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RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72549] Sun, 11 June 2006 13:12 Go to next message
Dan Connelly is currently offline Dan Connelly
Messages: 66
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi:

I would like to see more discussion on the possibilities of Wicket
integration with RAP+RSP.

Wicket pages are (X)HTML files with <span> markers where the Wicket Java
components will be rendered. RAP has Java-only components.

HTML templates allow easy integration with 3rd party page design tools.
Since programmers are rarely good page designers, and since page
designers should be allowed tool(s) of their own choosing, Wicket's HTML
page templates strike me as a "good thing" for page/app integration.

On the other hand, Wicket UI is geared to a Swing/AWT interface while
Eclipse code development (for RCP) is geared toward JFace/SWT.

How and when (if at all) will RAP+RSP allow me to use Wicket-style HTML
page templates for RAP Widgets (or some other JFace/SWT component package)?

-- Dan
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72617 is a reply to message #72549] Mon, 12 June 2006 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Neubauer is currently offline Peter Neubauer
Messages: 21
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Dan,
in RSP we are working on the integration of Wicket as one of the
possible web frameworks to write Views, Perspectives etc in. We have not come
to show anything useful in the RSP space, but much of the base work is
done with regard to being able to assemble any wicket page or component
from different OSGi modules. You can use that as is right now, before we
call the RSP commands, actions etc from Wicket views. More details on
that over at OPS4J:http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:wicket

If you want to chip in, getting the RSP to work right off the SVN repo
is very easy, let me know and we can arrange something!
/peter


Dan Connelly <dsconnelly@adelphia.net> wrote:
>Hi:
>
>I would like to see more discussion on the possibilities of Wicket
>integration with RAP+RSP.
>
>Wicket pages are (X)HTML files with <span> markers where the Wicket Java
>components will be rendered. RAP has Java-only components.
>
>HTML templates allow easy integration with 3rd party page design tools.
> Since programmers are rarely good page designers, and since page
>designers should be allowed tool(s) of their own choosing, Wicket's HTML
>page templates strike me as a "good thing" for page/app integration.
>
>On the other hand, Wicket UI is geared to a Swing/AWT interface while
>Eclipse code development (for RCP) is geared toward JFace/SWT.
>
>How and when (if at all) will RAP+RSP allow me to use Wicket-style HTML
>page templates for RAP Widgets (or some other JFace/SWT component package)?
>
> -- Dan
>
>
>



--
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72632 is a reply to message #72617] Tue, 13 June 2006 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niclas Hedhman is currently offline Niclas Hedhman
Messages: 4
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Peter Neubauer wrote:

> in RSP we are working on the integration of Wicket as one of the
> possible web frameworks to write Views, Perspectives etc in. We have not
> come to show anything useful in the RSP space, but much of the base work
> is done with regard to being able to assemble any wicket page or component
> from different OSGi modules. You can use that as is right now, before we
> call the RSP commands, actions etc from Wicket views. More details on
> that over at OPS4J:http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:wicket

Dan,
I am working on moving the Wiki content over to a more permanently generated
website at http://www.ops4j.org/projects/pax/wicket/
Sorry if you find there to still be too many holes, in which case the Wiki
page is better.

That being said, let me try to elaborate on the RSP-UI approach vs what Pax
Wicket is trying to accomplish.

RSP-UI is all about leveraging 10 years of Java web development experience,
and allow for these technologies to co-exist and collaborate. Each
rendering technology becomes a "thick" component inside a view of the
RSP-UI workbench (hope I am using the right terminology ;o/). The approach
is fairly rigid, and therefor allows almost any technology to be
integrated, and Wicket is not any different.

Pax Wicket is what I hope will become (part of) RSP-UI v 2.0, where we can
compose pages from components and large components by assembling smaller
components, all in the beautiful runtime fashion we know as OSGi. Where the
granularity is much finer, and allows for a greater level of re-use among
similar server projects.

