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[TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488687] Tue, 29 September 2009 13:59 Go to next message
Waldi  is currently offline Waldi
Messages: 60
Registered: July 2009
Member
Dear EMF Group,

is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be realy
awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
was without success. Can you help me in this direction?

BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.

The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
there is no possibility to do this.

Thanks in advance

Waldi
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488696 is a reply to message #488687] Tue, 29 September 2009 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Schindl is currently offline Thomas Schindl
Messages: 5257
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
You should take a look at my EclipseCon presentation [1] where I use
CDO+Teneo because then you get a real 3-tier application.

The problem you are going to face if you are using other technologies is
the problem of lazy loading which is only automatically solved by CDO.

Tom

[1]http://live.eclipse.org/node/742

Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
> Dear EMF Group,
>
> is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
> environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
> project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
> who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
> The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be realy
> awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
> JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
> was without success. Can you help me in this direction?
>
> BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
> newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.
>
> The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
> there is no possibility to do this.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Waldi
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488721 is a reply to message #488696] Tue, 29 September 2009 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Waldi,
I can't really comment on the RCP-application server integration. I know that other people (Flavio Donze) have used
Rienna but I think that you have seen these posts. Regarding authorization/authentication that part is something you
need to develop yourselve... This together with other server side code. The nice thing of using EMF/Teneo in
Jboss/Tomcat is that you can easily write server-side code.

Btw, as Tom mentions the combination of CDO/Teneo is a really good solution to. I spend a lot of time in July to improve
the quality, these changes are all available in the CDO 3.0 stream (HEAD in cvs). I will probably spend some more time
on it a little later this month.

gr. Martin

Tom Schindl wrote:
> You should take a look at my EclipseCon presentation [1] where I use
> CDO+Teneo because then you get a real 3-tier application.
>
> The problem you are going to face if you are using other technologies is
> the problem of lazy loading which is only automatically solved by CDO.
>
> Tom
>
> [1]http://live.eclipse.org/node/742
>
> Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
>> Dear EMF Group,
>>
>> is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
>> environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
>> project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
>> who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
>> The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be realy
>> awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
>> JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
>> was without success. Can you help me in this direction?
>>
>> BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
>> newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.
>>
>> The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
>> there is no possibility to do this.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Waldi


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Cell: +31 (0)6 288 48 943
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488788 is a reply to message #488696] Wed, 30 September 2009 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Waldi  is currently offline Waldi
Messages: 60
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ok, I think a lot about this way, but what is with Authentication and
Authorization? I think this is my biggest problem. Do you remind you on
the open Bug https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=277075 ?

I always try with your example project, I think its realy great... One
question to it. You say use CDO+TENEO. Is it automatically used if you
set up a Database connection in the CDO Server? I cant see a bundle
called: *cdo.teneo in you GIT Repo. Is it possible to use Teneo behind CDO?

Tom Schindl schrieb:
> You should take a look at my EclipseCon presentation [1] where I use
> CDO+Teneo because then you get a real 3-tier application.
>
> The problem you are going to face if you are using other technologies is
> the problem of lazy loading which is only automatically solved by CDO.
>
> Tom
>
> [1]http://live.eclipse.org/node/742
>
> Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
>> Dear EMF Group,
>>
>> is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
>> environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
>> project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
>> who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
>> The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be realy
>> awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
>> JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
>> was without success. Can you help me in this direction?
>>
>> BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
>> newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.
>>
>> The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
>> there is no possibility to do this.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Waldi
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488789 is a reply to message #488721] Wed, 30 September 2009 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Waldi  is currently offline Waldi
Messages: 60
Registered: July 2009
Member
Sorry I don't refresh my Inbox and haven't read you message.

Martin Taal schrieb:
> Hi Waldi,
> I can't really comment on the RCP-application server integration. I know
> that other people (Flavio Donze) have used Rienna but I think that you
> have seen these posts.
Hmm I will search after it
Regarding authorization/authentication that part
> is something you need to develop yourselve... This together with other
> server side code. The nice thing of using EMF/Teneo in Jboss/Tomcat is
> that you can easily write server-side code.
Yes but my problem is to get run Teneo on the Server side. But you say
Flavio Donze.... I will look after it
> Btw, as Tom mentions the combination of CDO/Teneo is a really good
> solution to. I spend a lot of time in July to improve the quality, these
> changes are all available in the CDO 3.0 stream (HEAD in cvs). I will
> probably spend some more time on it a little later this month.
I'm curious about it.
>
> gr. Martin
>
> Tom Schindl wrote:
>> You should take a look at my EclipseCon presentation [1] where I use
>> CDO+Teneo because then you get a real 3-tier application.
>>
>> The problem you are going to face if you are using other technologies is
>> the problem of lazy loading which is only automatically solved by CDO.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> [1]http://live.eclipse.org/node/742
>>
>> Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
>>> Dear EMF Group,
>>>
>>> is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
>>> environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
>>> project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
>>> who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
>>> The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be realy
>>> awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
>>> JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
>>> was without success. Can you help me in this direction?
>>>
>>> BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
>>> newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.
>>>
>>> The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
>>> there is no possibility to do this.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Waldi
>
>
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488790 is a reply to message #488788] Wed, 30 September 2009 05:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Schindl is currently offline Thomas Schindl
Messages: 5257
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
> Ok, I think a lot about this way, but what is with Authentication and
> Authorization? I think this is my biggest problem. Do you remind you on
> the open Bug https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=277075 ?
>

Right there's work do be done ;-)

> I always try with your example project, I think its realy great... One
> question to it. You say use CDO+TENEO. Is it automatically used if you

No by default CDO uses it's own mapping strategy and you need to extra
configure using teneo.

