Home » Modeling » EMF » EMF 2.4 and Eclipse 3.3
| EMF 2.4 and Eclipse 3.3 [message #421880] |
Fri, 15 August 2008 16:55  |
 Abel Mui
Messages: 247
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Hi!
I see on the EMF downloads page that "Eclipse is only required for EMF's
tools. For runtime-only use, only a JRE is required.", so I assumed that
we could use the 2.4 emf runtime (specifically, databinding) with an
Eclipse 3.3 runtime.
However, the databinding plug-ins (and most of its emf dependencies)
require eclipse 3.4 plug-ins (for example, org.eclipse.core.runtime
[3.4.0, 4.0.0).
I've also read that it is possible to "backport" the plug-ins to run on
Eclipse 3.3 and we (Eclipse IAM) are actually using that approach
currently, but I'm not keen on maintaining a branch.
So, I'm wondering if the Eclipse 3.3 compatibility could be done in the
emf project (maybe in a maintenance release?). The change, AFAIK only
affects the MANIFEST.MF file for org.eclipse.emf.databinding and
org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit:
* org.eclipse.core.runtime [3.3.0, 4.0.0) , currently [3.4.0, 4.0.0)
* org.eclipse.emf.ecore [2.3.0, 3.0.0) , currently [2.4.0, 3.0.0)
* org.eclipse.emf.edit [2.3.0, 3.0.0) , currently [2.4.0, 3.0.0)
What do you think? I can file this in bugzilla if it helps.
--
Abel Mui
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| Re: EMF 2.4 and Eclipse 3.3 [message #421888 is a reply to message #421883] |
Sat, 16 August 2008 17:01  |
Thomas Schindl
Messages: 6651
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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From a databinding point of view you need the ones from 3.4 because
there've been bugs fixed in 3.4 in the core of databindings which affect
useability of the EMF-Databinding-Modules.
Tom
Ed Merks schrieb:
> Abel,
>
> It's virtually impossible for me to commit to such things
> "personally." I know a number of folks have back ported the data
> binding plugins so that they work with older versions of EMF and
> Eclipse, but that's not something that's directly supported because my
> team and I have not tested that and the team is so small that we can't
> guarantee it the way we do for EMF 2.4 with Eclipse 3.4. Of course any
> problem that's reproducible in a supported configuration I'll personally
> be more than happy to fix.
>
> Sorry I can't be more accommodating... :-(
>
>
> Abel Muiño Vizcaino wrote:
>> Ed,
>>
>> Thanks for the PSF file. I've checked out the projects and been
>> able to look at them in an Eclipse 3.3 environment.
>>
>> The two plug-ins that we need are org.eclipse.emf.databinding and
>> org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit. Both plug-ins build successfully on
>> an Eclipse 3.3 runtime with org.eclipse.core.databinding 1.1.0 (which
>> I think is part of Ganymede, but only needs org.eclipse.equinox.common
>> 3.2.0 or higher, so it can be installed). No changes to the source
>> code are needed.
>>
>> So it seems that the versions specified for its dependencies are
>> unnecessarily high.
>>
>> Regarding the need of compatibility with 3.3, when 3.4 is
>> available, it comes from products built on top of Eclipse which have
>> not been upgraded. Also, many companies have defined standard
>> developer platforms which they can not upgrade on every release. We
>> would like to reach to those users and reuse the emf databinding
>> plug-ins too.
>>
>> If it is not possible to have the dependency versions lowered in
>> an official emf 2.4 maintenance release, we can explore "cloning" the
>> org.eclipse.emf.databinding* plugins under a different id and setting
>> the dependencies ourselves, but this would come with several drawbacks.
>>
>> Do you think the versions of the dependencies for
>> org.eclipse.emf.databinding and org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit can
>> be officially adjusted to run on Eclipse 3.3? Or shall we go the other
>> way and keep our own branch for them?
>>
>> Abel Muiño.
>>
>> Ed Merks wrote:
>>> Abel,
>>>
>>> Comments below.
>>>
>>> Abel Muiño Vizcaino wrote:
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> I see on the EMF downloads page that "Eclipse is only required for
>>>> EMF's tools. For runtime-only use, only a JRE is required.", so I
>>>> assumed that we could use the 2.4 emf runtime (specifically,
>>>> databinding) with an Eclipse 3.3 runtime.
