Home » Eclipse Projects » Eclipse 4 » Abandoning E4
|Abandoning E4 [message #1413715]
||Fri, 29 August 2014 08:56
| Martin odloucký
Registered: July 2010
Hello guys, |
my final decision is here. I am leaving the e4 platform and returning to the good old 3.x. Why? Here are the reasons. Note, that I have been working with the Eclipse platform for over 4 years now, so I have some experience with the 3.x.
1. It is immensely complicated to the even very simple things like binding MenuItem visibility to a core-expression. I just wanted to have some menu items to be visible only when particular part is active. After two weeks of investigation, I am giving up. If you wish, look at my previous post
see the associated bugs, see how many basic things are not solved after two releases 4.3 and 4.4. I just cannot browse forums and bugreports for two weeks to solve such a basic issue.
2. The platform got horrendously complicated and cluttered by things from the past, backward compatibility layers and so forth. Look at Eclipse Luna. It still uses Actions instead of commands. I know there is no other choice, you cannot break compatibility with already exisitng plugins. However, if you want to use e4 in standalone RCP which means you do not have to deal with backward compatibility you still have to use many things from the past, like eclipse.ui.workbench which contains some very useful controls.
3. There is no documentation! There are a few tutorials from Lars Vogel (thank you Lars, you are king) some VERY incomplete wiki pages and thats it. If only the platfrom was functional and there was some place where I can learn how to do even simple things, I would gladly write tutorials by myself. But now my e4 RCP is mostly workaround wrapped in another workaround.
I think that E4 is heading the right direction and maybe, after next 4 releases it would be mature enough. By that time though, the platform will be its own operating system written in Java being as big as Windows 8 and slow as hell due to so many layers upon layers of other layers of compatiblity, EMF and who knows what else.
I do not wish to say that the developers do not work hard and with a good intent on their minds. I just want to say that e4 is not for me.
| Re: Abandoning E4 [message #1417307 is a reply to message #1413786]
||Fri, 05 September 2014 06:18
|| Jeeeyul Lee
Registered: July 2009
At first, Command Framework is not coming with e4.|
It was strongly recommanded standard way since eclipse 3.2.
Except very old fashioned plugins that I don't like, Almost plugins uses command framework.
ActionSets are deprecated long time ago.
Here are the core reasons:
With actions, to display menu or toolbar, plugin must be started, even user never use buttons.
Because action is described with code.
It's too stupid strategy.
It's okay with small Face Application, but not for huge application such as Eclipse.
Actually, in eclipse 2.x ~ 3.1, Just starting eclipse is almost impossible with many plugins due to this problems.
(My eclipse contains 1,500 plugins)
Mean while, Command and menu contributions are just xml.
There is no reason to load classes.
Core-Expressions are also described as xml (I mean extension in plugin.xml).
And the other developers can easily inspect codes,
Because everything is described in single plugin.xml.
It makes management extremely easy.
So, We don't have execute any code to compute visibility or eanblement, or to figure out appropriate icons.
As a result, plugins does not have to be started to display it's UI contributions till users actually use it.
Without this, Eclipse might be failed 7~8 years ago.
And, all the documents that you need is already shipped in your eclipse help.
|Re: Abandoning E4 [message #1417358 is a reply to message #1417340]
||Fri, 05 September 2014 08:48
|| Jeeeyul Lee
Registered: July 2009
I did read your post many times, however I don't get what you really want to say, sorry.|
Can you give more clue?
model file, codes or menu contribution xml..
is there somewhere a "guide" on what is really supported in css in e4 now
Yes, here it is
SWT is not intended to be customized, It supposed to provide exactly same native experience with user's OS. It means using native theme.
So e4 css styling idea has some paradox with SWT.
for Instance, Even CSS feature is provided by e4,
There is no way to adjust vertical alignment of Button in Windows OS.
Because Windows doesn't provides such APIs.
So css is not so meaning full for SWT except cross-platform custom controls(canvas based, IE: CTabFolder)
However It is hard to treat e4 as stupid.
Because e4 is not intended to be rendered with SWT Only.
Luna is just single show case of E4 Application renderer.
There are few renderers that is not using SWT, however each of them has to long way to go by for now.
You can also define new css properties, however it's somehow complicated to explain now.
Instead of explaining it, Please visit my theme plugin project to check capabilities.
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