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Home » Modeling » EMF "Technology" (Ecore Tools, EMFatic, etc)  » [Teneo] LazyInitializationException
[Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #97955] Fri, 28 September 2007 11:33 Go to next message
Parvez is currently offline ParvezFriend
Messages: 181
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.

http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html

I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were for
0.7.5) but didn't work.


I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.

If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
extends HibernatePersistableEList)



@Override
protected synchronized int delegateSize()
{
return super.delegateSize();
}
I

then it works but makes the loading very very slow.

If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still get
error:

org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
collection
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
at
org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
Re: [Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #97985 is a reply to message #97955] Fri, 28 September 2007 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin TaalFriend
Messages: 5468
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,
Can you post the complete stacktrace?

gr. Martin

PC wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.
>
> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html
>
> I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were for
> 0.7.5) but didn't work.
>
>
> I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.
>
> If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
> extends HibernatePersistableEList)
>
>
>
> @Override
> protected synchronized int delegateSize()
> {
> return super.delegateSize();
> }
> I
>
> then it works but makes the loading very very slow.
>
> If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still get
> error:
>
> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
> collection
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>
> at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #98000 is a reply to message #97985] Fri, 28 September 2007 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parvez is currently offline ParvezFriend
Messages: 181
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Martin,

Here it is:

org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
collection
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
at
org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitDeviceInterface(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:81)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DeviceInterfaceImpl.a pply(DeviceInterfaceImpl.java:282)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitRoot(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:246)
at com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.RootImpl.apply(RootIm pl.java:178)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.runtime.logic.internal.BuildManager.st artBuild(BuildManager.java:96)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.gui.internal.jobs.DownloadBinariesJob. run(DownloadBinariesJob.java:85)
at org.eclipse.core.internal.jobs.Worker.run(Worker.java:55)

Thanks.
- Parvez
Martin Taal wrote:
> Hi,
> Can you post the complete stacktrace?
>
> gr. Martin
>
> PC wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.
>>
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html
>>
>>
>> I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were
>> for 0.7.5) but didn't work.
>>
>>
>> I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.
>>
>> If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
>> extends HibernatePersistableEList)
>>
>>
>>
>> @Override
>> protected synchronized int delegateSize()
>> {
>> return super.delegateSize();
>> }
>> I
>>
>> then it works but makes the loading very very slow.
>>
>> If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still
>> get error:
>>
>> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
>> collection
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>>
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>>
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>>
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>>
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>>
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
>>
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
Re: [Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #98028 is a reply to message #98000] Sun, 30 September 2007 05:09 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin TaalFriend
Messages: 5468
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Parvez,
Looking at the old post you refer to. The lazyinitializationexception occurs because you have
multi-threaded access to one list (correct?).
If this is the case then this exception (in this case) can only be prevented by synchronizing the
access to the list (at least when it is initializing).
After the list has been initialized then the size method should be very quick. So I do not
understand why synchronizing this method makes the system very slow. Can you check what takes so
much time there (is the cpu 100%, are there multiple threads waiting for this method, is the size
method called many times?)?

gr. Martin

PC wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> Here it is:
>
> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
> collection
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>
> at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitDeviceInterface(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:81)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DeviceInterfaceImpl.a pply(DeviceInterfaceImpl.java:282)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitRoot(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:246)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.RootImpl.apply(RootIm pl.java:178)
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.runtime.logic.internal.BuildManager.st artBuild(BuildManager.java:96)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.gui.internal.jobs.DownloadBinariesJob. run(DownloadBinariesJob.java:85)
>
> at org.eclipse.core.internal.jobs.Worker.run(Worker.java:55)
>
> Thanks.
> - Parvez
> Martin Taal wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Can you post the complete stacktrace?
>>
>> gr. Martin
>>
>> PC wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.
>>>
>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were
>>> for 0.7.5) but didn't work.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.
>>>
>>> If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
>>> extends HibernatePersistableEList)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @Override
>>> protected synchronized int delegateSize()
>>> {
>>> return super.delegateSize();
>>> }
>>> I
>>>
>>> then it works but makes the loading very very slow.
>>>
>>> If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still
>>> get error:
>>>
>>> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
>>> collection
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #609850 is a reply to message #97955] Fri, 28 September 2007 15:07 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin TaalFriend
Messages: 5468
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,
Can you post the complete stacktrace?

