Home » Eclipse Projects » Rich Client Platform (RCP) » What tools for the single developer ?
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436054 is a reply to message #435962] |
Tue, 30 August 2005 12:51   |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: xxx.xxx.xx
Stefan Langer ha scritto:
> Actually versioning I would do with subversion.
> http://subversion.tigris.org
> Subversion is the next generation cvs and is a lot better at versioning
> refactored java code since it supports versioning of directories.
> It is fairly easy to setup if you follow the instructions in the
> subversionbook found at the above mentioned site.
> There is a prebuilt MacOS X version available.
>
> Regards
> Stefan
>
> Pascal Rapicault wrote:
>
>> bug tracking: bugzilla
>> versionning: cvs (first class integration with eclipse)
>> building packaging: eclipse pde build (not trivial to setup but with
>> patience you'll get everything automated: fetching, compiling, packaging)
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> PaScaL
>>
>> Cédric Hyppolite wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I am wondering what tools are you using to develop our RCP applications?
>>>
>>> I am looking for a tool to do bug-tracking and code versioning, and
>>> event release packaging if possible. I am looking for tools that do
>>> not take ages to setup and get running together with Eclipse.
>>>
>>>
>>> If the tools you are using are working on Unix there is a chance that
>>> they are also available on MacOSX which is the platform I am
>>> developing on.
>>>
>>> I may acquire a Linux box to use it as a server, so good tools on
>>> Linux may give me more incentive to buy a new computer.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input,
>>>
>>> Cedric
Please could You explain how to use subversion with Eclipse?
Thanks
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436057 is a reply to message #436054] |
Tue, 30 August 2005 13:47 |
 Cedric Hyppolite
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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Funky wrote:
> Stefan Langer ha scritto:
>
>> Actually versioning I would do with subversion.
>> http://subversion.tigris.org
>> Subversion is the next generation cvs and is a lot better at
>> versioning refactored java code since it supports versioning of
>> directories.
>> It is fairly easy to setup if you follow the instructions in the
>> subversionbook found at the above mentioned site.
>> There is a prebuilt MacOS X version available.
>>
>> Regards
>> Stefan
>>
>> Pascal Rapicault wrote:
>>
>>> bug tracking: bugzilla
>>> versionning: cvs (first class integration with eclipse)
>>> building packaging: eclipse pde build (not trivial to setup but with
>>> patience you'll get everything automated: fetching, compiling,
>>> packaging)
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> PaScaL
>>>
>>> Cédric Hyppolite wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering what tools are you using to develop our RCP
>>>> applications?
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for a tool to do bug-tracking and code versioning, and
>>>> event release packaging if possible. I am looking for tools that do
>>>> not take ages to setup and get running together with Eclipse.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the tools you are using are working on Unix there is a chance
>>>> that they are also available on MacOSX which is the platform I am
>>>> developing on.
>>>>
>>>> I may acquire a Linux box to use it as a server, so good tools on
>>>> Linux may give me more incentive to buy a new computer.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your input,
>>>>
>>>> Cedric
>
> Please could You explain how to use subversion with Eclipse?
> Thanks
I got subversion working with eclipse under MacOSX doing the following:
- Install the subversion binaries from
http://metissian.com/projects/macosx/subversion/
If you are not running macosx you can surely find the appropriate
binaries from http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html
- I added the binaries to the PATH variable, by modifying my csh.login
(this is also OS specific, but I guess that you know how to handle this,
if needed).
- I added a repository using the command found in the subversion book
(http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch05s02.html)
svnadmin create --fs-type fsfs /path/to/repos
- I downloaded the subclipse plugin through eclipse update feature (see
http://subclipse.tigris.org/install.html)
- After restarting ecplise, I created a repository in the SVN repository
window using the repository url file:///path/to/repos.
Then you can do all the nice thing you want to do with SVN.
I have not installed yet the Trac bug tracking since it seems a bit
difficult to do it under MacOSX (I add problems getting sqllite through
Fink). I am waiting for any other proposal for a tool that is as easy to
install as Subversion.
Regards,
Cédric
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436059 is a reply to message #435955] |
Tue, 30 August 2005 14:58 |
Alex Blewitt
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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I'd suggest CVS over SubVersion. The latter is a great idea, but like many (other) open-source projects isn't well managed. As an example, they tend to force you to check out the latest version from SVN, which kind of requires an SVN client to work with.
Unlike Eclipse, the SVN project's developers don't ship binaries for their code; instead, they let others provide it for them. So you can't download pre-built binaries from the developers; instead, you're reliant on other tools like Fink (on Mac OS X) to get hold of them.
In addition, the subclipse plugin is based on Windows DLLs rather than using the open-format Java interface (why design an open interface then rely on native implementations?) and isn't as well hooked in as the CVS support.
