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End of Life for Eclipse Versions [message #506457]

Thu, 07 January 2010 10:19

Ronald Steinhau

Messages: 7
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

I am trying to find out, if older versions of Eclipse (especially 3.3) already have reached an end of life status, but couldn't find information. Is there an end-of life (e.g. end of some sort of support with bug-fixes) in the Eclipse space? Or is there a pattern, that two bug-fix releases are (e.g. 3.3.1 and 3.3.2) are official and than automatically support (bug-fixes) end? Or do someone have any other information about this topic?
Thank you in advance.

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Re: End of Life for Eclipse Versions [message #506486 is a reply to message #506457]

Thu, 07 January 2010 16:45

Ed Merks

Messages: 33140
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Ronald,

The lifetime of older releases isn't entirely clear. Generally you
should expect (or should I say hope for, because you can't expect much
for free in life) maintenance support only on the most recent release
and after there's a new release, you should expect to move to that next
release for your support. But there's no general policy and I know
companies like IBM promise on the order of a decade of support for any
particular version of a product, many of which are based on Eclipse
releases.

Ronald Steinhau wrote:
> I am trying to find out, if older versions of Eclipse (especially 3.3)
> already have reached an end of life status, but couldn't find
> information. Is there an end-of life (e.g. end of some sort of support
> with bug-fixes) in the Eclipse space? Or is there a pattern, that two
> bug-fix releases are (e.g. 3.3.1 and 3.3.2) are official and than
> automatically support (bug-fixes) end? Or do someone have any other
> information about this topic?
> Thank you in advance.

Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/

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Re: End of Life for Eclipse Versions [message #506539 is a reply to message #506486]

Thu, 07 January 2010 21:43

Eric Rizzo

Messages: 3070
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

On 1/7/10 11:45 AM, Ed Merks wrote:
> Ronald,
>
> The lifetime of older releases isn't entirely clear. Generally you
> should expect (or should I say hope for, because you can't expect much
> for free in life) maintenance support only on the most recent release
> and after there's a new release, you should expect to move to that next
> release for your support. But there's no general policy and I know
> companies like IBM promise on the order of a decade of support for any
> particular version of a product, many of which are based on Eclipse
> releases.
>
>
> Ronald Steinhau wrote:
>> I am trying to find out, if older versions of Eclipse (especially 3.3)
>> already have reached an end of life status, but couldn't find
>> information. Is there an end-of life (e.g. end of some sort of support
>> with bug-fixes) in the Eclipse space? Or is there a pattern, that two
>> bug-fix releases are (e.g. 3.3.1 and 3.3.2) are official and than
>> automatically support (bug-fixes) end? Or do someone have any other
>> information about this topic?
>> Thank you in advance.

I agree with Ed, but wanted to add that you can look at the consistent
track record of the Eclipse releases for the past 5 years. I'm pretty
sure there have been no updates to the coordinated package releases once
the next yearly major package release has happened (which is
consistently June of each year).
Having said that, the question does get a little tricky because each
project is managed independently, so individual projects that are
components of the coordinated release trains (Europa, Ganymede, Galileo,
Helios, etc) may update their project features/plugins on their own
schedule. Observing the track records of each project is more research
work but I'd be surprised if it is much different than the coordinated
releases.

Hope this helps,
Eric

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Re: End of Life for Eclipse Versions [message #506804 is a reply to message #506539]

Sun, 10 January 2010 13:09

Vlad Varnica

Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK

Senior Member

Ed, Ronald and Eric,

I fully understand Ronald question and think that this Eclipse release very year in June policy is a non sense and is the reason why Eclipse is loosing more and more users.
In the last 9 years we had 9 new releases:
Two major problems today:
- Each new release is not compatible at plugin level with the previous one. It means that a plugin life is only 12 months and even less. We need 3 years to get a good stable build, therefore it is impossible to have a stable plugin for Eclipse within the 12 months time frame. The plugin spirit is certainly dead Sad

- Each new build is not better than the previous one. Eclipse 3.3 is for me better than Eclipse 3.5. The best current Eclipse is Eclipse 3.4. I have seen Eclipse 3.6 beta and this release will be worst than Eclipse 3.5 !! so what would be the next non sense ? Shocked

During this new yearly Eclipse policy strategy existing bugs are never fixed because teams are focusing on new development and upgrade and not on the quality of the tool.
Many other reasons in the eclipse decline but it would be too long to talk about it here Sad

I would like that one year we freeze Eclipse and fix bugs. I would like plugins remains compatible and EMF doesn't play to change all its core methods every year because this is wasting my ISV time trying to fix unnecessary bugs every year !!