gr. Martin

PC wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.
>
> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html
>
> I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were for
> 0.7.5) but didn't work.
>
>
> I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.
>
> If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
> extends HibernatePersistableEList)
>
>
>
> @Override
> protected synchronized int delegateSize()
> {
> return super.delegateSize();
> }
> I
>
> then it works but makes the loading very very slow.
>
> If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still get
> error:
>
> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
> collection
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>
> at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #609851 is a reply to message #97985] Fri, 28 September 2007 15:13 Go to previous message
Parvez is currently offline ParvezFriend
Messages: 181
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Martin,

Here it is:

org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
collection
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
at
org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
at
org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
at
org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitDeviceInterface(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:81)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DeviceInterfaceImpl.a pply(DeviceInterfaceImpl.java:282)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitRoot(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:246)
at com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.RootImpl.apply(RootIm pl.java:178)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.runtime.logic.internal.BuildManager.st artBuild(BuildManager.java:96)
at
com.pilz.pas.platform.gui.internal.jobs.DownloadBinariesJob. run(DownloadBinariesJob.java:85)
at org.eclipse.core.internal.jobs.Worker.run(Worker.java:55)

Thanks.
- Parvez
Martin Taal wrote:
> Hi,
> Can you post the complete stacktrace?
>
> gr. Martin
>
> PC wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.
>>
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html
>>
>>
>> I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were
>> for 0.7.5) but didn't work.
>>
>>
>> I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.
>>
>> If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
>> extends HibernatePersistableEList)
>>
>>
>>
>> @Override
>> protected synchronized int delegateSize()
>> {
>> return super.delegateSize();
>> }
>> I
>>
>> then it works but makes the loading very very slow.
>>
>> If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still
>> get error:
>>
>> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
>> collection
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>>
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>>
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>>
>> at
>> org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>>
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>>
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
>>
>> at
>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
Re: [Teneo] LazyInitializationException [message #609853 is a reply to message #98000] Sun, 30 September 2007 05:09 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin TaalFriend
Messages: 5468
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Parvez,
Looking at the old post you refer to. The lazyinitializationexception occurs because you have
multi-threaded access to one list (correct?).
If this is the case then this exception (in this case) can only be prevented by synchronizing the
access to the list (at least when it is initializing).
After the list has been initialized then the size method should be very quick. So I do not
understand why synchronizing this method makes the system very slow. Can you check what takes so
much time there (is the cpu 100%, are there multiple threads waiting for this method, is the size
method called many times?)?

gr. Martin

PC wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> Here it is:
>
> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
> collection
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>
> at
> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>
> at org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
> at
> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitDeviceInterface(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:81)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DeviceInterfaceImpl.a pply(DeviceInterfaceImpl.java:282)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.DepthFirstVisitorImpl .visitRoot(DepthFirstVisitorImpl.java:246)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.iface.model.impl.RootImpl.apply(RootIm pl.java:178)
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.runtime.logic.internal.BuildManager.st artBuild(BuildManager.java:96)
>
> at
> com.pilz.pas.platform.gui.internal.jobs.DownloadBinariesJob. run(DownloadBinariesJob.java:85)
>
> at org.eclipse.core.internal.jobs.Worker.run(Worker.java:55)
>
> Thanks.
> - Parvez
> Martin Taal wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Can you post the complete stacktrace?
>>
>> gr. Martin
>>
>> PC wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am trying to handle LazyInitializationException in teneo 0.8.
>>>
>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.technology.emf t/msg03083.html
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying according to steps mentioned in above post (which were
>>> for 0.7.5) but didn't work.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I may not be doing it right for 0.8.
>>>
>>> If I override & synchronize delegateSize() method in my class (which
>>> extends HibernatePersistableEList)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @Override
>>> protected synchronized int delegateSize()
>>> {
>>> return super.delegateSize();
>>> }
>>> I
>>>
>>> then it works but makes the loading very very slow.
>>>
>>> If I don't override this method and just do above steps then I still
>>> get error:
>>>
>>> org.hibernate.LazyInitializationException: illegal access to loading
>>> collection
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.initia lize(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:341)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.read(A bstractPersistentCollection.java:86)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.AbstractPersistentCollection.readSi ze(AbstractPersistentCollection.java:109)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.hibernate.collection.PersistentList.size(PersistentList. java:91)
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.delegateSize(Del egatingEList.java:231)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.teneo.mapping.elist.PersistableEList.delegat eSize(PersistableEList.java:434)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList.size(DelegatingE List.java:222)
>>>
>>> at
>>> org.eclipse.emf.common.util.DelegatingEList$EIterator.hasNex t(DelegatingEList.java:1048)
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
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