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Maven build / OSGi / Tycho / manifest-first [message #1713251]

Mon, 02 November 2015 19:28

Jeremie Bresson

Messages: 1252
Registered: October 2011

Senior Member

Original location of the question.

Jannik Malken wrote on Thu, 29 October 2015 12:57

As I'm quite inexperienced and new to OSGI, manifest-first-build and Scout etc., I'm having a whole lot of trouble understanding what's going on. But I think this could be a big mess also for seasoned developers.
Preferably I'd like to build my products with Maven and have my external dependencies declared in a pom.xml without the need to create plugin or fragment projects.
For that reason I have overflown the tutorial about setting up a basic scout application with tycho, but that hasn't taken me very far...

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Re: Maven build / OSGi / Tycho / manifest-first [message #1713254 is a reply to message #1713251]

Mon, 02 November 2015 19:51

Jeremie Bresson

Messages: 1252
Registered: October 2011

Senior Member

Well there is a lot in your question...

I had a slide today about all concepts you need to understand if you build on top of the Eclipse Runtime:
index.php/fa/23806/0/

I have tried to explain some of them in this forum:
https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/mv/msg/814365/1426407/#msg_1426407

And you will find other website / books that define them too.

Given this, the traditional approach is that projects on top the Eclipse RT (like Eclipse RCP application or Eclipse Scout application) had already those concepts.

With the help the Tycho plugin for maven, it is possible to have a build based on maven for those projects.

This is far away from typical/simple maven build setups.
If you are looking for a tutorial:
https://wiki.eclipse.org/Scout/Tutorial/5.0/Maven_Tycho_Build
There are also some tycho only (without scout) tutorials.
If you prefer, you can also have a look at our demo applications (5.0.x branch):
https://github.com/BSI-Business-Systems-Integration-AG/org.eclipse.scout.docs/tree/releases/5.0.x/code
(Check for example the contacts application)

The other approach, having a standard maven setup and generate the requested artifacts (like MANIFEST.MF and so on) at build time isn't much simpler. That would be the pom-first approach. I never tried it.

------
We are well aware of those problems, and this was one motivation to remove our dependency to Eclipse RT with the Neon version of Eclipse Scout.

We could share the first results of this move with our users today at the Eclipse Scout User Group Meeting 2015. It looks great!

Attachment: eclipse_concepts.png
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[Updated on: Mon, 02 November 2015 19:56]

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Re: Maven build / OSGi / Tycho / manifest-first [message #1713306 is a reply to message #1713254]

Tue, 03 November 2015 09:22

Jannik Malken

Messages: 44
Registered: October 2015

Member

Hi, Jeremie, thank you very much for your great effort. I won't continue the discussion right now. I will take your post as basis of some further research and will come back to topic in a few days or weeks. As you can see by the flood of my posts, I'm struggling with a lot of different things at the moment Smile

By the way, I also witnessed the proposed changes for the new Scout release. I think most of the changes could lead to greater acceptance and applicability in the community and make things easier to integrate in a more familiar way. But what really lets me down is the missing desktop renderer (if I got that right..). I think standalone desktop applications are still very important for many companies. And there are hundreds or thousands of advanced web frameworks, but in the desktop-segment the range is quite small. Too bad Scout is seemingly not trying to close this gap anymore.
I'm also very curious about how it could be possible to migrate old applications to the new release. As I understand so far, this won't be easy or even possible..

[Updated on: Tue, 03 November 2015 09:25]

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Re: Maven build / OSGi / Tycho / manifest-first [message #1713348 is a reply to message #1713306]

Tue, 03 November 2015 14:33

Jeremie Bresson

Messages: 1252
Registered: October 2011

Senior Member

Jannik Malken wrote on Tue, 03 November 2015 10:22

I'm also very curious about how it could be possible to migrate old applications to the new release. As I understand so far, this won't be easy or even possible..

Matthias Zimmerman just demonstrated it yesterday at the EclipseCon unconference. Slides will be available soon!
https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse_Unconference_Europe_2015#16:00-17:30_Migration_to_Neon

Because of the switch from OSGi to plain java, the project setup is not the same.
Your business logic code can be mostly reused. (BSI has a lot of applications built with scout and therefor the operation needs to be as quick as possible.

You will need to do a set of search and replace command.
You will also need to fix some stuff manually.

What is not clear now is if there will be a tool to do the migration.

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Re: Maven build / OSGi / Tycho / manifest-first [message #1713430 is a reply to message #1713306]

Wed, 04 November 2015 06:22

Jeremie Bresson

Messages: 1252
Registered: October 2011

Senior Member

Jannik Malken wrote on Tue, 03 November 2015 10:22

But what really lets me down is the missing desktop renderer (if I got that right..). I think standalone desktop applications are still very important for many companies. And there are hundreds or thousands of advanced web frameworks, but in the desktop-segment the range is quite small. Too bad Scout is seemingly not trying to close this gap anymore.

See what I wrote here: https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=1010660&goto=1636557&#msg_1636557

The scout project is not something that can be developed as a side project for free...

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