>>> No, the point is that you can use EMF's jars on a standalone
>>> classpath with no other Eclipse jars on the classpath.
>>>>
>>>> However, the databinding plug-ins (and most of its emf dependencies)
>>>> require eclipse 3.4 plug-ins (for example, org.eclipse.core.runtime
>>>> [3.4.0, 4.0.0).
>>> Yes, when used in an Eclipse environment, the dependencies must be
>>> respected. There were things deprecated in Eclipse 3.4 for which new
>>> alternatives were provided and used by EMF...
>>>>
>>>> I've also read that it is possible to "backport" the plug-ins to run
>>>> on Eclipse 3.3 and we (Eclipse IAM) are actually using that approach
>>>> currently, but I'm not keen on maintaining a branch.
>>> The models generated by EMF 2.4 should work with a 2.3. runtime and
>>> stuff that works with a 2.3 runtime should also work with the 2.4
>>> runtime.
>>>>
>>>> So, I'm wondering if the Eclipse 3.3 compatibility could be done in
>>>> the emf project (maybe in a maintenance release?).
>>> No, I'm pretty sure there were some things new to Eclipse 3.5 that we
>>> used... I don't recall specifically anymore. You could try to
>>> build EMF on Eclipse 3.3 to try it out:
>>> <http://wiki.eclipse.org/EMF/Getting_Source>
>>>
>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/EMF/Getting_Source
>>>
>>> I've attached the PSF for the 2.4 branch; it contains a bunch of
>>> other projects I regularly extract as well. The version ranges
>>> aren't in the CVS source; they are added by the build based on what's
>>> built and tested against.
>>>> The change, AFAIK only affects the MANIFEST.MF file for
>>>> org.eclipse.emf.databinding and org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit:
>>>>
>>>> * org.eclipse.core.runtime [3.3.0, 4.0.0) , currently [3.4.0, 4.0.0)
>>>> * org.eclipse.emf.ecore [2.3.0, 3.0.0) , currently [2.4.0, 3.0.0)
>>>> * org.eclipse.emf.edit [2.3.0, 3.0.0) , currently [2.4.0, 3.0.0)
>>>>
>>>> What do you think? I can file this in bugzilla if it helps.
>>> Given that 3.4 is GA, it's not clear why 3.3 is even an issue...
>>>> --
>>>> Abel Muiño
>>
--
B e s t S o l u t i o n . at
------------------------------------------------------------ --------
Tom Schindl JFace-Committer
------------------------------------------------------------ --------
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| Re: EMF 2.4 and Eclipse 3.3 [message #421890 is a reply to message #421888] |
Sat, 16 August 2008 17:41 |
Abel Mui
Messages: 247
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
It's ok to use the org.eclipse.core.databinding 1.1.0 included in 3.4,
since it can run on top of 3.2 or later.
What's blocking us from using the emf.databainding is its dependency on
org.eclipse.core.runtime 3.4.0, org.eclipse.emf.ecore 2.4.0 and
org.eclipse.emf.ecore 2.4.0, which seems too conservative.
We'll now decide how to handle this (i.e. maintain a copy with lower
version requirements or upgrade to 3.4 as a target platform).
Thanks Ed and Tom for your quick response to this!
Abel Muiño.
Tom Schindl wrote:
> From a databinding point of view you need the ones from 3.4 because
> there've been bugs fixed in 3.4 in the core of databindings which
> affect useability of the EMF-Databinding-Modules.
>
> Tom
>
> Ed Merks schrieb:
>> Abel,
>>
>> It's virtually impossible for me to commit to such things
>> "personally." I know a number of folks have back ported the data
>> binding plugins so that they work with older versions of EMF and
>> Eclipse, but that's not something that's directly supported because
>> my team and I have not tested that and the team is so small that we
>> can't guarantee it the way we do for EMF 2.4 with Eclipse 3.4. Of
>> course any problem that's reproducible in a supported configuration
>> I'll personally be more than happy to fix.
>> Sorry I can't be more accommodating... :-(
>>
>>
>> Abel Muiño Vizcaino wrote:
>>> Ed,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the PSF file. I've checked out the projects and been
>>> able to look at them in an Eclipse 3.3 environment.