Please Ed do not reply because it is really painful to read your post sometimes.
Thanks,

Vlad,
Omondo

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Re: End of Life for Eclipse Versions [message #506824 is a reply to message #506804]

Sun, 10 January 2010 15:32

Ed Merks

Messages: 33140
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Ed, Ronald and Eric,
>
> I fully understand Ronald question and think that this Eclipse release
> very year in June policy is a non sense and is the reason why Eclipse
> is loosing more and more users.
Consistent release schedules are clearly a problem how? You don't have
to use them if you don't want them.
> In the last 9 years we had 9 new releases:
> Two major problems today: - Each new release is not compatible at
> plugin level with the previous one.
In fact they are binary compatible...
> It means that a plugin life is only 12 months and even less.
I'm not sure how that follows even if your false assertion were true.
> We need 3 years to get a good stable build,
Who is we? Eclipse produces stable builds with clockwork regularity.
> therefore it is impossible to have a stable plugin for Eclipse within
> the 12 months time frame.
I'm not sure what type of build and development process you are
following, but it sure sounds onerous. The one we use at Eclipse
produces a coordinated stable release every year.
> The plugin spirit is certainly dead :(
You might be a little premature with that assertion.
> - Each new build is not better than the previous one.
I suppose that's subjective.
> Eclipse 3.3 is for me better than Eclipse 3.5.
How so?
> The best current Eclipse is Eclipse 3.4. I have seen Eclipse 3.6 beta
> and this release will be worst than Eclipse 3.5 !! so what would be
> the next non sense ? 8o
You certainly appear to be a nonsense expert.
>
> During this new yearly Eclipse policy strategy existing bugs are never
> fixed because teams are focusing on new development and upgrade and
> not on the quality of the tool.
I doubt that's true as a general policy. My personal focus is always
quality and bug fixes before new feature work.
> Many other reasons in the eclipse decline but it would be too long to
> talk about it here :(
Long talking doesn't usually deter you.
> I would like that one year we freeze Eclipse and fix bugs.
And by "we" you mean everyone but you?
> I would like plugins remains compatible and EMF doesn't play to change
> all its core methods every year because this is wasting my ISV time
> trying to fix unnecessary bugs every year !!
Given I'm practically the only active EMF committer, I sure must be busy
with pointlessly rewriting all the code every year. I wonder how I find
time for that? What's scary though is that this activity completely
slips my mind. I hope it's not early onset Alzheimer's.
>
> Please Ed do not reply because it is really painful to read your post
> sometimes.
You're not required to read my posts.
> Thanks,
>
> Vlad,
> Omondo
>

Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/

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Re: End of Life for Eclipse Versions [message #507006 is a reply to message #506804]

Mon, 11 January 2010 16:39

Eric Rizzo

Messages: 3070
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

There has already been one response, but I just wanted to add that the
below is just meaningless drivel, almost all of it either factually
incorrect or clearly opinionated. There is nothing given to back up any
of the claims or opinions.

This message marks the end of my participation in this thread.

Eric

On 1/10/10 8:09 AM, Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Ed, Ronald and Eric,
>
> I fully understand Ronald question and think that this Eclipse release
> very year in June policy is a non sense and is the reason why Eclipse is
> loosing more and more users.
> In the last 9 years we had 9 new releases:
> Two major problems today: - Each new release is not compatible at plugin
> level with the previous one. It means that a plugin life is only 12
> months and even less. We need 3 years to get a good stable build,
> therefore it is impossible to have a stable plugin for Eclipse within
> the 12 months time frame. The plugin spirit is certainly dead :( - Each
> new build is not better than the previous one. Eclipse 3.3 is for me
> better than Eclipse 3.5. The best current Eclipse is Eclipse 3.4. I have
> seen Eclipse 3.6 beta and this release will be worst than Eclipse 3.5 !!
> so what would be the next non sense ? 8o
> During this new yearly Eclipse policy strategy existing bugs are never
> fixed because teams are focusing on new development and upgrade and not
> on the quality of the tool.
> Many other reasons in the eclipse decline but it would be too long to
> talk about it here :(
> I would like that one year we freeze Eclipse and fix bugs. I would like
> plugins remains compatible and EMF doesn't play to change all its core
> methods every year because this is wasting my ISV time trying to fix
> unnecessary bugs every year !!
>
> Please Ed do not reply because it is really painful to read your post
> sometimes.
> Thanks,
>
> Vlad,
> Omondo
>

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