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recent development updates [message #21419] Mon, 06 October 2008 22:10 Go to next message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Team,

For those who do not follow all the activities in the Bugzilla bugs, I
want to summarize a few fixes and enhancements we have recently.

Babel Pseudo Translations Language Packs
========================================
We've implemented a new "Babel Pseudo Translation Language Packs" (see bug
217339). The Babel Pseudo Translations Language Packs can
help:

- identify hard-coded strings; a string is hard-coded if it does not have
the special prefix
- the added length to the strings can help identify layout problems; for
example, after adding "eclipse123456:" to "OK", a button label is truncated
- identify the component the string is coming from; is the string from
Eclipse Platform or from my component?
- locate the file containing the string; there are probably a dozen copies
of the strings "File" or "OK". If you want to locate a particular one to
fix the translation, you just have to look up the prefix number from an
index file.

Screen capture: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/attachment.cgi?id=113122

New Babel Update Site
=====================
- We reorganized the Babel Update Site to list language packs by language.
- In each language category, language packs for each project are listed.
- There is also a percentage of translation completeness in the
description.
- User may pick and choose the language packs to install.

Screen capture: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/attachment.cgi?id=114274

Babel Language Pack Links Page
==============================
- During the generation of language packs for the update site, we are
creating the downloadable language packs at the same time.

Screen capture: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/attachment.cgi?id=114275


These few fixes and enhancements have been released to CVS, but not
deployed to the staging/live servers yet. We will apply the fixes to the
staging server very soon. Please give us feedbacks.

Thanks,
Kit Lo
IBM Eclipse SDK Globalization Technical Lead
Eclipse Babel Project Co-lead
Re: recent development updates [message #21450 is a reply to message #21419] Mon, 13 October 2008 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marco  Lehmann-Mörz is currently offline Marco Lehmann-MörzFriend
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi guys,

what is the status of the new babel update site?
When will it go live?

TIA,
Marco
Re: recent development updates [message #21458 is a reply to message #21450] Tue, 14 October 2008 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The test update sites are available at:

http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede

We are waiting for the Eclipse legal team to give advice on a copyright
question. We will deploy the new update sites to the live server as soon
as the copyright question is resolved.
Re: recent development updates [message #21465 is a reply to message #21458] Tue, 14 October 2008 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Kit Lo schreef:
> The test update sites are available at:
>
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede

No repository found at
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
Error reading update site
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede.
Invalid byte 1 of 1-byte UTF-8 sequence.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
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Re: recent development updates [message #21470 is a reply to message #21465] Tue, 14 October 2008 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

Hendrik, please open a bug.

Thanks,

Antoine

Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> Kit Lo schreef:
>> The test update sites are available at:
>>
>> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa
>> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
>
> No repository found at
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
> Error reading update site
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede.
> Invalid byte 1 of 1-byte UTF-8 sequence.
>
> H.
Re: recent development updates [message #21518 is a reply to message #21470] Wed, 15 October 2008 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I just tried the update sites again without any problems.

Is it possible that it's a network problem?

Hendrik, were you using a fresh Eclipse or existing Eclipse to connect to
the update sites? Were you using Eclipse 3.4 SDK or 3.3 SDK?

Please try this is in a web browser to see if you can at least connect to
the update server:

http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa/site.xml
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede/site.xml
Re: recent development updates [message #21539 is a reply to message #21518] Wed, 15 October 2008 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Kit Lo schreef:
> I just tried the update sites again without any problems.
>
> Is it possible that it's a network problem?
>
> Hendrik, were you using a fresh Eclipse or existing Eclipse to connect
> to the update sites? Were you using Eclipse 3.4 SDK or 3.3 SDK?

Standard Ganymede, existing installation. I used to have a language
pack installed, but uninstalled it because it keeps on giving trouble
(other packages complain about missing dependencies when they try to
update, whereas there are none!)