We do that already in Pax Wicket. Put arbitrary components in bundles,
assign their destinations in runtime, or move things from one place to
another, reload components without bringing down the server, extend the
application with new panels just by starting up new bundles.
Wicket has the necessary hooks to support the OSGi platform, and with our
help the Wicket team is ironing out the relatively small changes needed to
support OSGi in this fashion. It is good to see that such a strong
commitment from the Wicket team exist, and I am confident Wicket will
become the choice for many, maybe most, aspiring web developers on OSGi.

I can't speak for what RAP is doing, as I don't follow their progress.


Cheers
Niclas
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72711 is a reply to message #72632] Thu, 15 June 2006 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Connelly is currently offline Dan Connelly
Messages: 66
Registered: July 2009
Member
Thanks to Peter and Niclas for the helpful responses. Let me see if I
have this right.

1) I should have said "RSP-UI" (not just RSP) since the project focus
is on attaching UI technologies to the OSGi service bus. RSP-UI does
not specify the business component framework. (ECF does that.)

2) Pax Wicket is open-ended on its coupling wiht the Business
Componets. The one example given shows a tight coupling to Java
business classes. (More tightly coupled than generally seen in RCP
JFace programming.)

3) RAP/W4T is an alternative UI Component technology which will
probably NOT share OSGi extensions points with RSP-UI in the near future.

4) ECF (for example) will provide OSGi business components for OSGi
application integration These components can be accessed from a
variety of presentation+editing stacks,such as: Pax Wicket, RAP/W4T or
JFace/SWT.

5) RSP-UI Proposal: "offer integration facilities" over the variety
rendering stacks.

What I am not seeing at this point is the depth of integration and/or
commonality in the target UI stacks. In particular, it is not clear
how an ECF/RCP application might be rendered (or integrated?) using Pax
Wicket.

-- Dan



Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Peter Neubauer wrote:
>
>
>>in RSP we are working on the integration of Wicket as one of the
>>possible web frameworks to write Views, Perspectives etc in. We have not
>>come to show anything useful in the RSP space, but much of the base work
>>is done with regard to being able to assemble any wicket page or component
>>from different OSGi modules. You can use that as is right now, before we
>>call the RSP commands, actions etc from Wicket views. More details on
>>that over at OPS4J:http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:wicket
>
>
> Dan,
> I am working on moving the Wiki content over to a more permanently generated
> website at http://www.ops4j.org/projects/pax/wicket/
> Sorry if you find there to still be too many holes, in which case the Wiki
> page is better.
>
> That being said, let me try to elaborate on the RSP-UI approach vs what Pax
> Wicket is trying to accomplish.
>
> RSP-UI is all about leveraging 10 years of Java web development experience,
> and allow for these technologies to co-exist and collaborate. Each
> rendering technology becomes a "thick" component inside a view of the
> RSP-UI workbench (hope I am using the right terminology ;o/). The approach
> is fairly rigid, and therefor allows almost any technology to be
> integrated, and Wicket is not any different.
>
> Pax Wicket is what I hope will become (part of) RSP-UI v 2.0, where we can
> compose pages from components and large components by assembling smaller
> components, all in the beautiful runtime fashion we know as OSGi. Where the
> granularity is much finer, and allows for a greater level of re-use among
> similar server projects.
>
> We do that already in Pax Wicket. Put arbitrary components in bundles,
> assign their destinations in runtime, or move things from one place to
> another, reload components without bringing down the server, extend the
> application with new panels just by starting up new bundles.
> Wicket has the necessary hooks to support the OSGi platform, and with our
> help the Wicket team is ironing out the relatively small changes needed to
> support OSGi in this fashion. It is good to see that such a strong
> commitment from the Wicket team exist, and I am confident Wicket will
> become the choice for many, maybe most, aspiring web developers on OSGi.
>
> I can't speak for what RAP is doing, as I don't follow their progress.
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72721 is a reply to message #72632] Thu, 15 June 2006 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Connelly is currently offline Dan Connelly
Messages: 66
Registered: July 2009
Member
In previous post I should have cited ECP as the source of business
components, not ECF. (Eclipse Component Platform, was Framework).

