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Converting a TUI user interface (former Clipper application) towards scout [message #1396069] Mon, 07 July 2014 20:56 Go to next message
Tore Van Grembergen is currently offline Tore Van GrembergenFriend
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2014
Location: Bassevelde
Junior Member
Hi,

I need to start porting a TUI application towards a modern application environment.
Eclipse Scout could be a possible solution.

In the old days as one when sequential throught all field one could impose pre and post conditions on each field.

In case of clipper it was with "WHEN" and "VALID" on each field during the get statement.

Is there a possibility to do the same thing in eclipse scout ?

See e.g. below screenshot.

index.php/fa/18492/0/

- When one leaves the field supplier, the fields with the tarrifs are filled in.
- When leaving the field Total Amount, inventory is checked, and the user is given the possibility to either correct the amount based on available inventory or adjust the total amount.

My Question : Is there a possibility to have this kind of field validations in eclipse scout so when one tries to leave a field, a call is sent to the server to validate certain information, or to update other fields with new information.

Any help is much appreciated.

Kind regards

Tore
Re: Converting a TUI user interface (former Clipper application) towards scout [message #1396341 is a reply to message #1396069] Tue, 08 July 2014 07:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthias Nick is currently offline Matthias NickFriend
Messages: 197
Registered: August 2013
Senior Member
Hi Tore,

glad you are evaluating Eclipse Scout for your project.

Eclipse Scout does have a sophisticated validation framework. I can't see your screenshot (I guess this is a eclipse forum problem) but your usecase should be possible.

See our wiki - validation entry.

You can also try our live demo. Open the tree on the left hand side and select the node "DateField". Click into the DateField and paste some random text, like "abc123". Now, when you click outside the field, the validation engine runs. Now you should see a red marker indicating "abc123 is an invalid value".

Hope this helps. If you have any further questions let me know.

Best regards,
Matthias
Re: Converting a TUI user interface (former Clipper application) towards scout [message #1396355 is a reply to message #1396341] Tue, 08 July 2014 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthias Zimmermann is currently offline Matthias ZimmermannFriend
Messages: 95
Registered: February 2010
Member
I know of a project with similar requirements that is migrating a JSP based application to Scout. We'll try to get some more detailed proposal from there.
Re: Converting a TUI user interface (former Clipper application) towards scout [message #1396436 is a reply to message #1396069] Tue, 08 July 2014 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremie Bresson is currently offline Jeremie BressonFriend
Messages: 978
Registered: October 2011
Senior Member
Hi,

As Matthias Nick wrote, scout brings a lot out of the box. A typical scout application will work like this:
* Client side:
Validation of each field (checking user input: like min/max value for number field, date not in the past for a date...).
You have also the notion of mandatory field, of master/slave fields...

* Server side:
When the form is stored, we do business validation and tell the user if he could save its form or not.

Project specific requirements
Your project will probably have additional requirement. It is possible to define what the scout-way to implement them is. I can give you examples taken from the project where I am currently involved. It is also a migration project. I hope it will give you a feeling of what is possible with scout behind what comes out of the box.

1/
In our project, the server computes error message that we need to display on each field.
I have discussed my approach in this thread: "Server side mapping of validations coming from a backend". As I told in the thread, I could share some code if anyone is interested.
It is not out of the box in the scout runtime framework, but the implementation we choose is now used in each form and can be used by the developers without having to think about it every time (same pattern everywhere).

2/
Another pattern we implemented might be near to your requirement:
When a value is changed in a field, we do a server roundtrip to calculate the state of the form to set values in other fields. It is absolutely possible.
Because our backend is not always quick, sometimes the user needs to wait. This is not the best user experience you could imagine as desktop application developer, but it was a requirement in this project. We had to reuse the backend logic, without having to rewrite it (programming against a black box on the server side), so it was our only option.
The first user-tests demonstrate that the performances and user experience are similar to what was in the old application. So again: not a typical use case for a scout application, but a pragmatic solution.
Really important: we introduced a pattern at form level (we have a doCalculate() method, similar to the existing doSave() method). It can be seen as a small framework extension. Now every migrated Form uses this pattern.

3/
Last example: we had a pattern where you have a table with some entries and a group box containing details to the selected row. I have discussed it here: "Table and GroupBox for details on row selection"

It is not something you get out-of the box, but we managed to define a pattern that can be used for those cases.
The implementation discussed in the forum is an "everything in the client" approach.
The current implementation has evolved, because we figured out that in some cases, the backend wants to know about the selected row. For those cases, we need also to do a server roundtrip when the selection in the table changes.


Conclusion
Feel free to ask if you need more detail about what scout can and how.

I am confident scout could be a good framework for what you want to do. You will not get everything out of the box, but I think that solutions can be found depending on your requirements. Without knowing your constraints (architecture, existing logic...), it is difficult to discuss how a scout "Proof of Concept" could look like.

After having worked on a migration after several months, I can give you one advice:
Define a target architecture (a set of patterns). It is really difficult to identify them in advance especially if you are migrating an existing application. In the early phase of your project it is important to identify the patterns and to implement them the same way everywhere.

I hope we hear from you (even if you chose another framework)
Re: Converting a TUI user interface (former Clipper application) towards scout [message #1399773 is a reply to message #1396436] Sun, 13 July 2014 05:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tore Van Grembergen is currently offline Tore Van GrembergenFriend
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2014
Location: Bassevelde
Junior Member
Thanks all for the feedback.

Indeed it is necessary to have back end (server side) validation.
Thanks for sharing you experiences.
It is very valuable information.

Given the importance of being able to to server side validation.
Is there any indication when there will be a native approach in Scout to do this ?

Kind regards

Tore
Re: Converting a TUI user interface (former Clipper application) towards scout [message #1402204 is a reply to message #1399773] Wed, 16 July 2014 17:26 Go to previous message
Jeremie Bresson is currently offline Jeremie BressonFriend
Messages: 978
Registered: October 2011
Senior Member
Tore Van Grembergen wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 07:55
Given the importance of being able to to server side validation.
Is there any indication when there will be a native approach in Scout to do this ?

Kind regards

Tore


Good question.

See my answer in the other forum thread.

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