> Please try this is in a web browser to see if you can at least connect
> to the update server:
>
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa/site.xml
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede/site.xml

No problem in Firefox.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
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Re: recent development updates [message #21583 is a reply to message #21518] Wed, 15 October 2008 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marco  Lehmann-Mörz is currently offline Marco Lehmann-MörzFriend
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009
Member
There are only three (two and pseudo?) translations available. Where are
the other languages?
Re: recent development updates [message #21627 is a reply to message #21470] Wed, 15 October 2008 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Antoine Toulme schreef:
> Hendrik, please open a bug.

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=250912

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #21760 is a reply to message #21583] Sun, 19 October 2008 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The links in previous posting were for the staging test update sites,
which do not have all the translations.

The latest language packs are now available at the live update sites:
http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/gan ymede
http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/eur opa
Re: recent development updates [message #21804 is a reply to message #21760] Mon, 20 October 2008 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Kit Lo schreef:
> The links in previous posting were for the staging test update sites,
> which do not have all the translations.
>
> The latest language packs are now available at the live update sites:
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/gan ymede
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/eur opa

I see several problems here:
- I was able to install the pseudo-language pack for Birt, although I do
not have Birt installed. I am afraid this will get us into the same
trouble as before, where software could not be updated because of
missing dependencies *of the language pack* which were really irrelevant.
- There are no language packs available in any real language yet. Do
you plan on only releasing those that are 100% complete? Noble though
that may be, it is also illusionary.
Would this mean I would have to get my incomplete Dutch language pack
from the testing site?

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
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Re: recent development updates [message #21847 is a reply to message #21804] Mon, 20 October 2008 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Hendrik Maryns schreef:
> Kit Lo schreef:
>> The links in previous posting were for the staging test update sites,
>> which do not have all the translations.
>>
>> The latest language packs are now available at the live update sites:
>> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/gan ymede
>> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/eur opa
>
> I see several problems here:
> - I was able to install the pseudo-language pack for Birt, although I do
> not have Birt installed. I am afraid this will get us into the same
> trouble as before, where software could not be updated because of
> missing dependencies *of the language pack* which were really irrelevant.

And indeed this is the case already: when I tried to uninstall the birt
language pack again, it complained about missing dependencies for
something to do with Datatools. And indeed the solution was to mark the
language pack for Datatools for uninstallation as well.

You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
can go to the wide public!

> H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #21893 is a reply to message #21847] Mon, 20 October 2008 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 506760
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
> can go to the wide public!

I'll bring up this subject on our call today. Feel free to join us if
you can:

http://www.eclipse.org/babel/development/calls/

If you know anyone who can help us with the dependency management, by
all means, please volunteer! We really need the help.

Denis


--

Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
Questions? Consult the WebMaster FAQ at
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Re: recent development updates [message #22027 is a reply to message #21893] Tue, 21 October 2008 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Denis Roy schreef:
> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
>> can go to the wide public!
>
> I'll bring up this subject on our call today. Feel free to join us if
> you can:
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/babel/development/calls/

I tried calling yesterday evening (if I am right, that is 19:00 in
Germany), but got no connection. Is there another number for
international calls? I can call for free as long as it is not a special
number or mobile.

> If you know anyone who can help us with the dependency management, by
> all means, please volunteer! We really need the help.

I am afraid I have enough projects running already. But this shouldn’t
be too difficult, should it? Simply make each language pack dependent
on its corresponding feature, such that they *cannot be installed* if
the feature is not there.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #22113 is a reply to message #22027] Tue, 21 October 2008 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 506760
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> Denis Roy schreef:
>> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>>> You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
>>> can go to the wide public!
>> I'll bring up this subject on our call today. Feel free to join us if
>> you can:
>>
>> http://www.eclipse.org/babel/development/calls/
>
> I tried calling yesterday evening (if I am right, that is 19:00 in
> Germany), but got no connection. Is there another number for
> international calls? I can call for free as long as it is not a special
> number or mobile.

