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Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1123379] Wed, 02 October 2013 13:57 Go to next message
Glyn Normington is currently offline Glyn NormingtonFriend
Messages: 1222
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Well, archived actually, if no new project lead is found by the end of October 2013. But it will then be very hard, if not impossible, to build new releases as the infrastructure (such as the file storage of the build machine) isn't mirrored outside eclipse.org, only the code repositories (on github).

If you care about this and feel you might have the skills to step forward as a new project lead (with my help in the background to get you up to speed, of course), please join in the discussion on virgo-dev.
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1123647 is a reply to message #1123379] Wed, 02 October 2013 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daniel marthaler is currently offline daniel marthalerFriend
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2012
Location: Zürich
Junior Member
Hi Glyn,

I would like to thank you for your great efforts in the Virgo Project. To be honest i was shocked reading your tweet today that Virgo Project will be archived due to missing Project-Lead. Unfortunately i haven't been around in the forum since some time, so this fact is new to me.

As my daily work depends on Virgo it is in my interest that this project will be continued. Unfortunately it seems that the "community" is not really actively supporting Virgo, i would have expected a lot of messages here in the forum yelling to keep the project alive.

You wrote in one of your messages in the virgo-dev mailing list that the lead consumes about a half a day per week, but what about the current committers? Will they be willing to keep contributing to Virgo if a new (and assuming inexperienced Project Leader) would step up to take this position? It would make the job of the new Project Leader much more difficult if the committers would resign as well!

What about the Gemini-Projects? Will Blueprint be continued? Would be interesting to know as Virgo depends upon these Projects.

Hope my post isn't too late already and i really would like to have your reply.

Kind regards,
Dani

Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1123695 is a reply to message #1123647] Wed, 02 October 2013 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eduardo Frazão is currently offline Eduardo FrazãoFriend
Messages: 118
Registered: January 2012
Senior Member
Hi Daniel!
I see in Gemini forums, that Gemini Blueprint was with no leader too:

http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/t/497813/

As you can see, Dmitry Sklyut expressed that he can take leadership, but i don't know what happens after. I think that its all right.

Other Gemini Projects have leads and committers. (As I have researched Smile ).


I'm very concerned. I have some products that is builded on top of Virgo, and I can't imagine other OSGi Runtime to use insted (and I dont want to use another anyway).
I created a topic here in forum, to see what other users have to say, but only few people joined the conversation Sad.

And man, thanks to have interest of keep virgo alive Smile. As a simple virgo user, this situation become's a nightmare to me...

[Updated on: Wed, 02 October 2013 20:55]

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Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1123737 is a reply to message #1123695] Wed, 02 October 2013 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daniel marthaler is currently offline daniel marthalerFriend
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2012
Location: Zürich
Junior Member
Hi Eduardo

Looks as if Blueprint has still no Project Lead, see here.

Anyway, thanks for your reply. I have looked into your topic just before I posted my message you replied on.

My situation is very similar to yours, so at least were now two persons from the user community who care about that the Virgo Project will be kept alive.

I really would like to get into a dialog with Glyn to figure out how the situation for an inexperienced Project Leader would look like, or if this is anyway no question at all to have somebody from the user community to help with this. And most importantly, if the committers will stay, as I already mentioned in my previous post.

I know that the deadline is close but I think with some help we have a chance to find a solution.

Kind regards,
Dani

Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124139 is a reply to message #1123737] Thu, 03 October 2013 08:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Florian Waibel is currently offline Florian WaibelFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: June 2010
Senior Member
I take this opportunity to renew my previous[1] statement here:

"With my current Virgo time budget I feel uncomfortable stepping up to project leadership. It might be sufficient to act as a caretaker, but that would not be my preferred way contributing to the project. I think that we need some more involvement from Virgo adopters to ensure an ongoing success of the project."

If the Virgo project is archived the EclipseSource commercial support for Virgo "fall off the cliff". We wouldn't dare to offer support without the build infrastructure in place.

I personally do not want Virgo to be archived/deleted. I thought a lot about Virgo and it's future the last days and came independent from the latest shout outs to the conclusion that I will step forward unless someone more qualified will come along.

Regards,
florian

[1] http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/virgo-dev/msg01476.html
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124153 is a reply to message #1124139] Thu, 03 October 2013 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Glyn Normington is currently offline Glyn NormingtonFriend
Messages: 1222
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Dani

The plan is for Dmitry Sklyut to take over the project leadership of Gemini Blueprint. He has been voted as a committer so far. Then each of Virgo's Gemini dependencies will have a (non-dormant) project lead.

As for Virgo committers continuing to contribute - this is really a question to pose on virgo-dev. I won't ask the question because I don't want to get an over-optimistic reply due to any lingering allegiance to my leadership.

