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Home » Eclipse Projects » Remote Application Platform (RAP) » RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support?
RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support? [message #113924] Fri, 28 November 2008 07:02 Go to next message
Kristian Rink is currently offline Kristian RinkFriend
Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009
Member
Folks;

so far considering a technology for re-building parts of our on-line
services, RAP has found its way on our agenda for several reasons, but
before making an actual decision, I need to get some basic questions
answered. Most important to us in the moment: We so far run a more or less
sophisticated JavaEE/Spring backend system housed in a Glassfish V2
application container for the sake of load balancing, cluster-failover and EAI.

* Will a RAP based application smoothly fit in there in terms of being
seamlessly deployed to Glassfishv2/v3 (Servlet Bridge) and in terms of
seamlessly accessing information coming from the "web session environment"
(most notably HTTP authentication user information, session ids, the like)?

* Does a RAP application hold up to Java EE clustering requirements and
session failover in such a setup?

* We so far are running 20..50 concurrent users, which is to somewhat
increase when the new UI is done, so we are planning to cater for something
up to 200 concurrent users working with the system. Are there any general
considerations against RAP looking at these user numbers, or is it still
considered "small" in terms of that technology? Would it do?


* Asides this: Our schedule for at least reaching a prototype is rather
short here, so, knowing it's our general decision, we would like to both
have (=buy) some days of in-house training focused on building Eclipse
RCP/RAP applications to get us started quickly and to have an option of
buying developer support resources for having our most important questions
during building the prototype answered. We're located in Germany - if
there's anyone here thinking (s)he can provide us with this kind of service,
feel free to contact me off-group.


Thanks in advance and kind regards,
Kristian
Re: RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support? [message #113976 is a reply to message #113924] Fri, 28 November 2008 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Klaus Schroiff is currently offline Klaus SchroiffFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I did some RAP feasibility testing lately and got headaches over the
following issues:

a) RAP does not support failover
b) RAP spawns one UIThread (system thread) per session which does not get
terminated till the session timeout is reached
Re: RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support? [message #114002 is a reply to message #113976] Fri, 28 November 2008 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kristian Rink is currently offline Kristian RinkFriend
Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009
Member
Klaus;

thanks a bunch for your feedback and information on that, much appreciated.

Klaus Schroiff schrieb:
[...]
> a) RAP does not support failover b) RAP spawns one UIThread (system
> thread) per session which does not get terminated till the session
> timeout is reached.

Lack of failover support itself is not that good. About (b) however, if I
get that right, the UIThread also keeps running given a session is "ended"
(logout) by some user?

Cheers & all the best,
Kristian
Re: RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support? [message #114014 is a reply to message #114002] Fri, 28 November 2008 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Klaus Schroiff is currently offline Klaus SchroiffFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Kristian,

> About (b) however, if I
> get that right, the UIThread also keeps running given a session is "ended"
> (logout) by some user?

The UIThread gets terminated after the session timeout. A manual session
termination (logout) does the same.

Example:
- 200 active users (with active sessions)
- 400 dormant users (but with active sessions)
- 1000 users with terminated sessions (logged out or via session timeout)

In this case you will have 600 active system threads (aka UIThreads) in
parallel (!). According to some other folks here this is a dependency
towards the SWT UIThread environment. You may imagine that this approach
is also the reason for the failover problem.

This behavior is unlike classic servlet threads which go back into the
servlet thread pool thus keeping the number of system threads down at a
sane level.

You may argue that the sheer number of Threads is something of a phantom
pain but if you've a fairly heavy-weight application with comparatively
high stack requirements you will run out-of-system-threads on 32bit
platforms very soon. This happened to us on a Windows 2003 server (1000
threads aka sessions were the finish line for us here). Assuming a 64bit
system and sufficient RAM this may not be a real issue ... dunno.
Nonetheless it doesn't really "feel good" that RAP floods the system with
loads of threads (IMHO).

cheers

Klaus
Re: RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support? [message #114075 is a reply to message #113924] Sun, 30 November 2008 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: rherrmann.innoopract.com

Hi Kristian,

please see my comments below.

HTH
Rüdiger

Kristian Rink wrote:
> Folks;
>
> so far considering a technology for re-building parts of our on-line
> services, RAP has found its way on our agenda for several reasons, but
> before making an actual decision, I need to get some basic questions
> answered. Most important to us in the moment: We so far run a more or less
> sophisticated JavaEE/Spring backend system housed in a Glassfish V2
> application container for the sake of load balancing, cluster-failover and EAI.
>
> * Will a RAP based application smoothly fit in there in terms of being
> seamlessly deployed to Glassfishv2/v3 (Servlet Bridge) and in terms of
> seamlessly accessing information coming from the "web session environment"
> (most notably HTTP authentication user information, session ids, the like)?
RAP requires a servlet API (version 2.3 to 2.5) to run on and
provides access to the "standard" javax.servlet API.
I know of at least on case in which RAP is successfully used in
tandem with a JavaEE/Spring backend.

>
> * Does a RAP application hold up to Java EE clustering requirements and
> session failover in such a setup?
>
> * We so far are running 20..50 concurrent users, which is to somewhat
> increase when the new UI is done, so we are planning to cater for something
> up to 200 concurrent users working with the system. Are there any general
> considerations against RAP looking at these user numbers, or is it still
> considered "small" in terms of that technology? Would it do?
If only considering the UI, 200 concurrent users is a moderate
number. The rest depends on what resource requirements your
applications has.

>
>
> * Asides this: Our schedule for at least reaching a prototype is rather
> short here, so, knowing it's our general decision, we would like to both
> have (=buy) some days of in-house training focused on building Eclipse
> RCP/RAP applications to get us started quickly and to have an option of
> buying developer support resources for having our most important questions
> during building the prototype answered. We're located in Germany - if
> there's anyone here thinking (s)he can provide us with this kind of service,
> feel free to contact me off-group.
Innoopract offers these services. I will ask someone form our sales
team to contact you.

>
>
> Thanks in advance and kind regards,
> Kristian
Re: RAP in heavy-load environments (glassfishv2/3, java ee), support? [message #114096 is a reply to message #114075] Mon, 01 December 2008 07:17 Go to previous message
Kristian Rink is currently offline Kristian RinkFriend
Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Rüdiger;

and first off, thanks a bunch for your insightful comments on that.

Rüdiger Herrmann schrieb:
> RAP requires a servlet API (version 2.3 to 2.5) to run on and provides
> access to the "standard" javax.servlet API.
> I know of at least on case in which RAP is successfully used in tandem
> with a JavaEE/Spring backend.

Okay. This is good as this is a core requirement in our case.

[...]
> If only considering the UI, 200 concurrent users is a moderate number.
> The rest depends on what resource requirements your applications has.

Also fine. The rest of the application will remain the same as it is now
more or less (apart from introducing a thin layer of middleware / "glue
code" to attach the UI).


> Innoopract offers these services. I will ask someone form our sales team
> to contact you.

Okay, thanks a bunch. I also used the Innoopract online contact form on
Friday outlining a few of our requirements and basically asking the same
questions, would be great if we could get something done here. :)

Cheers & thanks,
Kristian
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