But I appear to be wrong there. ECP appears to be mainly another UI
component, Java Server Faces components in this case.

My final paragraph in that post, where I am looking for more info on
commonality or integration in the UI stacks, would be addressed by
further discussion of the RSP-UI scope item:

"UI Composition Framework" (Ecosystem diagram)

This appears to be a deliverable from Vetta Technologies. Is there any
early access download for code or javadoc on this framework?

-- Dan
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72790 is a reply to message #72721] Sun, 18 June 2006 07:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: giacomin.vettatech.com

Hi Dan,

Thank you for your interest on RSP-UI. There is a quick start doc for the
project saying how to get the code from SVN and how to put it running.
I'll manage to have this sent to you tomorrow (it is being reviewed right
now).

Regards,
Ricardo Giacomin.
Vetta Technologies.
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72847 is a reply to message #72721] Fri, 23 June 2006 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: renan.vettatech.com

Dan,
Please contact me at renancamponez@gmail.com , so I can send you the
document Ricardo has promissed.

Thanks,
Renan

"Dan Connelly" <dsconnelly@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:e6ssra$33d$1@utils.eclipse.org...
> In previous post I should have cited ECP as the source of business
> components, not ECF. (Eclipse Component Platform, was Framework).
>
> But I appear to be wrong there. ECP appears to be mainly another UI
> component, Java Server Faces components in this case.
>
> My final paragraph in that post, where I am looking for more info on
> commonality or integration in the UI stacks, would be addressed by further
> discussion of the RSP-UI scope item:
>
> "UI Composition Framework" (Ecosystem diagram)
>
> This appears to be a deliverable from Vetta Technologies. Is there any
> early access download for code or javadoc on this framework?
>
> -- Dan
>
>
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72865 is a reply to message #72847] Fri, 23 June 2006 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wolfgang Gehner is currently offline Wolfgang Gehner
Messages: 26
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
... where xxxxxxxx stands for vettatech.com
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #72883 is a reply to message #72865] Fri, 23 June 2006 16:11 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: giacomin.vettatech.com

No, you should use renancamponez at gmail.com or renan at vettatech.com.

Ricardo.
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600734 is a reply to message #72549] Mon, 12 June 2006 14:08 Go to previous message
Peter Neubauer is currently offline Peter Neubauer
Messages: 21
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Dan,
in RSP we are working on the integration of Wicket as one of the
possible web frameworks to write Views, Perspectives etc in. We have not come
to show anything useful in the RSP space, but much of the base work is
done with regard to being able to assemble any wicket page or component
from different OSGi modules. You can use that as is right now, before we
call the RSP commands, actions etc from Wicket views. More details on
that over at OPS4J:http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:wicket

If you want to chip in, getting the RSP to work right off the SVN repo
is very easy, let me know and we can arrange something!
/peter


Dan Connelly <dsconnelly@adelphia.net> wrote:
>Hi:
>
>I would like to see more discussion on the possibilities of Wicket
>integration with RAP+RSP.
>
>Wicket pages are (X)HTML files with <span> markers where the Wicket Java
>components will be rendered. RAP has Java-only components.
>
>HTML templates allow easy integration with 3rd party page design tools.
> Since programmers are rarely good page designers, and since page
>designers should be allowed tool(s) of their own choosing, Wicket's HTML
>page templates strike me as a "good thing" for page/app integration.
>
>On the other hand, Wicket UI is geared to a Swing/AWT interface while
>Eclipse code development (for RCP) is geared toward JFace/SWT.
>
>How and when (if at all) will RAP+RSP allow me to use Wicket-style HTML
>page templates for RAP Widgets (or some other JFace/SWT component package)?
>
> -- Dan
>
>
>