> set up a Database connection in the CDO Server? I cant see a bundle
> called: *cdo.teneo in you GIT Repo. Is it possible to use Teneo behind CDO?
>

By the time wrote this demo I used the CDO DB-Storage technology but as
Martin responded he invested some time into the CDO store but this work
is only available in 3.0.

Tom
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488802 is a reply to message #488687] Wed, 30 September 2009 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Waldi  is currently offline Waldi
Messages: 60
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ok thanks a lot to Martin and Tom. I think it makes sense to wait a bit
on CDO 3.0 and on the letter from Martin ;-) I have to look at Toms
presentation and I try around with this informations... But all People
I've asked - Access control on Client side - No way... ;-)


Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
> Dear EMF Group,
>
> is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
> environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
> project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
> who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
> The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be realy
> awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
> JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
> was without success. Can you help me in this direction?
>
> BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
> newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.
>
> The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
> there is no possibility to do this.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Waldi
Re: [TENEO] 3 Tier architecture. Is it possible [message #488803 is a reply to message #488789] Wed, 30 September 2009 05:43 Go to previous message
Martin Taal is currently offline Martin Taal
Messages: 5326
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Waldi,
To clarify the different options in which Teneo can be used (maybe also interesting for others):

- rcp connects directly to teneo using the HibernateResource(Factory) etc. This is a fine architecture but you won't
have the features offered by CDO (see below).

- Teneo runs inside a web container like jboss or Tomcat. Then you can place different front-ends on top of this:
> a web browser,
> another server doing webservice calls
> a rcp

The first two are a good fit directly, especially webservice environments.For RCP you have to to do all the
rcp-webserver communication yourselve (the main disadvantage of this architecture). However, this is also doable it
seems as people have done this. The advantage of this architecture is that you have real EMF objects available on the
server so you can easily write server side code using the EMF/Teneo/Hibernate constructs.

- Teneo embedded in CDO (3.0): in this case the Teneo mapping layer operates inside of CDO. Many Teneo mapping
constructs/annotations are supported (but not all). CDO offers really nice RCP features (like lazy loading, but also
auto-memory management, broadcasting of changes between clients etc.). You can even do HQL queries in the RCP to build
your UI independent of EMF resource structures. So all in all a good architecture combining CDO's advanced features with
Teneo's mapping flexibility and Hibernate's multi-database support. One disadvantage/drawback of the CDO 3.0/Teneo
integration is that not all EMF features are yet supported, mainly the featuremap is not supported (this is a todo for
CDO/Teneo)*. Also CDO will add its own tables to the database (resource, folder, epackages etc.). And in addition
because CDO uses its own framework on the server it is more difficult to build server side logic (at least afaiu).

I am sure Eike and other CDO committers can add remarks on CDO features, but this is just a summary.

I hope this description is usefull/helpfull for you and also others.

Let me know if you have any other questions/remarks.

* note that CDO has multiple backends which have different features, like I think that the featuremap is now supported
by the default CDO DB backend.

gr. Martin



Waldi Waldemar wrote:
> Sorry I don't refresh my Inbox and haven't read you message.
>
> Martin Taal schrieb:
>> Hi Waldi,
>> I can't really comment on the RCP-application server integration. I
>> know that other people (Flavio Donze) have used Rienna but I think
>> that you have seen these posts.
> Hmm I will search after it
> Regarding authorization/authentication that part
>> is something you need to develop yourselve... This together with other
>> server side code. The nice thing of using EMF/Teneo in Jboss/Tomcat is
>> that you can easily write server-side code.
> Yes but my problem is to get run Teneo on the Server side. But you say
> Flavio Donze.... I will look after it
>> Btw, as Tom mentions the combination of CDO/Teneo is a really good
>> solution to. I spend a lot of time in July to improve the quality,
>> these changes are all available in the CDO 3.0 stream (HEAD in cvs). I
>> will probably spend some more time on it a little later this month.
> I'm curious about it.
>>
>> gr. Martin
>>
>> Tom Schindl wrote:
>>> You should take a look at my EclipseCon presentation [1] where I use
>>> CDO+Teneo because then you get a real 3-tier application.
>>>
>>> The problem you are going to face if you are using other technologies is
>>> the problem of lazy loading which is only automatically solved by CDO.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> [1]http://live.eclipse.org/node/742
>>>
>>> Waldi Waldemar schrieb:
>>>> Dear EMF Group,
>>>>
>>>> is it possible to use Teneo in a typical 3 tier architecture
>>>> environment? I spend a lot of time to play with the the Sample Library
>>>> project. Now I have a persistence Service (Teneo Persistence Service)
>>>> who is really awesome. In my rcp application all works automaticaly...
>>>> The data binding, save, delete change detection... Now it would be
>>>> realy
>>>> awesome if I can publish this Service from a application Server like
>>>> JBoss or Tomcat and access it from my rcp application. But all the try
>>>> was without success. Can you help me in this direction?
>>>>
>>>> BTW: I try out riena... without success. There is a post in the Riena
>>>> newsgroup from me about eclipse.ui dependency about my problem.
>>>>
>>>> The ground if I ask is: Authentication and Authorization... With Teneo
>>>> there is no possibility to do this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>>
>>>> Waldi
>>
>>


--

With Regards, Martin Taal

Springsite/Elver.org
Office: Hardwareweg 4, 3821 BV Amersfoort
Postal: Nassaulaan 7, 3941 EC Doorn
The Netherlands
Cell: +31 (0)6 288 48 943
Tel: +31 (0)84 420 2397
Fax: +31 (0)84 225 9307
Mail: mtaal@springsite.com - mtaal@elver.org
Web: www.springsite.com - www.elver.org
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