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Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #17158] Sat, 17 June 2006 01:37 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_z.charter.net

I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and am
quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
because this area is still relatively new?



= Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =

Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to work
with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something here?



Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and their
tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides additional
options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both views also appear
to connect individually, and remember their own data sources. I also see
the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords, while the Database
Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a work in progress?



Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available through
WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from the "WST
Relational Database UI"?



= Database connections =

The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to have a
much more robust setup for database connections. I have this working great
with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database manager" from the
outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However, I don't see this for
any of the other types of databases (I'm most interested in DB2 UDB and
Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or am I missing something? I
tried looking for additional plugins, but even after installing just about
everything available in the update manager, I didn't notice any increased
functionality.



Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for example,
assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method currently
available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other search
results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the only ones
currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in that the type 2
would allow me to re-use the same information stored by the DB2
configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep the server
name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)



= Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =

One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my above
install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the Cloudscape
plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*, com.ibm.db.models.*.)



Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)


--
Mark A. Ziesemer
Re: Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #17216 is a reply to message #17158] Tue, 20 June 2006 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: jograham.sybase.com

Hi Mark,

I'll do my best to answer you questions below, but might have to refer
some to other channels.

> I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and am
> quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
> questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
> because this area is still relatively new?

Thanks for the enthusiastism. Yes, DTP is relatively new, and we are just
getting to a stage (the 0.9 release) where the "core" areas are defined.
We do have a number of documents posted on the DTP web site
(www.eclipse.org/datatools), and these will increase over time.

> = Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =

> Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
> need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to work
> with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something here?

DTP essentially represents a consolidation of data-centric frameworks and
tools into a top level project at eclipse.org. WTP contains a set of "rdb"
components, many of which have been ported into DTP (including committer
support). Going forward, DTP will be working with WTP to swap out the
existing WTP/rdb components for those found in WTP today. WTP's planning
around this can be found at

http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Web_Tools_Requirements_2.0 #DTP

Given the size of the task, it will require careful planning and execution
to minimize disruption for existing WTP consumers.

> Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and their
> tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides additional
> options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both views also appear
> to connect individually, and remember their own data sources. I also see
> the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords, while the Database
> Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a work in progress?

The Data Source Explorer (DSE) in DTP has additional use cases beyond what
was present for the Database Explorer in WTP (specifically, to connect to
data sources in general, not just databases). Going forward with the
WTP/DTP integration, we will be working together to attain feature parity
with existing tooling in WTP.

> Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available through
> WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from the "WST
> Relational Database UI"?

Yes, that's right.

> = Database connections =

> The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to have a
> much more robust setup for database connections. I have this working great
> with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database manager" from the
> outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However, I don't see this for
> any of the other types of databases (I'm most interested in DB2 UDB and
> Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or am I missing something? I
> tried looking for additional plugins, but even after installing just about
> everything available in the update manager, I didn't notice any increased
> functionality.

The RC5 build of DTP 0.9 (available today as a separate download, coming
soon in the next Callisto RC release for that update site) has more
database templates listed. In keeping with WTP parity as mentioned above,
we will get DTP to the level that exists in WTP today, and then move
beyond. Specifically, we are trying to address a particular problem that
I've recently blogged about:

http://dataplat.blogspot.com/2006/05/device-driver-problem.h tml

The proposed "Enablement" project (linked from the blog), will be the
channel through which increasingly sophisticated support for specific data
sources will be delivered.

> Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for example,
> assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method currently
> available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other search
> results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the only ones
> currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in that the type 2
> would allow me to re-use the same information stored by the DB2
> configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep the server
> name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)

For the time being, the generic JDBC connection support is the best option
here, though we expect to have a better story when the Enablement project
gets going....

> = Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =

> One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
> supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
> provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my above
> install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the Cloudscape
> plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*, com.ibm.db.models.*.)

We haven't been targeting this replacement specifically. You might want to
ask the Cloudscape Workbench directly about this, since I don't have any
further information on this point.

> Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)

No, thank you! And we're always looking for additional help in DTP, so...