One day, maybe SVN will get there, but at present it's only really useful for C developers who want to compile-and-build their own. For any other developers (e.g. Java developers) who just want to use a version control system, I can't recommend SVN.
Having said that, the version of CVS that comes with Mac OS X has a slightly different format than is expected by the Eclipse client, so you may find you have to obtain binaries for the CVS server instead if it's on a Mac system :-)
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436060 is a reply to message #436059] |
Tue, 30 August 2005 16:13 |
Stefan Langer
Messages: 236
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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I disagree with you! Can't really comment on MacOSX since I don't use it.
Alex Blewitt wrote:
> I'd suggest CVS over SubVersion. The latter is a great idea, but like many (other) open-source projects isn't well managed. As an example, they tend to force you to check out the latest version from SVN, which kind of requires an SVN client to work with.
There are source downloads you can get. They don't require a svn client.
Only if you want the latest sources they suggest you to build a client
and get the latest sources. Besides there are many good clients out
there that support SVN which you don't have to compile yourself.
>
> Unlike Eclipse, the SVN project's developers don't ship binaries for their code; instead, they let others provide it for them. So you can't download pre-built binaries from the developers; instead, you're reliant on other tools like Fink (on Mac OS X) to get hold of them.
The svn site provides enough links to sites that give you binaries.
>
> In addition, the subclipse plugin is based on Windows DLLs rather than using the open-format Java interface (why design an open interface then rely on native implementations?) and isn't as well hooked in as the CVS support.
This is only true to a certain extend. There is a java library called
SVNJava which can replace the windows dlls. This works for me.
>
> One day, maybe SVN will get there, but at present it's only really useful for C developers who want to compile-and-build their own. For any other developers (e.g. Java developers) who just want to use a version control system, I can't recommend SVN.
It isn't hard to compile svn. The instructions are out there and ther is
a community that supports it.
>
> Having said that, the version of CVS that comes with Mac OS X has a slightly different format than is expected by the Eclipse client, so you may find you have to obtain binaries for the CVS server instead if it's on a Mac system :-)
In All I say the advantages of svn over cvs far outway the problem of
having to compile a svn version or obtain the binaries from some other
place. BTW Google is your friend as are YAHOO, WEB.DE, ALLTHEWEB etc....
The compilation you only do once or maybe a few times but the normal
work with the Versioncontrolsystem is definitly easier with svn.
Especially in JAVA once you start refactoring. And don't forget that svn
is able to diff binaries.
Regards
Stefan
P.S.: If you are on Windows go checkout TortoiseSVN as a very nice SVN
Client.
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436105 is a reply to message #436060] |
Tue, 30 August 2005 19:11 |
Cedric Hyppolite
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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On the binaries issue: I downloaded a MacosX package that I installed
without using Fink. (I do have Fink installed). It is as easy as 6
clicks from the download web page.
On MacOSX, sub clipse is obviously not dependent on Win32 DLL so I
didn't find any issue getting and running it.
And I found that setting up SVN is easier than CVS. There is less
documentation around (only the SVN book) but the documentation is
actually really up to date and useful.
So I got SVN running on MacOSX whereas I failed to setup the
pre-installed CVS server.
Regards,
Cédric
Stefan Langer wrote:
> I disagree with you! Can't really comment on MacOSX since I don't use it.
>
> Alex Blewitt wrote:
>
>> I'd suggest CVS over SubVersion. The latter is a great idea, but like
>> many (other) open-source projects isn't well managed. As an example,
>> they tend to force you to check out the latest version from SVN, which
>> kind of requires an SVN client to work with.
>
> There are source downloads you can get. They don't require a svn client.
> Only if you want the latest sources they suggest you to build a client
> and get the latest sources. Besides there are many good clients out
> there that support SVN which you don't have to compile yourself.
>
>>
>> Unlike Eclipse, the SVN project's developers don't ship binaries for
>> their code; instead, they let others provide it for them. So you can't
>> download pre-built binaries from the developers; instead, you're
>> reliant on other tools like Fink (on Mac OS X) to get hold of them.
>
> The svn site provides enough links to sites that give you binaries.
>
>>
>> In addition, the subclipse plugin is based on Windows DLLs rather than
>> using the open-format Java interface (why design an open interface
>> then rely on native implementations?) and isn't as well hooked in as
>> the CVS support.
>
> This is only true to a certain extend. There is a java library called
> SVNJava which can replace the windows dlls. This works for me.
>
>>
>> One day, maybe SVN will get there, but at present it's only really
>> useful for C developers who want to compile-and-build their own. For
>> any other developers (e.g. Java developers) who just want to use a
>> version control system, I can't recommend SVN.
>
> It isn't hard to compile svn. The instructions are out there and ther is
> a community that supports it.