>>>
>>> The two plug-ins that we need are org.eclipse.emf.databinding
>>> and org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit. Both plug-ins build
>>> successfully on an Eclipse 3.3 runtime with
>>> org.eclipse.core.databinding 1.1.0 (which I think is part of
>>> Ganymede, but only needs org.eclipse.equinox.common 3.2.0 or higher,
>>> so it can be installed). No changes to the source code are needed.
>>>
>>> So it seems that the versions specified for its dependencies are
>>> unnecessarily high.
>>>
>>> Regarding the need of compatibility with 3.3, when 3.4 is
>>> available, it comes from products built on top of Eclipse which have
>>> not been upgraded. Also, many companies have defined standard
>>> developer platforms which they can not upgrade on every release. We
>>> would like to reach to those users and reuse the emf databinding
>>> plug-ins too.
>>>
>>> If it is not possible to have the dependency versions lowered in
>>> an official emf 2.4 maintenance release, we can explore "cloning"
>>> the org.eclipse.emf.databinding* plugins under a different id and
>>> setting the dependencies ourselves, but this would come with several
>>> drawbacks.
>>>
>>> Do you think the versions of the dependencies for
>>> org.eclipse.emf.databinding and org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit can
>>> be officially adjusted to run on Eclipse 3.3? Or shall we go the
>>> other way and keep our own branch for them?
>>>
>>> Abel Muiño.
>>>
>>> Ed Merks wrote:
>>>> Abel,
>>>>
>>>> Comments below.
>>>>
>>>> Abel Muiño Vizcaino wrote:
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> I see on the EMF downloads page that "Eclipse is only required for
>>>>> EMF's tools. For runtime-only use, only a JRE is required.", so I
>>>>> assumed that we could use the 2.4 emf runtime (specifically,
>>>>> databinding) with an Eclipse 3.3 runtime.
>>>> No, the point is that you can use EMF's jars on a standalone
>>>> classpath with no other Eclipse jars on the classpath.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, the databinding plug-ins (and most of its emf
>>>>> dependencies) require eclipse 3.4 plug-ins (for example,
>>>>> org.eclipse.core.runtime [3.4.0, 4.0.0).
>>>> Yes, when used in an Eclipse environment, the dependencies must be
>>>> respected. There were things deprecated in Eclipse 3.4 for which
>>>> new alternatives were provided and used by EMF...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also read that it is possible to "backport" the plug-ins to
>>>>> run on Eclipse 3.3 and we (Eclipse IAM) are actually using that
>>>>> approach currently, but I'm not keen on maintaining a branch.
>>>> The models generated by EMF 2.4 should work with a 2.3. runtime and
>>>> stuff that works with a 2.3 runtime should also work with the 2.4
>>>> runtime.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I'm wondering if the Eclipse 3.3 compatibility could be done
>>>>> in the emf project (maybe in a maintenance release?).
>>>> No, I'm pretty sure there were some things new to Eclipse 3.5 that
>>>> we used... I don't recall specifically anymore. You could try to
>>>> build EMF on Eclipse 3.3 to try it out:
>>>> <http://wiki.eclipse.org/EMF/Getting_Source>
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/EMF/Getting_Source
>>>>
>>>> I've attached the PSF for the 2.4 branch; it contains a bunch of
>>>> other projects I regularly extract as well. The version ranges
>>>> aren't in the CVS source; they are added by the build based on
>>>> what's built and tested against.
>>>>> The change, AFAIK only affects the MANIFEST.MF file for
>>>>> org.eclipse.emf.databinding and org.eclipse.emf.databinding.edit:
>>>>>
>>>>> * org.eclipse.core.runtime [3.3.0, 4.0.0) , currently [3.4.0,
>>>>> 4.0.0)
>>>>> * org.eclipse.emf.ecore [2.3.0, 3.0.0) , currently [2.4.0, 3.0.0)
>>>>> * org.eclipse.emf.edit [2.3.0, 3.0.0) , currently [2.4.0, 3.0.0)
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think? I can file this in bugzilla if it helps.
>>>> Given that 3.4 is GA, it's not clear why 3.3 is even an issue...
>>>>> --
>>>>> Abel Muiño
>>>
>
>
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