
Messages: 5468
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The only thing I want to Ed's answer is that for persisting certain parts outside of hibernate you
would probably need to use hibernate custom types. So yes, afaics it should be possible (never tried
it myself though).

gr. Martin

Daniel Tuohy wrote:
> Ed- Thanks for the prompt response, that's just what I was looking for.
>
> The gratitude module has been noted.
>
>
> "Ed Merks" <merks@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:fj9g02$kpd$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Daniel,
>
> Comments below.
>
>
> Daniel Tuohy wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> We have an EMF data model that we are currently persisting with
>> Teneo/Hibernate. However, we are expecting that in the future parts of our
>> data model, including some of the objects that our EMF objects reference,
>> will be coming from heterogeneous sources (Web Services, other remote data
>> bases, etc). So for example, Foo has a EList of Bars, and we expect that
>> our Bars will need to be lazy-loaded from a Web Service. My questions are:
>>
>> 1. Are we boxing ourselves out of a clean pure-SDO design by going with
>> Teneo?
>>
> I don't think so. In general SDO is just a candy coated wrapper around EMF.
> It doesn't provide much of anything that can't be accomplished with EMF
> directly. I'm not sure if the Teneo's design allows references to
> non-Teneo-based resources. I suspect it does.
>
> EMF 2.4 also introduces a lot of greater flexibility in the URI converter to
> effective support complete REST services.
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207671
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=191077
>
> The latter bugzilla even has a simple servlet attachment that I used to test
> read, write, and delete access via HTTP.
>
>> 2. Is there a slick SDO project that does automated ORM with EMF models?
>
> I think Teneo does exactly that. Eike Stepper's CDO/Net4J project does some
> interesting things in this field as well.
>
>> 3. If you (Ed and Martin in particular) were in our shoes, would you stick
>> with Teneo?
>
>> Yes, I think in the future we'll see synergy with the EclipseLink project.
>
>> I apologize that the scenario is somewhat vague, I'm really just looking
>> for
>> some free advice from the experts!.
>
> Eclipse will now gladly accept your gratitude in the form of donations. :-P
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/donate/
>
> Daniel Tuohy
>
>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
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