--
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600742 is a reply to message #72617] Tue, 13 June 2006 03:30 Go to previous message
Niclas Hedhman is currently offline Niclas Hedhman
Messages: 4
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Peter Neubauer wrote:

> in RSP we are working on the integration of Wicket as one of the
> possible web frameworks to write Views, Perspectives etc in. We have not
> come to show anything useful in the RSP space, but much of the base work
> is done with regard to being able to assemble any wicket page or component
> from different OSGi modules. You can use that as is right now, before we
> call the RSP commands, actions etc from Wicket views. More details on
> that over at OPS4J:http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:wicket

Dan,
I am working on moving the Wiki content over to a more permanently generated
website at http://www.ops4j.org/projects/pax/wicket/
Sorry if you find there to still be too many holes, in which case the Wiki
page is better.

That being said, let me try to elaborate on the RSP-UI approach vs what Pax
Wicket is trying to accomplish.

RSP-UI is all about leveraging 10 years of Java web development experience,
and allow for these technologies to co-exist and collaborate. Each
rendering technology becomes a "thick" component inside a view of the
RSP-UI workbench (hope I am using the right terminology ;o/). The approach
is fairly rigid, and therefor allows almost any technology to be
integrated, and Wicket is not any different.

Pax Wicket is what I hope will become (part of) RSP-UI v 2.0, where we can
compose pages from components and large components by assembling smaller
components, all in the beautiful runtime fashion we know as OSGi. Where the
granularity is much finer, and allows for a greater level of re-use among
similar server projects.

We do that already in Pax Wicket. Put arbitrary components in bundles,
assign their destinations in runtime, or move things from one place to
another, reload components without bringing down the server, extend the
application with new panels just by starting up new bundles.
Wicket has the necessary hooks to support the OSGi platform, and with our
help the Wicket team is ironing out the relatively small changes needed to
support OSGi in this fashion. It is good to see that such a strong
commitment from the Wicket team exist, and I am confident Wicket will
become the choice for many, maybe most, aspiring web developers on OSGi.

I can't speak for what RAP is doing, as I don't follow their progress.


Cheers
Niclas
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600778 is a reply to message #72632] Thu, 15 June 2006 12:27 Go to previous message
Dan Connelly is currently offline Dan Connelly
Messages: 66
Registered: July 2009
Member
Thanks to Peter and Niclas for the helpful responses. Let me see if I
have this right.

1) I should have said "RSP-UI" (not just RSP) since the project focus
is on attaching UI technologies to the OSGi service bus. RSP-UI does
not specify the business component framework. (ECF does that.)

2) Pax Wicket is open-ended on its coupling wiht the Business
Componets. The one example given shows a tight coupling to Java
business classes. (More tightly coupled than generally seen in RCP
JFace programming.)

3) RAP/W4T is an alternative UI Component technology which will
probably NOT share OSGi extensions points with RSP-UI in the near future.

4) ECF (for example) will provide OSGi business components for OSGi
application integration These components can be accessed from a
variety of presentation+editing stacks,such as: Pax Wicket, RAP/W4T or
JFace/SWT.

5) RSP-UI Proposal: "offer integration facilities" over the variety
rendering stacks.

What I am not seeing at this point is the depth of integration and/or
commonality in the target UI stacks. In particular, it is not clear
how an ECF/RCP application might be rendered (or integrated?) using Pax
Wicket.

