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Home » Eclipse Projects » XML Schema Definition (XSD) » Need more documentation
Need more documentation [message #44135] Wed, 12 May 2004 10:55 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: invalid.soft-gems.net

Hi all,

Does anybody know of documentation and examples for the use of the XSD
package? Just learning from trial and error is after a while extremely
tedious and unproductive. The online help does not give much help as it is
only a reference not a documentation.

What I know already are the three pages of common descriptions (and FAQs)
in the online help of which at least one is also available on the web from
the IBM site. The few sample classes only cover a very limited set of
features and do explain almost nothing. I read the schema book written by
Eric van der Vlist and looked through the XSD editor code too. By this way
I found some really nice classes to fill an outline view with the schema
structure. This is so useful, why isn't that documented?

I would very much appreciate any link to docus, FAQs, examples, tutorials
etc.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
Re: Need more documentation [message #44168 is a reply to message #44135] Wed, 12 May 2004 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

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Mike,

Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?

http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php

Including the articles written by Shane and Dave? The only stuff I've
provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than
this. :-(

You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it to
its fullest:

http://www.awprofessional.com/titles/0131425420

The overview of the EMF.Edit support will help you understand the xsd.edit
support:

http://download.eclipse.org/tools/emf/scripts/docs.php?doc=r eferences/overview/EMF.Edit.html

Mike Lischke wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Does anybody know of documentation and examples for the use of the XSD
> package? Just learning from trial and error is after a while extremely
> tedious and unproductive. The online help does not give much help as it is
> only a reference not a documentation.
>
> What I know already are the three pages of common descriptions (and FAQs)
> in the online help of which at least one is also available on the web from
> the IBM site. The few sample classes only cover a very limited set of
> features and do explain almost nothing. I read the schema book written by
> Eric van der Vlist and looked through the XSD editor code too. By this way
> I found some really nice classes to fill an outline view with the schema
> structure. This is so useful, why isn't that documented?
>
> I would very much appreciate any link to docus, FAQs, examples, tutorials
> etc.
>
> Mike
> --
> www.soft-gems.net

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Mike,
<p>Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
<blockquote>&nbsp;<a href="http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php ">http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php </a></blockquote>
Including the articles written by Shane and Dave?&nbsp; The only stuff
I've provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the org.eclipse.xsd.test
plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than this.&nbsp; :-(
<br>&nbsp;
<br>You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it
to its fullest:
<blockquote>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.awprofessional.com/titles/0131425420">http://www.awprofessional.com/titles/0131425420</a></blockquote>
The overview of the EMF.Edit support will help you understand the xsd.edit
support:
<blockquote><a href=" http://download.eclipse.org/tools/emf/scripts/docs.php?doc=r eferences/overview/EMF.Edit.html "> http://download.eclipse.org/tools/emf/scripts/docs.php?doc=r eferences/overview/EMF.Edit.html </a></blockquote>

<p><br>Mike Lischke wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi all,
<p>Does anybody know of documentation and examples for the use of the XSD
<br>package? Just learning from trial and error is after a while extremely
<br>tedious and unproductive. The online help does not give much help as
it is
<br>only a reference not a documentation.
<p>What I know already are the three pages of common descriptions (and
FAQs)
<br>in the online help of which at least one is also available on the web
from
<br>the IBM site. The few sample classes only cover a very limited set
of
<br>features and do explain almost nothing. I read the schema book written
by
<br>Eric van der Vlist and looked through the XSD editor code too. By this
way
<br>I found some really nice classes to fill an outline view with the schema
<br>structure. This is so useful, why isn't that documented?
<p>I would very much appreciate any link to docus, FAQs, examples, tutorials
<br>etc.
<p>Mike
<br>--
<br>www.soft-gems.net</blockquote>
</html>

--------------D03D2311BD00A4DDD57E1263--
Re: Need more documentation [message #44199 is a reply to message #44168] Wed, 12 May 2004 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: invalid.soft-gems.net

Ed Merks wrote:

> Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php

Most of this I know, however I missed the attached example code. I'm
growing old... Thank you for the reminder.

> Including the articles written by Shane and Dave? The only stuff I've
> provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
> org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than
> this. :-(

I much appreciate your help Ed and I know how difficult it is to write
documentation. What I'm still looking for is a description of the whole
picture. How's what why so connected as it is? Why do I need three steps
to find the compositor from a complex type definition instead just one?
How can I get a list of allowed elements and attribute from a type
definition for my editor? Things like that. What I also miss are
independant views from other developers. Sometimes a slight rephrase of an
explanation finally switches on the light.