There was an actual problem with the bridge we were using. It normally
works, sorry.


>> If you know anyone who can help us with the dependency management, by
>> all means, please volunteer! We really need the help.
>
> I am afraid I have enough projects running already. But this shouldn’t
> be too difficult, should it? Simply make each language pack dependent
> on its corresponding feature, such that they *cannot be installed* if
> the feature is not there.

Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
to determine any of that.

D.
Re: recent development updates [message #22157 is a reply to message #22113] Tue, 21 October 2008 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
> to determine any of that.

Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
not intimate with p2.

I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.

The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
developers of the particular project.
Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
there, add one too much there, etc.

Please see my last comment here:

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027

The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
the feature on the fly.

Thanks,

Antoine
Re: recent development updates [message #22200 is a reply to message #22157] Tue, 21 October 2008 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: 4cs6fcg02.sneakemail.com

Antoine Toulme schreef:
>> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
>> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
>> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
>> to determine any of that.
>
> Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
> not intimate with p2.

But I’m not, I am afraid, so I’ll restrict my contribution to commenting
here (and to translate.php of course).

> I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.
>
> The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
> developers of the particular project.
> Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
> there, add one too much there, etc.
>
> Please see my last comment here:
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027
>
> The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
> fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
> the feature on the fly.

Maybe we have to rethink this whole issue. Let’s say there is a
preference that holds what a user’s preferred UI language is. Then any
time that user tries to install a feature, p2 would ask something like
‘Do you want to install the corresponding [Your language] language pack
also?’.

I.e. reverse the dependencies. But at the same time it totally makes
sense to have the language packs depend on the stuff they translate.
But OTOH it might be safest to just give them no dependencies at all,
maybe that would solve the problems I have been complaining about.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #22244 is a reply to message #22157] Wed, 22 October 2008 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 506760
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Sorry, Antoine. When I said that no one on the babel team was an
experienced plugin developer, I was only thinking of myself :(

Now I'm even happier that you're on the team!

Denis



Antoine Toulme wrote:
>> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
>> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
>> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
>> to determine any of that.
>
> Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
> not intimate with p2.
>
> I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.
>
> The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
> developers of the particular project.
> Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
> there, add one too much there, etc.
>
> Please see my last comment here:
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027
>
> The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
> fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
> the feature on the fly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Antoine

--

Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
Questions? Consult the WebMaster FAQ at
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Re: recent development updates [message #22283 is a reply to message #22157] Thu, 23 October 2008 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marco  Lehmann-Mörz is currently offline Marco Lehmann-MörzFriend
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Antoine,

your script sounds like the solution we need too, but for a list of
languages.
Can you share your script?!

TIA,
Marco


Antoine Toulme schrieb:
>> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
>> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
>> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
>> to determine any of that.
>
> Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
> not intimate with p2.
>
> I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.
>
> The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
> developers of the particular project.
> Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
> there, add one too much there, etc.
>
> Please see my last comment here:
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027
>
> The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
> fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
> the feature on the fly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Antoine
Re: recent development updates [message #22718 is a reply to message #22244] Sat, 08 November 2008 14:50 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner KeilFriend
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Denis Roy wrote:
> Sorry, Antoine. When I said that no one on the babel team was an
> experienced plugin developer, I was only thinking of myself :(
>
> Now I'm even happier that you're on the team!
>
> Denis
>
>

I'm glad you corrected this statement !

While I may barely have time to contribute to actual code at Babel, I
already contributed to the first ever Eclipse plugin listed in Eclipse
Plugin Central (at least an older catalog had it as Plugin Id:1) Sysdeo
Tomcat Plugin (formerly known as Tomcat Launcher) from its 0.7 release.