HTH,
John Graham
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Re: Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #17300 is a reply to message #17216] Tue, 20 June 2006 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_z.charter.net

Wow, thanks for the detailed response - very appreciated! At least I know
I'm on the right track with things now. I'm very glad to hear that DTP will
be working together with WTP for a richer platform in the end.

I regret not having as much time as I'd like to contribute code-wise. I
have been working on a few plugins for other things in Eclipse, and am still
becoming more familiar with the framework, and submit (and try to dig into)
bug reports as I come across them. Due to work interests, I may see what I
can do to contribute to the enablement project for DB2!

Thanks again!

--
Mark A. Ziesemer

"John Graham" <jograham@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:6e495d737bf99dd52ea9f7e13d752324$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Hi Mark,
>
> I'll do my best to answer you questions below, but might have to refer
> some to other channels.
>
>> I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and
>> am quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
>> questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
>> because this area is still relatively new?
>
> Thanks for the enthusiastism. Yes, DTP is relatively new, and we are just
> getting to a stage (the 0.9 release) where the "core" areas are defined.
> We do have a number of documents posted on the DTP web site
> (www.eclipse.org/datatools), and these will increase over time.
>
>> = Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =
>
>> Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
>> need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to
>> work with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something
>> here?
>
> DTP essentially represents a consolidation of data-centric frameworks and
> tools into a top level project at eclipse.org. WTP contains a set of "rdb"
> components, many of which have been ported into DTP (including committer
> support). Going forward, DTP will be working with WTP to swap out the
> existing WTP/rdb components for those found in WTP today. WTP's planning
> around this can be found at
>
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Web_Tools_Requirements_2.0 #DTP
> Given the size of the task, it will require careful planning and execution
> to minimize disruption for existing WTP consumers.
>
>> Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and
>> their tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides
>> additional options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both
>> views also appear to connect individually, and remember their own data
>> sources. I also see the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords,
>> while the Database Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a
>> work in progress?
>
> The Data Source Explorer (DSE) in DTP has additional use cases beyond what
> was present for the Database Explorer in WTP (specifically, to connect to
> data sources in general, not just databases). Going forward with the
> WTP/DTP integration, we will be working together to attain feature parity
> with existing tooling in WTP.
>
>> Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available
>> through WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from
>> the "WST Relational Database UI"?
>
> Yes, that's right.
>
>> = Database connections =
>
>> The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to
>> have a much more robust setup for database connections. I have this
>> working great with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database
>> manager" from the outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However,
>> I don't see this for any of the other types of databases (I'm most
>> interested in DB2 UDB and Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or
>> am I missing something? I tried looking for additional plugins, but even
>> after installing just about everything available in the update manager, I
>> didn't notice any increased functionality.
>
> The RC5 build of DTP 0.9 (available today as a separate download, coming
> soon in the next Callisto RC release for that update site) has more
> database templates listed. In keeping with WTP parity as mentioned above,
> we will get DTP to the level that exists in WTP today, and then move
> beyond. Specifically, we are trying to address a particular problem that
> I've recently blogged about:
>
> http://dataplat.blogspot.com/2006/05/device-driver-problem.h tml
>
> The proposed "Enablement" project (linked from the blog), will be the
> channel through which increasingly sophisticated support for specific data
> sources will be delivered.
>
>> Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for
>> example, assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method
>> currently available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other
>> search results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the
>> only ones currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in
>> that the type 2 would allow me to re-use the same information stored by
>> the DB2 configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep
>> the server name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)
>
> For the time being, the generic JDBC connection support is the best option
> here, though we expect to have a better story when the Enablement project
> gets going....
>
>> = Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =
>
>> One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
>> supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
>> provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my
>> above install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the
>> Cloudscape plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*,
>> com.ibm.db.models.*.)
>
> We haven't been targeting this replacement specifically. You might want to
> ask the Cloudscape Workbench directly about this, since I don't have any
> further information on this point.
>
>> Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)
>
> No, thank you! And we're always looking for additional help in DTP, so...
>
> HTH,
> John Graham
> Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
>
Re: Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #17348 is a reply to message #17158] Fri, 23 June 2006 00:41 Go to previous message
Gilles Roux is currently offline Gilles RouxFriend
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Mark,

Here are a few answers about your Cloudscape Workbench questions:

> I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and am
> quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
> questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
> because this area is still relatively new?


> = Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =

> Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
> need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to work
> with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something here?

> Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and their
> tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides additional
> options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both views also appear
> to connect individually, and remember their own data sources. I also see
> the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords, while the Database
> Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a work in progress?

> Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available through
> WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from the "WST
> Relational Database UI"?

> = Database connections =

> The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to have a
> much more robust setup for database connections. I have this working great
> with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database manager" from the
> outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However, I don't see this for
> any of the other types of databases (I'm most interested in DB2 UDB and
> Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or am I missing something? I
> tried looking for additional plugins, but even after installing just about
> everything available in the update manager, I didn't notice any increased
> functionality.

> Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for example,
> assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method currently
> available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other search
> results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the only ones
> currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in that the type 2
> would allow me to re-use the same information stored by the DB2
> configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep the server
> name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)

> = Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =

> One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
> supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
> provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my above
> install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the Cloudscape
> plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*, com.ibm.db.models.*.)

The Cloudscape Workbench is based on WTP and more precisely on the RDB
component of WTP. It contains the Database Explorer, the Data Output view,
SQL editor, the Data editor... As John mentioned the DTP project will
ultimately replace all of these features.

This tool also contains a few features that are not open source, mainly
DB2 connectivity. This means that when using the Cloudscape Workbench, the
Connection wizard has an additional vendor in the tree, allowing you to
connect to DB2. I believe it is possible to connect to DB2 using a generic
JDBC connection (Using the 'Other' driver), but not all the objects will
be shown (eg: Store procedures, triggers) as they are not included in the
JDBC catalog.

Technically, the DB2 connectivity plugins are fully compatible with WTP
(not with DTP), but merging the plugins is probably against the CW license.

> Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)Mark,

Gilles Roux.
Re: Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #579761 is a reply to message #17158] Tue, 20 June 2006 15:12 Go to previous message
John Graham is currently offline John GrahamFriend
Messages: 183
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Mark,

I'll do my best to answer you questions below, but might have to refer
some to other channels.

> I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and am
> quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
> questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
> because this area is still relatively new?

Thanks for the enthusiastism. Yes, DTP is relatively new, and we are just
getting to a stage (the 0.9 release) where the "core" areas are defined.
We do have a number of documents posted on the DTP web site
(www.eclipse.org/datatools), and these will increase over time.

> = Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =

> Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
> need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to work
> with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something here?

DTP essentially represents a consolidation of data-centric frameworks and
tools into a top level project at eclipse.org. WTP contains a set of "rdb"
components, many of which have been ported into DTP (including committer
support). Going forward, DTP will be working with WTP to swap out the
existing WTP/rdb components for those found in WTP today. WTP's planning
around this can be found at

http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Web_Tools_Requirements_2.0 #DTP

Given the size of the task, it will require careful planning and execution
to minimize disruption for existing WTP consumers.

> Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and their
> tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides additional
> options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both views also appear
> to connect individually, and remember their own data sources. I also see
> the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords, while the Database
> Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a work in progress?

The Data Source Explorer (DSE) in DTP has additional use cases beyond what
was present for the Database Explorer in WTP (specifically, to connect to
data sources in general, not just databases). Going forward with the
WTP/DTP integration, we will be working together to attain feature parity
with existing tooling in WTP.

> Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available through
> WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from the "WST
> Relational Database UI"?

Yes, that's right.

> = Database connections =

> The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to have a
> much more robust setup for database connections. I have this working great
> with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database manager" from the
> outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However, I don't see this for
> any of the other types of databases (I'm most interested in DB2 UDB and
> Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or am I missing something? I
> tried looking for additional plugins, but even after installing just about
> everything available in the update manager, I didn't notice any increased
> functionality.

The RC5 build of DTP 0.9 (available today as a separate download, coming
soon in the next Callisto RC release for that update site) has more
database templates listed. In keeping with WTP parity as mentioned above,
we will get DTP to the level that exists in WTP today, and then move
beyond. Specifically, we are trying to address a particular problem that
I've recently blogged about:

http://dataplat.blogspot.com/2006/05/device-driver-problem.h tml

The proposed "Enablement" project (linked from the blog), will be the
channel through which increasingly sophisticated support for specific data
sources will be delivered.

> Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for example,
> assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method currently
> available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other search
> results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the only ones
> currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in that the type 2
> would allow me to re-use the same information stored by the DB2
> configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep the server
> name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)

For the time being, the generic JDBC connection support is the best option
here, though we expect to have a better story when the Enablement project
gets going....

> = Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =

> One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
> supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
> provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my above
> install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the Cloudscape
> plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*, com.ibm.db.models.*.)

We haven't been targeting this replacement specifically. You might want to
ask the Cloudscape Workbench directly about this, since I don't have any
further information on this point.

> Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)

No, thank you! And we're always looking for additional help in DTP, so...

HTH,
John Graham
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Re: Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #579827 is a reply to message #17216] Tue, 20 June 2006 22:16 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_z.charter.net

Wow, thanks for the detailed response - very appreciated! At least I know
I'm on the right track with things now. I'm very glad to hear that DTP will
be working together with WTP for a richer platform in the end.

I regret not having as much time as I'd like to contribute code-wise. I
have been working on a few plugins for other things in Eclipse, and am still
becoming more familiar with the framework, and submit (and try to dig into)
bug reports as I come across them. Due to work interests, I may see what I
can do to contribute to the enablement project for DB2!

Thanks again!

--
Mark A. Ziesemer

"John Graham" <jograham@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:6e495d737bf99dd52ea9f7e13d752324$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Hi Mark,
>
> I'll do my best to answer you questions below, but might have to refer
> some to other channels.
>
>> I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and
>> am quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
>> questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
>> because this area is still relatively new?
>
> Thanks for the enthusiastism. Yes, DTP is relatively new, and we are just
> getting to a stage (the 0.9 release) where the "core" areas are defined.
> We do have a number of documents posted on the DTP web site
> (www.eclipse.org/datatools), and these will increase over time.
>
>> = Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =
>
>> Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
>> need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to
>> work with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something
>> here?
>
> DTP essentially represents a consolidation of data-centric frameworks and
> tools into a top level project at eclipse.org. WTP contains a set of "rdb"
> components, many of which have been ported into DTP (including committer
> support). Going forward, DTP will be working with WTP to swap out the
> existing WTP/rdb components for those found in WTP today. WTP's planning
> around this can be found at
>
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Web_Tools_Requirements_2.0 #DTP
> Given the size of the task, it will require careful planning and execution
> to minimize disruption for existing WTP consumers.
>
>> Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and
>> their tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides
>> additional options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both
>> views also appear to connect individually, and remember their own data
>> sources. I also see the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords,
>> while the Database Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a
>> work in progress?
>
> The Data Source Explorer (DSE) in DTP has additional use cases beyond what
> was present for the Database Explorer in WTP (specifically, to connect to
> data sources in general, not just databases). Going forward with the
> WTP/DTP integration, we will be working together to attain feature parity
> with existing tooling in WTP.
>
>> Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available
>> through WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from
>> the "WST Relational Database UI"?
>
> Yes, that's right.
>
>> = Database connections =
>
>> The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to
>> have a much more robust setup for database connections. I have this
>> working great with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database
>> manager" from the outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However,
>> I don't see this for any of the other types of databases (I'm most
>> interested in DB2 UDB and Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or
>> am I missing something? I tried looking for additional plugins, but even
>> after installing just about everything available in the update manager, I
>> didn't notice any increased functionality.
>
> The RC5 build of DTP 0.9 (available today as a separate download, coming
> soon in the next Callisto RC release for that update site) has more
> database templates listed. In keeping with WTP parity as mentioned above,
> we will get DTP to the level that exists in WTP today, and then move
> beyond. Specifically, we are trying to address a particular problem that
> I've recently blogged about:
>
> http://dataplat.blogspot.com/2006/05/device-driver-problem.h tml
>
> The proposed "Enablement" project (linked from the blog), will be the
> channel through which increasingly sophisticated support for specific data
> sources will be delivered.
>
>> Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for
>> example, assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method
>> currently available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other
>> search results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the
>> only ones currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in
>> that the type 2 would allow me to re-use the same information stored by
>> the DB2 configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep
>> the server name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)
>
> For the time being, the generic JDBC connection support is the best option
> here, though we expect to have a better story when the Enablement project
> gets going....
>
>> = Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =
>
>> One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
>> supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
>> provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my
>> above install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the
>> Cloudscape plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*,
>> com.ibm.db.models.*.)
>
> We haven't been targeting this replacement specifically. You might want to
> ask the Cloudscape Workbench directly about this, since I don't have any
> further information on this point.
>
>> Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)
>
> No, thank you! And we're always looking for additional help in DTP, so...
>
> HTH,
> John Graham
> Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
>
Re: Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer, other starting questions... [message #579865 is a reply to message #17158] Fri, 23 June 2006 00:41 Go to previous message
Gilles Roux is currently offline Gilles RouxFriend
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Mark,