> You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
> information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it to
> its fullest:

To be honest, I have not the slightest clue about EMF. It scares me to
learn one large library just to understand the basics of yet another large
library. It does not appear very modular to me in the sense that it is
enough to learn only a small part to make a few basic things work and
extend that knowledge later. But maybe I simply should have more patience,
it is only so that I'm used to much faster progress when developing new
things...

Just let me rephrase my question: Do you know any other link related to
the Eclipse XSD package outside the Eclipse and IBM space? One can easily
conclude only IBM developers actually work with that library because so
few external links are available. Hehe, maybe I should write a beginners
tutorial once I got my feet wet :-)

Thank you again.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
Re: Need more documentation [message #44229 is a reply to message #44168] Wed, 12 May 2004 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: invalid.soft-gems.net

Ed Merks wrote:

> Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?

I just realized I missed a bit more than only the sample code, shame on
me. Going to RTFM...

Still, external links are welcome.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
Re: Need more documentation [message #44259 is a reply to message #44199] Wed, 12 May 2004 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

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Mike,

The XSD model is based very closely to the abstract component API that's defined
in the XML Schema spec, so the justification for the model's abstract design is
deferred to the spec; not exactly light reading, but very precise. Higher level
things like what elements and attributes does a type allow is not part of the XSD
API, it's an application and you'll see in the newsgroup that there external
contributors sharing their implementation for this:

http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD

XSD is based on EMF and learning basic concepts about containment verses
reference, resource management, and so on, is important. Relations between models
such as WSDL and XSD are also important to understand. I can see that if you only
want to use XSD in isolation of anything else that you might want something self
contained, but we are building a stack of related models that are tied together by
EMF, so we see that approach as highly modular and with much design reuse.

A review of the addresses of folks asking questions in the newsgroup should tell
you that many external folks are using the API.

Any documentation that you or anyone else cares to contribute would be most
welcome.


Mike Lischke wrote:

> Ed Merks wrote:
>
> > Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
> > http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php
>
> Most of this I know, however I missed the attached example code. I'm
> growing old... Thank you for the reminder.
>
> > Including the articles written by Shane and Dave? The only stuff I've
> > provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
> > org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than
> > this. :-(
>
> I much appreciate your help Ed and I know how difficult it is to write
> documentation. What I'm still looking for is a description of the whole
> picture. How's what why so connected as it is? Why do I need three steps
> to find the compositor from a complex type definition instead just one?
> How can I get a list of allowed elements and attribute from a type
> definition for my editor? Things like that. What I also miss are
> independant views from other developers. Sometimes a slight rephrase of an
> explanation finally switches on the light.
>
> > You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
> > information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it to
> > its fullest:
>
> To be honest, I have not the slightest clue about EMF. It scares me to
> learn one large library just to understand the basics of yet another large
> library. It does not appear very modular to me in the sense that it is
> enough to learn only a small part to make a few basic things work and
> extend that knowledge later. But maybe I simply should have more patience,
> it is only so that I'm used to much faster progress when developing new
> things...
>
> Just let me rephrase my question: Do you know any other link related to
> the Eclipse XSD package outside the Eclipse and IBM space? One can easily
> conclude only IBM developers actually work with that library because so
> few external links are available. Hehe, maybe I should write a beginners
> tutorial once I got my feet wet :-)
>
> Thank you again.
>
> Mike
> --
> www.soft-gems.net