I also wrote Eclipse RCP front ends for specialized CMS solutions used
by many companies on the stock market to create their annual reports
(please don't blame me for the CONTENT of those, I only wrote the Client
Plugins ;-)

And last but not least, our fellow Babel member Pascal certainly knows
about plugin development since he was behind most of the Message or
ResourceBundle Editor in Babel and previously Source Forge.

Some of us may be under enormous time pressure nowadays, so if your
statement was meant to attract FURTHER good plugin developers out there,
please GO ON !!!

Werner
Re: recent development updates [message #574614 is a reply to message #21419] Mon, 13 October 2008 12:52 Go to previous message
Marco  Lehmann-Mörz is currently offline Marco Lehmann-MörzFriend
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi guys,

what is the status of the new babel update site?
When will it go live?

TIA,
Marco
Re: recent development updates [message #574631 is a reply to message #21450] Tue, 14 October 2008 12:45 Go to previous message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The test update sites are available at:

http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede

We are waiting for the Eclipse legal team to give advice on a copyright
question. We will deploy the new update sites to the live server as soon
as the copyright question is resolved.
Re: recent development updates [message #574675 is a reply to message #21458] Tue, 14 October 2008 14:27 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Kit Lo schreef:
> The test update sites are available at:
>
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede

No repository found at
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
Error reading update site
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
Invalid byte 1 of 1-byte UTF-8 sequence.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #574711 is a reply to message #21465] Tue, 14 October 2008 21:55 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

Hendrik, please open a bug.

Thanks,

Antoine

Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> Kit Lo schreef:
>> The test update sites are available at:
>>
>> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa
>> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
>
> No repository found at
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
> Error reading update site
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede
> Invalid byte 1 of 1-byte UTF-8 sequence.
>
> H.
Re: recent development updates [message #574723 is a reply to message #21470] Wed, 15 October 2008 02:19 Go to previous message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I just tried the update sites again without any problems.

Is it possible that it's a network problem?

Hendrik, were you using a fresh Eclipse or existing Eclipse to connect to
the update sites? Were you using Eclipse 3.4 SDK or 3.3 SDK?

Please try this is in a web browser to see if you can at least connect to
the update server:

http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa/site.xml
http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede/site.xml
Re: recent development updates [message #574775 is a reply to message #21518] Wed, 15 October 2008 08:44 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Kit Lo schreef:
> I just tried the update sites again without any problems.
>
> Is it possible that it's a network problem?
>
> Hendrik, were you using a fresh Eclipse or existing Eclipse to connect
> to the update sites? Were you using Eclipse 3.4 SDK or 3.3 SDK?

Standard Ganymede, existing installation. I used to have a language
pack installed, but uninstalled it because it keeps on giving trouble
(other packages complain about missing dependencies when they try to
update, whereas there are none!)

> Please try this is in a web browser to see if you can at least connect
> to the update server:
>
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/eu ropa/site.xml
> http://build.eclipse.org/technology/babel/staging-updates/ga nymede/site.xml

No problem in Firefox.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #574800 is a reply to message #21518] Wed, 15 October 2008 09:02 Go to previous message
Marco  Lehmann-Mörz is currently offline Marco Lehmann-MörzFriend
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009
Member
There are only three (two and pseudo?) translations available. Where are
the other languages?
Re: recent development updates [message #574871 is a reply to message #21470] Wed, 15 October 2008 09:41 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Antoine Toulme schreef:
> Hendrik, please open a bug.

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=250912

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #574946 is a reply to message #21583] Sun, 19 October 2008 23:52 Go to previous message
Kit Lo is currently offline Kit LoFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The links in previous posting were for the staging test update sites,
which do not have all the translations.