Here are a few answers about your Cloudscape Workbench questions:

> I just started looking into DTP, primarily for use with Apache Derby, and am
> quite pleased with what I've seen so far. I have just a few nagging
> questions, which I can't seem to find much information on - probably just
> because this area is still relatively new?


> = Database Explorer vs. Data Source Explorer =

> Why do both of these exist? The Database Explorer seems to eliminate any
> need for the Data Source Explorer, and is more what I'm looking for to work
> with SQL against a database, or am I completely missing something here?

> Both views display outlines of various databases, their schemas, and their
> tables, views, etc. However, the Database Explorer also provides additional
> options to sample the data, open in SQL Editor, etc. Both views also appear
> to connect individually, and remember their own data sources. I also see
> the Data Source Explorer allows for saved passwords, while the Database
> Explorer does not. Is all of this just because of a work in progress?

> Am I correct that the Database Explorer is currently only available through
> WST (the Web Standard Tools)? If so, I'm assuming it comes from the "WST
> Relational Database UI"?

> = Database connections =

> The Database Explorer (compared to the Data Source Explorer) seems to have a
> much more robust setup for database connections. I have this working great
> with Derby. Note that when selecting the Derby "database manager" from the
> outline, various JDBC drivers are available. However, I don't see this for
> any of the other types of databases (I'm most interested in DB2 UDB and
> Oracle). Are these just not available yet, or am I missing something? I
> tried looking for additional plugins, but even after installing just about
> everything available in the update manager, I didn't notice any increased
> functionality.

> Finally, what is the recommended method for connecting to DB2, for example,
> assuming the generic "Other" JDBC driver is the only method currently
> available? Judging from a few Eclipse Bugs reports and other search
> results, am I correct in that JDBC Type 4 drivers are really the only ones
> currently working properly? (Additionally, am I correct in that the type 2
> would allow me to re-use the same information stored by the DB2
> configuration assistant within Windows, so I don't have to keep the server
> name, port, etc., in 2 different locations?)

> = Apache Derby (IBM Cloudscape) =

> One more last question - am I correct in that these tools pretty much
> supersede the "IBM Cloudscape Workbench"? Or would something from here
> provide better DB2 support? (When I tried merging the plugins into my above
> install with WST and DTP, it seemed that everything from the Cloudscape
> plugins were ignored: com.ibm.datatools.*, com.ibm.db.models.*.)

The Cloudscape Workbench is based on WTP and more precisely on the RDB
component of WTP. It contains the Database Explorer, the Data Output view,
SQL editor, the Data editor... As John mentioned the DTP project will
ultimately replace all of these features.

This tool also contains a few features that are not open source, mainly
DB2 connectivity. This means that when using the Cloudscape Workbench, the
Connection wizard has an additional vendor in the tree, allowing you to
connect to DB2. I believe it is possible to connect to DB2 using a generic
JDBC connection (Using the 'Other' driver), but not all the objects will
be shown (eg: Store procedures, triggers) as they are not included in the
JDBC catalog.

Technically, the DB2 connectivity plugins are fully compatible with WTP
(not with DTP), but merging the plugins is probably against the CW license.

> Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm both enthusiastic and lost. :-)Mark,

Gilles Roux.
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