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Mike,
<p>The XSD model is based&nbsp; very closely to the abstract component
API that's defined in the XML Schema spec, so the justification for the
model's abstract design is deferred to the spec; not exactly light reading,
but very precise.&nbsp; Higher level things like what elements and attributes
does a type allow is not part of the XSD API, it's an application and you'll
see in the newsgroup that there external contributors sharing their implementation
for this:
<blockquote>&nbsp;<a href="http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD">http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD</a></blockquote>
XSD is based on EMF and learning basic concepts about containment verses
reference, resource management, and so on, is important.&nbsp; Relations
between models such as WSDL and XSD are also important to understand.&nbsp;
I can see that if you only want to use XSD in isolation of anything else
that you might want something self contained, but we are building a stack
of related models that are tied together by EMF, so we see that approach
as highly modular and with much design reuse.
<p>A review of the addresses of folks asking questions in the newsgroup
should tell you that many external folks are using the API.
<p>Any documentation that you or anyone else cares to contribute would
be most welcome.
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Mike Lischke wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Ed Merks wrote:
<p>> Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
<br>> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php ">http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php </a>
<p>Most of this I know, however I missed the attached example code. I'm
<br>growing old... Thank you for the reminder.
<p>> Including the articles written by Shane and Dave?&nbsp; The only stuff
I've
<br>> provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
<br>> org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide
more than
<br>> this.&nbsp; :-(
<p>I much appreciate your help Ed and I know how difficult it is to write
<br>documentation. What I'm still looking for is a description of the whole
<br>picture. How's what why so connected as it is? Why do I need three
steps
<br>to find the compositor from a complex type definition instead just
one?
<br>How can I get a list of allowed elements and attribute from a type
<br>definition for my editor? Things like that. What I also miss are
<br>independant views from other developers. Sometimes a slight rephrase
of an
<br>explanation finally switches on the light.
<p>> You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
<br>> information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit
it to
<br>> its fullest:
<p>To be honest, I have not the slightest clue about EMF. It scares me
to
<br>learn one large library just to understand the basics of yet another
large
<br>library. It does not appear very modular to me in the sense that it
is
<br>enough to learn only a small part to make a few basic things work and
<br>extend that knowledge later. But maybe I simply should have more patience,
<br>it is only so that I'm used to much faster progress when developing
new
<br>things...
<p>Just let me rephrase my question: Do you know any other link related
to
<br>the Eclipse XSD package outside the Eclipse and IBM space? One can
easily
<br>conclude only IBM developers actually work with that library because
so
<br>few external links are available. Hehe, maybe I should write a beginners
<br>tutorial once I got my feet wet :-)
<p>Thank you again.
<p>Mike
<br>--
<br>www.soft-gems.net</blockquote>
</html>

--------------F18B6BD40156EF6D30AE6AAF--
Re: Need more documentation [message #44288 is a reply to message #44259] Wed, 12 May 2004 14:41 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: invalid.soft-gems.net

Ed,

> The XSD model is based very closely to the abstract component API
> that's defined in the XML Schema spec, so the justification for the
> model's abstract design is deferred to the spec; not exactly light reading,
but very precise.

That's fine with me. I was not asking for simplyfing the library but for
help for easier use.

>Higher level things like what elements and attributes does a type
>allow is not part of the XSD API, it's an application

:-) But what's the sense of this API without any application? You will
answer: "build your application", but that's deferring common tasks to the
user provoking frequent reimplementation of the same thing. IMO building
these higher level interface should be the ultimate goal of such a mighty
library, not giving the stones and planks to the future inhabitant telling
him to build his house first before he can start to live in it. To say it
inordinately: I don't care about what must be done to get e.g. the type
information. My task is to build another application that only uses this
information and is a big project on its own. Currently I'm feeling like
building the cellar instead setting another floor on an existing house
(and I have no clue how to build a cellar).

I'm aware that the XSD library can be used freely and without it I really
had a hard time, so maybe I should shut up and just build my house ;-)

>and you'll see in the newsgroup that there external
> contributors sharing their implementation for this:
> http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD

Thank you. I had seen that already but this library is a couple of classes
without any documentation. Comments in code are very seldom and so it is
rather a riddle. I cannot even see if it can do what I would need. So it
looks like I will start writing a very similar library. Not exactly the
big reuse idea.

> XSD is based on EMF and learning basic concepts about containment verses
> reference, resource management, and so on, is important.

At some point of course, no doubts. But it shouldn't be necessary to know
how potatoes must be sowed to make a bag of pommes frites. IMO this is
simply the task of the underlying framework.

>Relations between models such as WSDL and XSD are also important to
understand.

Sure, I agree. But not when I try to get simple things like a list of type
information.

>I can see that if you only want to use XSD in isolation of anything
>else that you might want something self contained, but we are
>building a stack of related models that are tied together by EMF,
>so we see that approach as highly modular and with much design reuse.

Sure, the library is mainly for your work not for mine. And you are the
author(s) hence you decide how to do things. I must simply sit down and
learn how to use it.

> A review of the addresses of folks asking questions in the
> newsgroup should tell you that many external folks are using the API.

Just try Google with for instance XSDVariety or XSDComplextTypeDefinition.
How many references do you find, which are not located at IBM?

> Any documentation that you or anyone else cares to contribute would be most
> welcome.

:-) I suffer from the same disease as most other programmers. I don't like
writing documentation (but complain aloud about missing docs in other
software :*), but since I do this for years now I will continue to
contribute my knowledge in one or the another form to the public community.