>
>>
>> Having said that, the version of CVS that comes with Mac OS X has a
>> slightly different format than is expected by the Eclipse client, so
>> you may find you have to obtain binaries for the CVS server instead if
>> it's on a Mac system :-)
>
>
> In All I say the advantages of svn over cvs far outway the problem of
> having to compile a svn version or obtain the binaries from some other
> place. BTW Google is your friend as are YAHOO, WEB.DE, ALLTHEWEB etc....
> The compilation you only do once or maybe a few times but the normal
> work with the Versioncontrolsystem is definitly easier with svn.
> Especially in JAVA once you start refactoring. And don't forget that svn
> is able to diff binaries.
>
> Regards
> Stefan
>
> P.S.: If you are on Windows go checkout TortoiseSVN as a very nice SVN
> Client.
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436120 is a reply to message #436060] |
Wed, 31 August 2005 10:44 |
Alex Blewitt
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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> I disagree with you! Can't really comment on MacOSX
> since I don't use it.
My point being that SVN is better supported on Windows platforms than others. At least Eclipse supports CVS on every platform that Eclipse targets, and you can download a binary.
> The svn site provides enough links to sites that give
> you binaries.
Yes, but they are third-party people who compile them, rather than supported directly by the client. In these situations, you almost always get differing version numbers between platforms, and some less widely-used platforms (such as Mac OS X) have a tendancy to remain forgotten, or only provide binaries for an older release.
> > In addition, the subclipse plugin is based on
> > Windows DLLs rather than using the open-format Java
> > interface (why design an open interface then rely on
> > native implementations?) and isn't as well hooked in
> > as the CVS support.
>
> This is only true to a certain extend. There is a
> java library called SVNJava which can replace the
> windows dlls. This works for me.
Yes, it is possible. But it's not supported out-of-the-box, despite the Java solution being able to work on all platforms out-of-the-box. Why doesnt' subclipse use the Java implementation by default? Who knows ...
> It isn't hard to compile svn. The instructions are
> out there and ther is a community that supports it.
And this is the crux of the matter, and the blinkers that flank the SVN project: "It's OK, compile it yourself". Frankly, people who develop in Eclipse are mostly writing Java, and don't give a damn about compiling tools that we use. We download pre-built binaries. I don't get a hard-on compiling my own kernel every few months; I pay for a rock-solid OS so that I can get the job done. Every other tool that I use (OmniGraffle, Microsoft Office X, Eclipse) comes with built-in binaries that *just work*. If you're a Mac user, you know how much things *just work*.
As for the community; this is the point. There's no project binaries, it's something that the community provides. However, look at pretty much any other open-source project (Eclipse, Fire (IM client), RSSOwl) and you'll see that it's the *project* that supports the OS, not the community.
> In All I say the advantages of svn over cvs far
> outway the problem of
> having to compile a svn version or obtain the
> binaries from some other
> place. BTW Google is your friend as are YAHOO,
> WEB.DE, ALLTHEWEB etc....
There aren't really many differences, at least with a basic system. SVN was/is supposed to avoid some of CVS' niggles (like the ability to do moves) but even that didn't make it into the 1.x streams. I agree that SVN has a healthier future than CVS, but you are majorly missing the point; having to compile tools when you aren't even developing stuff in that frigging language is a major turn off. People can use CVS as a version control system for text files, websites, or even configuration files; not everyone who needs a version control system is a developer. And until the SVN project realises that and supports binaries from the website, rather than third-party supporters, it's never going to replace CVS in Eclipse.
> The compilation you only do once or maybe a few times
> but the normal
> work with the version control system is definitly
> easier with svn.
Actually, I don't use any command lines. I use Eclipse, and it does a damn good job of managing that for me. And I still don't have to compile anything.
> Especially in JAVA once you start refactoring. And
> don't forget that svn is able to diff binaries.
The version system is independent of refactoring. You're referring to keeping a history of changes of a file, and like I said, SVN has had problems with that in the past. In particular, there's nothing to suggest that the subclipse plugin actually handles the moves as an 'svn move' either.
The fact that SVN is able to diff binaries isn't spectacularly relevant, but it's a nice feature. Like I said, SVN has good ideas and is going in the right direction, but there's no project-level support or project-level binaries; and furthermore, the only plugin for Eclipse is setup by default using a proprietary windows-only binary instead of taking advantage of the Java interface, which is just stupid.
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| Re: What tools for the single developer ? [message #436122 is a reply to message #436120] |
Wed, 31 August 2005 11:04 |
Stefan Langer
Messages: 236
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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|
Some of the points you make may apply to some users like yourself and
hey it's up to you to do whatever you like!
SVN supports moving directories and files as a build in feature from
version 1.0 on because Directories are versioned as per se. The current
server version 1.2.3 definitly works without problems in that domain.