The latest language packs are now available at the live update sites:
http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/gan ymede
http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/eur opa
Re: recent development updates [message #574981 is a reply to message #21760] Mon, 20 October 2008 11:13 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Kit Lo schreef:
> The links in previous posting were for the staging test update sites,
> which do not have all the translations.
>
> The latest language packs are now available at the live update sites:
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/gan ymede
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/eur opa

I see several problems here:
- I was able to install the pseudo-language pack for Birt, although I do
not have Birt installed. I am afraid this will get us into the same
trouble as before, where software could not be updated because of
missing dependencies *of the language pack* which were really irrelevant.
- There are no language packs available in any real language yet. Do
you plan on only releasing those that are 100% complete? Noble though
that may be, it is also illusionary.
Would this mean I would have to get my incomplete Dutch language pack
from the testing site?

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
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Re: recent development updates [message #575009 is a reply to message #21804] Mon, 20 October 2008 11:38 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hendrik Maryns schreef:
> Kit Lo schreef:
>> The links in previous posting were for the staging test update sites,
>> which do not have all the translations.
>>
>> The latest language packs are now available at the live update sites:
>> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/gan ymede
>> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/babel/update-site/eur opa
>
> I see several problems here:
> - I was able to install the pseudo-language pack for Birt, although I do
> not have Birt installed. I am afraid this will get us into the same
> trouble as before, where software could not be updated because of
> missing dependencies *of the language pack* which were really irrelevant.

And indeed this is the case already: when I tried to uninstall the birt
language pack again, it complained about missing dependencies for
something to do with Datatools. And indeed the solution was to mark the
language pack for Datatools for uninstallation as well.

You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
can go to the wide public!

> H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
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Re: recent development updates [message #575037 is a reply to message #21847] Mon, 20 October 2008 14:08 Go to previous message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 506760
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
> can go to the wide public!

I'll bring up this subject on our call today. Feel free to join us if
you can:

http://www.eclipse.org/babel/development/calls/

If you know anyone who can help us with the dependency management, by
all means, please volunteer! We really need the help.

Denis


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Re: recent development updates [message #575098 is a reply to message #21893] Tue, 21 October 2008 11:07 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Denis Roy schreef:
> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
>> can go to the wide public!
>
> I'll bring up this subject on our call today. Feel free to join us if
> you can:
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/babel/development/calls/

I tried calling yesterday evening (if I am right, that is 19:00 in
Germany), but got no connection. Is there another number for
international calls? I can call for free as long as it is not a special
number or mobile.

> If you know anyone who can help us with the dependency management, by
> all means, please volunteer! We really need the help.

I am afraid I have enough projects running already. But this shouldn’t
be too difficult, should it? Simply make each language pack dependent
on its corresponding feature, such that they *cannot be installed* if
the feature is not there.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #575140 is a reply to message #22027] Tue, 21 October 2008 14:19 Go to previous message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 506760
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> Denis Roy schreef:
>> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>>> You really need to come up with proper dependency management before this
>>> can go to the wide public!
>> I'll bring up this subject on our call today. Feel free to join us if
>> you can:
>>
>> http://www.eclipse.org/babel/development/calls/
>
> I tried calling yesterday evening (if I am right, that is 19:00 in
> Germany), but got no connection. Is there another number for
> international calls? I can call for free as long as it is not a special
> number or mobile.

There was an actual problem with the bridge we were using. It normally
works, sorry.


>> If you know anyone who can help us with the dependency management, by
>> all means, please volunteer! We really need the help.
>
> I am afraid I have enough projects running already. But this shouldn’t
> be too difficult, should it? Simply make each language pack dependent
> on its corresponding feature, such that they *cannot be installed* if
> the feature is not there.

Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
to determine any of that.

D.
Re: recent development updates [message #575187 is a reply to message #22113] Tue, 21 October 2008 14:51 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com

> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
> to determine any of that.

Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
not intimate with p2.

I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.

The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
developers of the particular project.
Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
there, add one too much there, etc.

Please see my last comment here:

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027

The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
the feature on the fly.

Thanks,

Antoine
Re: recent development updates [message #575229 is a reply to message #22157] Tue, 21 October 2008 15:26 Go to previous message
Hendrik Maryns is currently offline Hendrik MarynsFriend
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Antoine Toulme schreef:
>> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
>> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
>> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
>> to determine any of that.
>
> Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
> not intimate with p2.