Thanks for the gossip, Ed.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
Re: Need more documentation [message #586953 is a reply to message #44135] Wed, 12 May 2004 11:21 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 31543
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike,

Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?

http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php

Including the articles written by Shane and Dave? The only stuff I've
provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than
this. :-(

You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it to
its fullest:

http://www.awprofessional.com/titles/0131425420

The overview of the EMF.Edit support will help you understand the xsd.edit
support:

http://download.eclipse.org/tools/emf/scripts/docs.php?doc=r eferences/overview/EMF.Edit.html

Mike Lischke wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Does anybody know of documentation and examples for the use of the XSD
> package? Just learning from trial and error is after a while extremely
> tedious and unproductive. The online help does not give much help as it is
> only a reference not a documentation.
>
> What I know already are the three pages of common descriptions (and FAQs)
> in the online help of which at least one is also available on the web from
> the IBM site. The few sample classes only cover a very limited set of
> features and do explain almost nothing. I read the schema book written by
> Eric van der Vlist and looked through the XSD editor code too. By this way
> I found some really nice classes to fill an outline view with the schema
> structure. This is so useful, why isn't that documented?
>
> I would very much appreciate any link to docus, FAQs, examples, tutorials
> etc.
>
> Mike
> --
> www.soft-gems.net

--------------D03D2311BD00A4DDD57E1263
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Mike,
<p>Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
<blockquote>&nbsp;<a href="http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php ">http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php </a></blockquote>
Including the articles written by Shane and Dave?&nbsp; The only stuff
I've provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the org.eclipse.xsd.test
plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than this.&nbsp; :-(
<br>&nbsp;
<br>You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it
to its fullest:
<blockquote>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.awprofessional.com/titles/0131425420">http://www.awprofessional.com/titles/0131425420</a></blockquote>
The overview of the EMF.Edit support will help you understand the xsd.edit
support:
<blockquote><a href=" http://download.eclipse.org/tools/emf/scripts/docs.php?doc=r eferences/overview/EMF.Edit.html "> http://download.eclipse.org/tools/emf/scripts/docs.php?doc=r eferences/overview/EMF.Edit.html </a></blockquote>

<p><br>Mike Lischke wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi all,
<p>Does anybody know of documentation and examples for the use of the XSD
<br>package? Just learning from trial and error is after a while extremely
<br>tedious and unproductive. The online help does not give much help as
it is
<br>only a reference not a documentation.
<p>What I know already are the three pages of common descriptions (and
FAQs)
<br>in the online help of which at least one is also available on the web
from
<br>the IBM site. The few sample classes only cover a very limited set
of
<br>features and do explain almost nothing. I read the schema book written
by
<br>Eric van der Vlist and looked through the XSD editor code too. By this
way
<br>I found some really nice classes to fill an outline view with the schema
<br>structure. This is so useful, why isn't that documented?
<p>I would very much appreciate any link to docus, FAQs, examples, tutorials
<br>etc.
<p>Mike
<br>--
<br>www.soft-gems.net</blockquote>
</html>

--------------D03D2311BD00A4DDD57E1263--


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Need more documentation [message #586967 is a reply to message #44168] Wed, 12 May 2004 12:00 Go to previous message
Mike Lischke is currently offline Mike LischkeFriend
Messages: 78
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ed Merks wrote:

> Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php

Most of this I know, however I missed the attached example code. I'm
growing old... Thank you for the reminder.

> Including the articles written by Shane and Dave? The only stuff I've
> provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
> org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than
> this. :-(

I much appreciate your help Ed and I know how difficult it is to write
documentation. What I'm still looking for is a description of the whole
picture. How's what why so connected as it is? Why do I need three steps
to find the compositor from a complex type definition instead just one?
How can I get a list of allowed elements and attribute from a type
definition for my editor? Things like that. What I also miss are
independant views from other developers. Sometimes a slight rephrase of an
explanation finally switches on the light.

> You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
> information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it to
> its fullest:

To be honest, I have not the slightest clue about EMF. It scares me to
learn one large library just to understand the basics of yet another large
library. It does not appear very modular to me in the sense that it is
enough to learn only a small part to make a few basic things work and
extend that knowledge later. But maybe I simply should have more patience,
it is only so that I'm used to much faster progress when developing new
things...

