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Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #526832] Tue, 13 April 2010 07:57 Go to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
Messages: 860
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member

Hi all,

I am aware that RAP currently does not support the SWT canvas and the draw2d API to work with the Canvas.
However, I saw the video of quake running in HTML5/JS using a GWT cross-compiler on Java code to get JS [1], and I know think everything is possible.

Here is the idea I have in mind, and I'd like you to tell me if it is a good idea or not:
Compile draw2d API into Java Script using GWT and HTML5 Canvas. Then Draw2d would probably become easier to use port to the web, and then there will finally be a way to map SWT Canvas to HTML5 Canvas (and then to provide a way to use GEF and GMF with RAP).

Then, do you think it is possible, do you think it is useful, do you think it is complicated, do you think anything else?

[1] http://googlewebtoolkit.blogspot.com/2010/04/look-ma-no-plug in.html

--
Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #526896 is a reply to message #526832] Tue, 13 April 2010 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martijn Cremer is currently offline Martijn CremerFriend
Messages: 77
Registered: January 2010
Location: Breda
Member

Mickael Istria wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 09:57
Hi all,

I am aware that RAP currently does not support the SWT canvas and the draw2d API to work with the Canvas.
However, I saw the video of quake running in HTML5/JS using a GWT cross-compiler on Java code to get JS [1], and I know think everything is possible.

Here is the idea I have in mind, and I'd like you to tell me if it is a good idea or not:
Compile draw2d API into Java Script using GWT and HTML5 Canvas. Then Draw2d would probably become easier to use port to the web, and then there will finally be a way to map SWT Canvas to HTML5 Canvas (and then to provide a way to use GEF and GMF with RAP).

Then, do you think it is possible, do you think it is useful, do you think it is complicated, do you think anything else?

[1] http://googlewebtoolkit.blogspot.com/2010/04/look-ma-no-plug in.html

--
Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php


If I recall correctly that video was published by google on 1st of April... Nuf said I think.. the grapics and the video Multi player function sould tell you html5 aint that powerfull.


hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #526906 is a reply to message #526896] Tue, 13 April 2010 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
Messages: 860
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member

Maybe I am credulous, but comments on blog post, other blogs of project contributors and the project page (http://code.google.com/p/quake2-gwt-port/) makes me believe it is true...
If this is true, isn't it a good way to go ahead in RAP supporting Canvas?

--
Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #526968 is a reply to message #526906] Tue, 13 April 2010 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
Messages: 860
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member

Mickael Istria a écrit :
> Maybe I am credulous, but comments on blog post, other blogs of project
> contributors and the project page
> (http://code.google.com/p/quake2-gwt-port/) makes me believe it is true...
> If this is true, isn't it a good way to go ahead in RAP supporting Canvas?

I just gave a try following the instruction in [1] on my local machine and it works well. This is not an April Fool.

Then let's get back to the initial question. What about porting draw2d to the web using GWT? Would it make the SWT->HTML5 mapping easier?

--
Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #526971 is a reply to message #526906] Tue, 13 April 2010 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rüdiger Herrmann is currently offline Rüdiger HerrmannFriend
Messages: 581
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On 13.04.2010 15:25, Mickael Istria wrote:
> Maybe I am credulous, but comments on blog post, other blogs of project
> contributors and the project page
> (http://code.google.com/p/quake2-gwt-port/) makes me believe it is true...
> If this is true, isn't it a good way to go ahead in RAP supporting Canvas?
The clients that RAP currently supports are IE >= 6, FF >= 2.0 and newer
WebKit-based browsers.
Using WebGL would mean to drop support for about half the currently
supported browsers, wouldn't it?

>
> --
> Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
> http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #526988 is a reply to message #526971] Tue, 13 April 2010 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
Messages: 860
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member

Rüdiger Herrmann a écrit :
> On 13.04.2010 15:25, Mickael Istria wrote:
>> Maybe I am credulous, but comments on blog post, other blogs of project
>> contributors and the project page
>> (http://code.google.com/p/quake2-gwt-port/) makes me believe it is
>> true...
>> If this is true, isn't it a good way to go ahead in RAP supporting
>> Canvas?
> The clients that RAP currently supports are IE >= 6, FF >= 2.0 and newer
> WebKit-based browsers.
> Using WebGL would mean to drop support for about half the currently
> supported browsers, wouldn't it?

The problem is not that much about WebGL (maybe another JS API can be used), but more about the Canvas widget. Canvas is HTML5, and HTML5 is only available on cutting-edge browser, breaking compatibility with older browsers. But this widget seems to be very helpful (maybe necessary?) to port Draw2d, GEF and GMF to the web. Maybe it would be possible to keep compatibility with pre-HTML5 browsers for application that do not use Canvas, but to make HTML5 a dependency anytime there is a use of Canvas?