But I’m not, I am afraid, so I’ll restrict my contribution to commenting
here (and to translate.php of course).

> I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.
>
> The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
> developers of the particular project.
> Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
> there, add one too much there, etc.
>
> Please see my last comment here:
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027
>
> The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
> fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
> the feature on the fly.

Maybe we have to rethink this whole issue. Let’s say there is a
preference that holds what a user’s preferred UI language is. Then any
time that user tries to install a feature, p2 would ask something like
‘Do you want to install the corresponding [Your language] language pack
also?’.

I.e. reverse the dependencies. But at the same time it totally makes
sense to have the language packs depend on the stuff they translate.
But OTOH it might be safest to just give them no dependencies at all,
maybe that would solve the problems I have been complaining about.

H.
--
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: recent development updates [message #575251 is a reply to message #22157] Wed, 22 October 2008 13:34 Go to previous message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 506760
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Sorry, Antoine. When I said that no one on the babel team was an
experienced plugin developer, I was only thinking of myself :(

Now I'm even happier that you're on the team!

Denis



Antoine Toulme wrote:
>> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
>> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
>> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
>> to determine any of that.
>
> Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
> not intimate with p2.
>
> I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.
>
> The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
> developers of the particular project.
> Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
> there, add one too much there, etc.
>
> Please see my last comment here:
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027
>
> The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
> fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
> the feature on the fly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Antoine

--

Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
Questions? Consult the WebMaster FAQ at
http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Webmaster_FAQ
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Re: recent development updates [message #575269 is a reply to message #22157] Thu, 23 October 2008 16:07 Go to previous message
Marco  Lehmann-Mörz is currently offline Marco Lehmann-MörzFriend
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Antoine,

your script sounds like the solution we need too, but for a list of
languages.
Can you share your script?!

TIA,
Marco


Antoine Toulme schrieb:
>> Not too difficult for someone who knows how it all works. No one on the
>> Babel team is an experienced plugin developer, nor are we intimately
>> familiar with p2 and features/plugins, so I personally wouldn't know how
>> to determine any of that.
>
> Hey Denis, I am an experienced plugin developer (2+ years). However I am
> not intimate with p2.
>
> I don't think this is something particularly easy to fix.
>
> The only people who know what goes into a feature are the plugin
> developers of the particular project.
> Even if we do a very good job at this, we will still miss a plugin
> there, add one too much there, etc.
>
> Please see my last comment here:
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248027
>
> The solution I foresee is to have a tool that downloads all the
> fragments according to the plugins on the Eclipse instance, and creates
> the feature on the fly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Antoine
Re: recent development updates [message #575556 is a reply to message #22244] Sat, 08 November 2008 14:50 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner KeilFriend
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Denis Roy wrote:
> Sorry, Antoine. When I said that no one on the babel team was an
> experienced plugin developer, I was only thinking of myself :(
>
> Now I'm even happier that you're on the team!
>
> Denis
>
>

I'm glad you corrected this statement !

While I may barely have time to contribute to actual code at Babel, I
already contributed to the first ever Eclipse plugin listed in Eclipse
Plugin Central (at least an older catalog had it as Plugin Id:1) Sysdeo
Tomcat Plugin (formerly known as Tomcat Launcher) from its 0.7 release.

I also wrote Eclipse RCP front ends for specialized CMS solutions used
by many companies on the stock market to create their annual reports
(please don't blame me for the CONTENT of those, I only wrote the Client
Plugins ;-)

And last but not least, our fellow Babel member Pascal certainly knows
about plugin development since he was behind most of the Message or
ResourceBundle Editor in Babel and previously Source Forge.

Some of us may be under enormous time pressure nowadays, so if your
statement was meant to attract FURTHER good plugin developers out there,
please GO ON !!!

Werner
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