Just let me rephrase my question: Do you know any other link related to
the Eclipse XSD package outside the Eclipse and IBM space? One can easily
conclude only IBM developers actually work with that library because so
few external links are available. Hehe, maybe I should write a beginners
tutorial once I got my feet wet :-)

Thank you again.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
Re: Need more documentation [message #586981 is a reply to message #44168] Wed, 12 May 2004 12:21 Go to previous message
Mike Lischke is currently offline Mike LischkeFriend
Messages: 78
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ed Merks wrote:

> Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?

I just realized I missed a bit more than only the sample code, shame on
me. Going to RTFM...

Still, external links are welcome.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
Re: Need more documentation [message #586992 is a reply to message #44199] Wed, 12 May 2004 13:35 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 31543
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
--------------F18B6BD40156EF6D30AE6AAF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike,

The XSD model is based very closely to the abstract component API that's defined
in the XML Schema spec, so the justification for the model's abstract design is
deferred to the spec; not exactly light reading, but very precise. Higher level
things like what elements and attributes does a type allow is not part of the XSD
API, it's an application and you'll see in the newsgroup that there external
contributors sharing their implementation for this:

http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD

XSD is based on EMF and learning basic concepts about containment verses
reference, resource management, and so on, is important. Relations between models
such as WSDL and XSD are also important to understand. I can see that if you only
want to use XSD in isolation of anything else that you might want something self
contained, but we are building a stack of related models that are tied together by
EMF, so we see that approach as highly modular and with much design reuse.

A review of the addresses of folks asking questions in the newsgroup should tell
you that many external folks are using the API.

Any documentation that you or anyone else cares to contribute would be most
welcome.


Mike Lischke wrote:

> Ed Merks wrote:
>
> > Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
> > http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php
>
> Most of this I know, however I missed the attached example code. I'm
> growing old... Thank you for the reminder.
>
> > Including the articles written by Shane and Dave? The only stuff I've
> > provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
> > org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide more than
> > this. :-(
>
> I much appreciate your help Ed and I know how difficult it is to write
> documentation. What I'm still looking for is a description of the whole
> picture. How's what why so connected as it is? Why do I need three steps
> to find the compositor from a complex type definition instead just one?
> How can I get a list of allowed elements and attribute from a type
> definition for my editor? Things like that. What I also miss are
> independant views from other developers. Sometimes a slight rephrase of an
> explanation finally switches on the light.
>
> > You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
> > information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit it to
> > its fullest:
>
> To be honest, I have not the slightest clue about EMF. It scares me to
> learn one large library just to understand the basics of yet another large
> library. It does not appear very modular to me in the sense that it is
> enough to learn only a small part to make a few basic things work and
> extend that knowledge later. But maybe I simply should have more patience,
> it is only so that I'm used to much faster progress when developing new
> things...
>
> Just let me rephrase my question: Do you know any other link related to
> the Eclipse XSD package outside the Eclipse and IBM space? One can easily
> conclude only IBM developers actually work with that library because so
> few external links are available. Hehe, maybe I should write a beginners
> tutorial once I got my feet wet :-)
>
> Thank you again.
>
> Mike
> --
> www.soft-gems.net