--
Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #527170 is a reply to message #526988] Wed, 14 April 2010 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rüdiger Herrmann is currently offline Rüdiger HerrmannFriend
Messages: 581
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On 13.04.2010 17:44, Mickael Istria wrote:
> Rüdiger Herrmann a écrit :
>> On 13.04.2010 15:25, Mickael Istria wrote:
>>> Maybe I am credulous, but comments on blog post, other blogs of project
>>> contributors and the project page
>>> (http://code.google.com/p/quake2-gwt-port/) makes me believe it is
>>> true...
>>> If this is true, isn't it a good way to go ahead in RAP supporting
>>> Canvas?
>> The clients that RAP currently supports are IE >= 6, FF >= 2.0 and
>> newer WebKit-based browsers.
>> Using WebGL would mean to drop support for about half the currently
>> supported browsers, wouldn't it?
>
> The problem is not that much about WebGL (maybe another JS API can be
> used), but more about the Canvas widget. Canvas is HTML5, and HTML5 is
> only available on cutting-edge browser, breaking compatibility with
> older browsers. But this widget seems to be very helpful (maybe
> necessary?) to port Draw2d, GEF and GMF to the web. Maybe it would be
> possible to keep compatibility with pre-HTML5 browsers for application
> that do not use Canvas, but to make HTML5 a dependency anytime there is
> a use of Canvas?
We just finished a GC implementation that provides a subset of what is
available in SWT. It uses HTML5-Canvas where available and VML otherwise.
For experiments, you could try to run Draw2D on top of it.
However, I doubt that it will offer the performance that is necessary to
run decent use cases. For you reference, if you search the newsgroup
archive, you will find several more of this or similar discussions.
In my opinion, the Draw2D API is not very well-suited to bring it to the
web as it doesn't entirely hide the SWT GC.
If we had a pure vector-API we could translate these calls directly to
the client-side vector-dawing-facilitis (SVG or VML). They seem to scale
well enough to handle large-scale use cases.

>
> --
> Mickael Istria - BonitaSoft S.A.
> http://www.bonitasoft.com/products/downloads.php


--
Rüdiger Herrmann
http://eclipsesource.com
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #527490 is a reply to message #527170] Thu, 15 April 2010 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Godeau is currently offline Patrick GodeauFriend
Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009
Member
Rüdiger Herrmann wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 06:39

We just finished a GC implementation that provides a subset of what is
available in SWT. It uses HTML5-Canvas where available and VML otherwise.
http://eclipsesource.com


Hello,
Is it possible to test this GC implementation?
Is there a nightly build somewhere?
Thank you,

Patrick
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #527513 is a reply to message #527490] Thu, 15 April 2010 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ralf Sternberg is currently offline Ralf SternbergFriend
Messages: 1313
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member

Hi Patrick,

we currently don't offer nightly builds for download. But you can check
out rwt and rwt.q07 from CVS [1] - or wait for M7, available May 7.

Ralf

[1] http://www.eclipse.org/rap/cvs.php

Patrick Godeau wrote:
> Rüdiger Herrmann wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 06:39
>> We just finished a GC implementation that provides a subset of what is
>> available in SWT. It uses HTML5-Canvas where available and VML otherwise.
>> http://eclipsesource.com
>
>
> Hello,
> Is it possible to test this GC implementation?
> Is there a nightly build somewhere?
> Thank you,
>
> Patrick
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #527518 is a reply to message #527513] Thu, 15 April 2010 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Godeau is currently offline Patrick GodeauFriend
Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ralf Sternberg wrote on Thu, 15 April 2010 09:43

we currently don't offer nightly builds for download. But you can check
out rwt and rwt.q07 from CVS [1] - or wait for M7, available May 7.



Hi Ralf,
Are there instructions somewhere on how to build RAP/RWT from source?
Re: Using Draw2d canvas in RAP [message #527595 is a reply to message #527518] Thu, 15 April 2010 17:30 Go to previous message
Rüdiger Herrmann is currently offline Rüdiger HerrmannFriend
Messages: 581
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On 15.04.2010 15:59, Patrick Godeau wrote:
> Ralf Sternberg wrote on Thu, 15 April 2010 09:43
>> we currently don't offer nightly builds for download. But you can check
>> out rwt and rwt.q07 from CVS [1] - or wait for M7, available May 7.
>
>
> Hi Ralf,
> Are there instructions somewhere on how to build RAP/RWT from source?
>
Please see here:
http://www.eclipse.org/rap/cvs.php
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