Home » Modeling » UML2 Tools » Suggestion for UML2 newbie?
Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476483] |
Fri, 15 May 2009 11:13 |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: sledz.dresearch.de
Hi NG,
we like to draw some activity, use case, and sequence diagrams in our project (for now no class diagrams or code generation). We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope creating the diagrams in a standardized format. Looking for a free tooling we came to Eclipse MDT-UML2Tools and later reading this group we discovered Papyrus.
But both seem to be very heavy if you just want to draw some diagrams. Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity diagrams. And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in an easy way.
Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
Thanx for some hints,
Steffen
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476485 is a reply to message #476483] |
Sun, 17 May 2009 23:41 |
Lazar Codrut-Lucian Messages: 91 Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).
While the <model> has a big chance of being interchangeable between
tools, the <notational model> doesn't.
This is because the notational model may be totally different between
tools: OMG proposed the Diagram Interchance standard which is used by
some tools, while Eclipse GMF project, on which Uml2Tools is based, uses
its own Notational Model (this means different nodes in XMI files and
different classes in Java).
Even if the same notational model is used, the structure of the nodes
may be different. Some tools could save more details than others, or use
different compartment names than others. It could be that the structure
is actually well defined in Diagram Interchange, but I couldn't find
many details when I looked for them.
This means that there is little chance that you can interchange
<diagrams>, unless the tools took explicit measures to support the
interchange (it seems to me that you want to interchange <diagrams>, not
just <models>).
Lucian
Steffen Sledz wrote:
> Hi NG,
>
> we like to draw some activity, use case, and sequence diagrams in our project (for now no class diagrams or code generation). We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope creating the diagrams in a standardized format. Looking for a free tooling we came to Eclipse MDT-UML2Tools and later reading this group we discovered Papyrus.
>
> But both seem to be very heavy if you just want to draw some diagrams. Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity diagrams. And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in an easy way.
>
> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
>
> Thanx for some hints,
> Steffen
>
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476487 is a reply to message #476485] |
Mon, 18 May 2009 08:42 |
Vlad Varnica Messages: 546 Registered: July 2009 Location: Milton Keynes - UK |
Senior Member |
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Hi Lucian,
My comment below:
You say: "When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).While the <model> .........."
The graphical presentation is specific to each tool and only XMI is the
same. I really don't understand why you say that OMG is trying to to have
a common graphical notation. This is a non sense and a waste of time !! I
think that if we contact the OMG and explain them our Eclipse point of
view they will be pleased to accept it and add another research project
:-). The Exported XMI from small diagram models using GMF and ATL (e.g.
Papyrus, Eclipse Modeling, Topcased) or full UML Superstructure Export
(e.g. RSA) or native UML integration of UML Superstructure Model (e.g
Omondo EclipseUML) could all interchange models between between them. The
only difference is the software architecture and graphical information.
What is important is the model and not the other information. Have a look
at my article you will see that you can rebuild a diagram from an UML
Superstructure Model (e.g the metamodel). This diagram is therefore a view
of the metamodel. See my article at:
http://www.forum-omondo.com/documentation_eclipseuml_2008/ec lipseuml2008_dynamic_navigation.html#4._Navigate_inside_the_ Xerces
Saving graphical information is not appropriate and not needed anymore
because:
1. Diagrams are a view of the UML Superstructure Model and not the model
itself.
2. You can for example save all notes, comments and constraints in the UML
Superstructure and then use show hide feature to display or not this
information.
3. Why to save static position if UML is now a live navigation ? You can
use the layout feature and get a clean diagram in just few seconds. You
can also customize everything inside your diagrams.
Thanks for your post.
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476489 is a reply to message #476483] |
Mon, 18 May 2009 12:02 |
Tatiana Fesenko Messages: 530 Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Hello Steffen,
> Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity
> diagrams.
Sequence diagram is a part of UML2Tools since Galileo M4. So, it is available
in the latest stable build of UML2Tools, Galileo M7 ( http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/downloads/?project=uml2t ools&showAll=1&hlbuild=S200905080854#S200905080854).
> And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in
> an easy way.
I guess, you mean an algorithm described here -- http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools_FAQ#How_can_I_export_m y_UML_model_to_XMI.3F.
Save/load diagrams in XMI is not very simple now, but everybody is free to
improve this functionality and contribute it to Eclipse.
> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the
> right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation
> (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
Refences to all existing documentation for UML2Tools can be found here --
http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools#Documentation . Actually, as other
open-source projects, UML2Tools has many cool features, but just some of
them are well-documented. I'll try to create a little bit more documentation
after RC1 build.
Best wishes,
Tanya.
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476494 is a reply to message #476483] |
Tue, 19 May 2009 14:09 |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: sledz.dresearch.de
At first thanx for all the useful hints.
Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
(Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)
Steffen
PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476496 is a reply to message #476494] |
Wed, 20 May 2009 17:16 |
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As you are posting this question in the UML2Tools newsgroup I assume the
advice is a bit biosed: Use UML2Tools
Steffen Sledz wrote:
> At first thanx for all the useful hints.
>
> Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
> (Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)
>
> Steffen
>
> PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
>
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623888 is a reply to message #476483] |
Sun, 17 May 2009 23:41 |
Lazar Codrut-Lucian Messages: 91 Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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|
When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).
While the <model> has a big chance of being interchangeable between
tools, the <notational model> doesn't.
This is because the notational model may be totally different between
tools: OMG proposed the Diagram Interchance standard which is used by
some tools, while Eclipse GMF project, on which Uml2Tools is based, uses
its own Notational Model (this means different nodes in XMI files and
different classes in Java).
Even if the same notational model is used, the structure of the nodes
may be different. Some tools could save more details than others, or use
different compartment names than others. It could be that the structure
is actually well defined in Diagram Interchange, but I couldn't find
many details when I looked for them.
This means that there is little chance that you can interchange
<diagrams>, unless the tools took explicit measures to support the
interchange (it seems to me that you want to interchange <diagrams>, not
just <models>).
Lucian
Steffen Sledz wrote:
> Hi NG,
>
> we like to draw some activity, use case, and sequence diagrams in our project (for now no class diagrams or code generation). We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope creating the diagrams in a standardized format. Looking for a free tooling we came to Eclipse MDT-UML2Tools and later reading this group we discovered Papyrus.
>
> But both seem to be very heavy if you just want to draw some diagrams. Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity diagrams. And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in an easy way.
>
> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
>
> Thanx for some hints,
> Steffen
>
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| |
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623890 is a reply to message #476485] |
Mon, 18 May 2009 08:42 |
Vlad Varnica Messages: 546 Registered: July 2009 Location: Milton Keynes - UK |
Senior Member |
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|
Hi Lucian,
My comment below:
You say: "When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).While the <model> .........."
The graphical presentation is specific to each tool and only XMI is the
same. I really don't understand why you say that OMG is trying to to have
a common graphical notation. This is a non sense and a waste of time !! I
think that if we contact the OMG and explain them our Eclipse point of
view they will be pleased to accept it and add another research project
:-). The Exported XMI from small diagram models using GMF and ATL (e.g.
Papyrus, Eclipse Modeling, Topcased) or full UML Superstructure Export
(e.g. RSA) or native UML integration of UML Superstructure Model (e.g
Omondo EclipseUML) could all interchange models between between them. The
only difference is the software architecture and graphical information.
What is important is the model and not the other information. Have a look
at my article you will see that you can rebuild a diagram from an UML
Superstructure Model (e.g the metamodel). This diagram is therefore a view
of the metamodel. See my article at:
http://www.forum-omondo.com/documentation_eclipseuml_2008/ec lipseuml2008_dynamic_navigation.html#4._Navigate_inside_the_ Xerces
Saving graphical information is not appropriate and not needed anymore
because:
1. Diagrams are a view of the UML Superstructure Model and not the model
itself.
2. You can for example save all notes, comments and constraints in the UML
Superstructure and then use show hide feature to display or not this
information.
3. Why to save static position if UML is now a live navigation ? You can
use the layout feature and get a clean diagram in just few seconds. You
can also customize everything inside your diagrams.
Thanks for your post.
|
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| |
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623892 is a reply to message #476483] |
Mon, 18 May 2009 12:02 |
Tatiana Fesenko Messages: 530 Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
Hello Steffen,
> Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity
> diagrams.
Sequence diagram is a part of UML2Tools since Galileo M4. So, it is available
in the latest stable build of UML2Tools, Galileo M7 ( http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/downloads/?project=uml2t ools&showAll=1&hlbuild=S200905080854#S200905080854).
> And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in
> an easy way.
I guess, you mean an algorithm described here -- http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools_FAQ#How_can_I_export_m y_UML_model_to_XMI.3F
Save/load diagrams in XMI is not very simple now, but everybody is free to
improve this functionality and contribute it to Eclipse.
> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the
> right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation
> (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
Refences to all existing documentation for UML2Tools can be found here --
http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools#Documentation . Actually, as other
open-source projects, UML2Tools has many cool features, but just some of
them are well-documented. I'll try to create a little bit more documentation
after RC1 build.
Best wishes,
Tanya.
|
|
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623897 is a reply to message #476483] |
Tue, 19 May 2009 14:09 |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: sledz.dresearch.de
At first thanx for all the useful hints.
Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
(Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)
Steffen
PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
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Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623899 is a reply to message #476494] |
Wed, 20 May 2009 17:16 |
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As you are posting this question in the UML2Tools newsgroup I assume the
advice is a bit biosed: Use UML2Tools
Steffen Sledz wrote:
> At first thanx for all the useful hints.
>
> Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
> (Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)
>
> Steffen
>
> PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
>
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