The only thing you have to remember is doing the move over svn not by
normal move in your filesystem.
About the native libraries in subclipse- I don't understand why they
haven't moved over to JavaSVN but from version 0.9.33 on they are
shipping it with subclipse so that should take care of your issues.
And since you didn't ask there are other things which make svn supirior
to cvs.
1. Binaryfiles can be versioned as diff.
2. Renaming is fully supported
3. Branching Tagging in constant time
4. Easy setup to use apache and webdav (this is a major improvement over
cvs)
5. Atomic commits (this is not really a showstopper in cvs!!!)
There are probably many more...
Now don't get me wrong CVS is a nice peace of software and I have used
and still am using it extensivly but if you want to missout on the
improvements just because you are afraid of compiling sources yourself
or you don't want to download binaries from third party vendors then
that is your option.
I myself think as JAVA Developer SVN is definitly an improvement over
CVS. And I'm not the only one switching over.
Apache as an example is using svn for their code and that should make
clear that SVN is ready for bigtimes.
Alex Blewitt wrote:
>>I disagree with you! Can't really comment on MacOSX
>>since I don't use it.
>
>
> My point being that SVN is better supported on Windows platforms than others. At least Eclipse supports CVS on every platform that Eclipse targets, and you can download a binary.
>
>
>>The svn site provides enough links to sites that give
>>you binaries.
>
>
> Yes, but they are third-party people who compile them, rather than supported directly by the client. In these situations, you almost always get differing version numbers between platforms, and some less widely-used platforms (such as Mac OS X) have a tendancy to remain forgotten, or only provide binaries for an older release.
>
>
>>>In addition, the subclipse plugin is based on
>>>Windows DLLs rather than using the open-format Java
>>>interface (why design an open interface then rely on
>>>native implementations?) and isn't as well hooked in
>>>as the CVS support.
>>
>>This is only true to a certain extend. There is a
>>java library called SVNJava which can replace the
>>windows dlls. This works for me.
>
>
> Yes, it is possible. But it's not supported out-of-the-box, despite the Java solution being able to work on all platforms out-of-the-box. Why doesnt' subclipse use the Java implementation by default? Who knows ...
>
>
>
>>It isn't hard to compile svn. The instructions are
>>out there and ther is a community that supports it.
>
>
> And this is the crux of the matter, and the blinkers that flank the SVN project: "It's OK, compile it yourself". Frankly, people who develop in Eclipse are mostly writing Java, and don't give a damn about compiling tools that we use. We download pre-built binaries. I don't get a hard-on compiling my own kernel every few months; I pay for a rock-solid OS so that I can get the job done. Every other tool that I use (OmniGraffle, Microsoft Office X, Eclipse) comes with built-in binaries that *just work*. If you're a Mac user, you know how much things *just work*.
>
> As for the community; this is the point. There's no project binaries, it's something that the community provides. However, look at pretty much any other open-source project (Eclipse, Fire (IM client), RSSOwl) and you'll see that it's the *project* that supports the OS, not the community.
>
>
>>In All I say the advantages of svn over cvs far
>>outway the problem of
>>having to compile a svn version or obtain the
>>binaries from some other
>>place. BTW Google is your friend as are YAHOO,
>>WEB.DE, ALLTHEWEB etc....
>
>
> There aren't really many differences, at least with a basic system. SVN was/is supposed to avoid some of CVS' niggles (like the ability to do moves) but even that didn't make it into the 1.x streams. I agree that SVN has a healthier future than CVS, but you are majorly missing the point; having to compile tools when you aren't even developing stuff in that frigging language is a major turn off. People can use CVS as a version control system for text files, websites, or even configuration files; not everyone who needs a version control system is a developer. And until the SVN project realises that and supports binaries from the website, rather than third-party supporters, it's never going to replace CVS in Eclipse.
>
>
>>The compilation you only do once or maybe a few times
>>but the normal
>>work with the version control system is definitly
>>easier with svn.
>
>
> Actually, I don't use any command lines. I use Eclipse, and it does a damn good job of managing that for me. And I still don't have to compile anything.
>
>
>>Especially in JAVA once you start refactoring. And
>>don't forget that svn is able to diff binaries.
>
>
> The version system is independent of refactoring. You're referring to keeping a history of changes of a file, and like I said, SVN has had problems with that in the past. In particular, there's nothing to suggest that the subclipse plugin actually handles the moves as an 'svn move' either.
>
> The fact that SVN is able to diff binaries isn't spectacularly relevant, but it's a nice feature. Like I said, SVN has good ideas and is going in the right direction, but there's no project-level support or project-level binaries; and furthermore, the only plugin for Eclipse is setup by default using a proprietary windows-only binary instead of taking advantage of the Java interface, which is just stupid.
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