-- Dan



Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Peter Neubauer wrote:
>
>
>>in RSP we are working on the integration of Wicket as one of the
>>possible web frameworks to write Views, Perspectives etc in. We have not
>>come to show anything useful in the RSP space, but much of the base work
>>is done with regard to being able to assemble any wicket page or component
>>from different OSGi modules. You can use that as is right now, before we
>>call the RSP commands, actions etc from Wicket views. More details on
>>that over at OPS4J:http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:wicket
>
>
> Dan,
> I am working on moving the Wiki content over to a more permanently generated
> website at http://www.ops4j.org/projects/pax/wicket/
> Sorry if you find there to still be too many holes, in which case the Wiki
> page is better.
>
> That being said, let me try to elaborate on the RSP-UI approach vs what Pax
> Wicket is trying to accomplish.
>
> RSP-UI is all about leveraging 10 years of Java web development experience,
> and allow for these technologies to co-exist and collaborate. Each
> rendering technology becomes a "thick" component inside a view of the
> RSP-UI workbench (hope I am using the right terminology ;o/). The approach
> is fairly rigid, and therefor allows almost any technology to be
> integrated, and Wicket is not any different.
>
> Pax Wicket is what I hope will become (part of) RSP-UI v 2.0, where we can
> compose pages from components and large components by assembling smaller
> components, all in the beautiful runtime fashion we know as OSGi. Where the
> granularity is much finer, and allows for a greater level of re-use among
> similar server projects.
>
> We do that already in Pax Wicket. Put arbitrary components in bundles,
> assign their destinations in runtime, or move things from one place to
> another, reload components without bringing down the server, extend the
> application with new panels just by starting up new bundles.
> Wicket has the necessary hooks to support the OSGi platform, and with our
> help the Wicket team is ironing out the relatively small changes needed to
> support OSGi in this fashion. It is good to see that such a strong
> commitment from the Wicket team exist, and I am confident Wicket will
> become the choice for many, maybe most, aspiring web developers on OSGi.
>
> I can't speak for what RAP is doing, as I don't follow their progress.
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600786 is a reply to message #72632] Thu, 15 June 2006 20:10 Go to previous message
Dan Connelly is currently offline Dan Connelly
Messages: 66
Registered: July 2009
Member
In previous post I should have cited ECP as the source of business
components, not ECF. (Eclipse Component Platform, was Framework).

But I appear to be wrong there. ECP appears to be mainly another UI
component, Java Server Faces components in this case.

My final paragraph in that post, where I am looking for more info on
commonality or integration in the UI stacks, would be addressed by
further discussion of the RSP-UI scope item:

"UI Composition Framework" (Ecosystem diagram)

This appears to be a deliverable from Vetta Technologies. Is there any
early access download for code or javadoc on this framework?

-- Dan
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600806 is a reply to message #72721] Sun, 18 June 2006 07:11 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: giacomin.vettatech.com

Hi Dan,

Thank you for your interest on RSP-UI. There is a quick start doc for the
project saying how to get the code from SVN and how to put it running.
I'll manage to have this sent to you tomorrow (it is being reviewed right
now).

Regards,
Ricardo Giacomin.
Vetta Technologies.
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600837 is a reply to message #72721] Fri, 23 June 2006 09:05 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: renan.vettatech.com

Dan,
Please contact me at renancamponez@gmail.com , so I can send you the
document Ricardo has promissed.

Thanks,
Renan

"Dan Connelly" <dsconnelly@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:e6ssra$33d$1@utils.eclipse.org...
> In previous post I should have cited ECP as the source of business
> components, not ECF. (Eclipse Component Platform, was Framework).
>
> But I appear to be wrong there. ECP appears to be mainly another UI
> component, Java Server Faces components in this case.
>
> My final paragraph in that post, where I am looking for more info on
> commonality or integration in the UI stacks, would be addressed by further
> discussion of the RSP-UI scope item:
>
> "UI Composition Framework" (Ecosystem diagram)
>
> This appears to be a deliverable from Vetta Technologies. Is there any
> early access download for code or javadoc on this framework?
>
> -- Dan
>
>
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600840 is a reply to message #72847] Fri, 23 June 2006 12:53 Go to previous message
Wolfgang Gehner is currently offline Wolfgang Gehner
Messages: 26
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
... where xxxxxxxx stands for vettatech.com
Re: RAP+RSP+Wicket [message #600848 is a reply to message #72865] Fri, 23 June 2006 16:11 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: giacomin.vettatech.com

No, you should use renancamponez at gmail.com or renan at vettatech.com.

Ricardo.
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