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Mike,
<p>The XSD model is based&nbsp; very closely to the abstract component
API that's defined in the XML Schema spec, so the justification for the
model's abstract design is deferred to the spec; not exactly light reading,
but very precise.&nbsp; Higher level things like what elements and attributes
does a type allow is not part of the XSD API, it's an application and you'll
see in the newsgroup that there external contributors sharing their implementation
for this:
<blockquote>&nbsp;<a href="http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD">http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD</a></blockquote>
XSD is based on EMF and learning basic concepts about containment verses
reference, resource management, and so on, is important.&nbsp; Relations
between models such as WSDL and XSD are also important to understand.&nbsp;
I can see that if you only want to use XSD in isolation of anything else
that you might want something self contained, but we are building a stack
of related models that are tied together by EMF, so we see that approach
as highly modular and with much design reuse.
<p>A review of the addresses of folks asking questions in the newsgroup
should tell you that many external folks are using the API.
<p>Any documentation that you or anyone else cares to contribute would
be most welcome.
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Mike Lischke wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Ed Merks wrote:
<p>> Have you really looked at all the material on the documents page?
<br>> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php ">http://download.eclipse.org/technology/xsd/scripts/docs.php </a>
<p>Most of this I know, however I missed the attached example code. I'm
<br>growing old... Thank you for the reminder.
<p>> Including the articles written by Shane and Dave?&nbsp; The only stuff
I've
<br>> provided directly myself is the XSDPrototypicalSchema and the
<br>> org.eclipse.xsd.test plugin. I just don't have the time to provide
more than
<br>> this.&nbsp; :-(
<p>I much appreciate your help Ed and I know how difficult it is to write
<br>documentation. What I'm still looking for is a description of the whole
<br>picture. How's what why so connected as it is? Why do I need three
steps
<br>to find the compositor from a complex type definition instead just
one?
<br>How can I get a list of allowed elements and attribute from a type
<br>definition for my editor? Things like that. What I also miss are
<br>independant views from other developers. Sometimes a slight rephrase
of an
<br>explanation finally switches on the light.
<p>> You'll probably find that the EMF book gives you a lot of background
<br>> information that will help to understand the XSD model and to exploit
it to
<br>> its fullest:
<p>To be honest, I have not the slightest clue about EMF. It scares me
to
<br>learn one large library just to understand the basics of yet another
large
<br>library. It does not appear very modular to me in the sense that it
is
<br>enough to learn only a small part to make a few basic things work and
<br>extend that knowledge later. But maybe I simply should have more patience,
<br>it is only so that I'm used to much faster progress when developing
new
<br>things...
<p>Just let me rephrase my question: Do you know any other link related
to
<br>the Eclipse XSD package outside the Eclipse and IBM space? One can
easily
<br>conclude only IBM developers actually work with that library because
so
<br>few external links are available. Hehe, maybe I should write a beginners
<br>tutorial once I got my feet wet :-)
<p>Thank you again.
<p>Mike
<br>--
<br>www.soft-gems.net</blockquote>
</html>

--------------F18B6BD40156EF6D30AE6AAF--


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Need more documentation [message #587011 is a reply to message #44259] Wed, 12 May 2004 14:41 Go to previous message
Mike Lischke is currently offline Mike LischkeFriend
Messages: 78
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ed,

> The XSD model is based very closely to the abstract component API
> that's defined in the XML Schema spec, so the justification for the
> model's abstract design is deferred to the spec; not exactly light reading,
but very precise.

That's fine with me. I was not asking for simplyfing the library but for
help for easier use.

>Higher level things like what elements and attributes does a type
>allow is not part of the XSD API, it's an application

:-) But what's the sense of this API without any application? You will
answer: "build your application", but that's deferring common tasks to the
user provoking frequent reimplementation of the same thing. IMO building
these higher level interface should be the ultimate goal of such a mighty
library, not giving the stones and planks to the future inhabitant telling
him to build his house first before he can start to live in it. To say it
inordinately: I don't care about what must be done to get e.g. the type
information. My task is to build another application that only uses this
information and is a big project on its own. Currently I'm feeling like
building the cellar instead setting another floor on an existing house
(and I have no clue how to build a cellar).

I'm aware that the XSD library can be used freely and without it I really
had a hard time, so maybe I should shut up and just build my house ;-)

>and you'll see in the newsgroup that there external
> contributors sharing their implementation for this:
> http://developer.k-int.com/OpenXSD

Thank you. I had seen that already but this library is a couple of classes
without any documentation. Comments in code are very seldom and so it is
rather a riddle. I cannot even see if it can do what I would need. So it
looks like I will start writing a very similar library. Not exactly the
big reuse idea.

> XSD is based on EMF and learning basic concepts about containment verses
> reference, resource management, and so on, is important.

At some point of course, no doubts. But it shouldn't be necessary to know
how potatoes must be sowed to make a bag of pommes frites. IMO this is
simply the task of the underlying framework.

>Relations between models such as WSDL and XSD are also important to
understand.

Sure, I agree. But not when I try to get simple things like a list of type
information.

>I can see that if you only want to use XSD in isolation of anything
>else that you might want something self contained, but we are
>building a stack of related models that are tied together by EMF,
>so we see that approach as highly modular and with much design reuse.

Sure, the library is mainly for your work not for mine. And you are the
author(s) hence you decide how to do things. I must simply sit down and
learn how to use it.

> A review of the addresses of folks asking questions in the
> newsgroup should tell you that many external folks are using the API.

Just try Google with for instance XSDVariety or XSDComplextTypeDefinition.
How many references do you find, which are not located at IBM?

> Any documentation that you or anyone else cares to contribute would be most
> welcome.

:-) I suffer from the same disease as most other programmers. I don't like
writing documentation (but complain aloud about missing docs in other
software :*), but since I do this for years now I will continue to
contribute my knowledge in one or the another form to the public community.

Thanks for the gossip, Ed.

Mike
--
www.soft-gems.net
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