I personally won't be able to spend any time coding on Virgo, but I am happy to be consulted on project lead issues until the new project lead gets established and, of course, on the code I wrote (modulo the limits my memory which will inevitably fade over time).

Regards,
Glyn
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124155 is a reply to message #1124153] Thu, 03 October 2013 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Glyn Normington is currently offline Glyn NormingtonFriend
Messages: 1222
Registered: July 2009
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Hi Florian

I'm delighted you are willing to volunteer to be project lead unless someone better qualified steps forward. I've enjoyed working with you on the kernel in the past and given you can master some of the deeper aspects of the kernel, you're in a good position to dive in as needed anywhere in the project. But the project lead role doesn't demand deep knowledge of the whole codebase - it's more of a steering/guiding function.

Regards,
Glyn
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124160 is a reply to message #1124155] Thu, 03 October 2013 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Violeta Georgieva is currently offline Violeta GeorgievaFriend
Messages: 244
Registered: October 2010
Senior Member
Hi,

I can continue to be an active Virgo committer and take care for Gemini Web and Apache Tomcat upgrades/questions/issues.

Unfortunately I cannot take more responsibilities as I'm already project lead for Gemini Web and Gemini Naming and recently became a release manager for Apache Tomcat version 7 and all of this I'm doing in my personal free time.

Regards
Violeta
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124165 is a reply to message #1124139] Thu, 03 October 2013 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daniel marthaler is currently offline daniel marthalerFriend
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2012
Location: Zürich
Junior Member
Hi Florian

Thanks for your reply.
As far as I can see, your certainly more qualified with your knowledge to take the lead instead of someone who's "only" using Virgo in projects (adopters).

As for me, I'm willing to start contributing to the Virgo Project in any helpful way. Please let me know if and how this would be possible.

It is really important that Virgo will not be archived/deleted!

Regards,
Dani
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124176 is a reply to message #1124153] Thu, 03 October 2013 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daniel marthaler is currently offline daniel marthalerFriend
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2012
Location: Zürich
Junior Member
Hi Glyn

That is good news with Virgo's Gemini dependencies.

As I mentioned I will organize some of my spare time to start actively contributing to the Virgo Project, in any helpful way.

I subscribed yesterday to the dev mailing list. Should i drop a message there asking current committers if they will still contribute?

And thank you Violeta for your reply here.

Regards
Dani
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124181 is a reply to message #1124176] Thu, 03 October 2013 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Glyn Normington is currently offline Glyn NormingtonFriend
Messages: 1222
Registered: July 2009
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daniel marthaler wrote on Thu, 03 October 2013 10:03

As I mentioned I will organize some of my spare time to start actively contributing to the Virgo Project, in any helpful way.

Great!

Quote:

I subscribed yesterday to the dev mailing list. Should i drop a message there asking current committers if they will still contribute?

Yes.
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124187 is a reply to message #1124165] Thu, 03 October 2013 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Florian Waibel is currently offline Florian WaibelFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: June 2010
Senior Member
daniel marthaler wrote on Thu, 03 October 2013 04:48
As for me, I'm willing to start contributing to the Virgo Project in any helpful way. Please let me know if and how this would be possible.


A good ghost whispered to me:

"One suggestion for how Dani could help is by monitoring the Virgo forum and ensuring that unanswered threads are notified to a relevant committer in case they are able to shed some light. Just a suggestion though..."

What do you think Dani?
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124195 is a reply to message #1124187] Thu, 03 October 2013 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daniel marthaler is currently offline daniel marthalerFriend
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2012
Location: Zürich
Junior Member
Well, if I would know who to contact for certain open question, I will do that if this is considered helpful at this moment.

I just like to help.

Regards,
Dani
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124200 is a reply to message #1124195] Thu, 03 October 2013 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Glyn Normington is currently offline Glyn NormingtonFriend
Messages: 1222
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Dani

You can always ask on virgo-dev if you are unsure who the experts are in a given area. You'll soon build up a good intuition about who knows what. You will also soon be able to answer some of the forum threads yourself by reference to the FAQ or by the information you will inevitably acquire doing this.

Sometimes all that is required to get a committer to respond is for them to be personally asked. They are generally very helpful and simply don't have time to keep track of the forum.

Of course, remember that the main point of the community forum is for users to help themselves, so you need to be very selective about which threads to involve committers in. Basically, go for well-researched questions (*) or those whose answers are likely to help others.

Regards,
Glyn

* - please read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest my favourite FAQ
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124232 is a reply to message #1124200] Thu, 03 October 2013 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
daniel marthaler is currently offline daniel marthalerFriend
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2012
Location: Zürich
Junior Member
Thank you Glyn for the guiding.
I will start being more active here in the forum and try to solve open questions.

Florian, when I can be of any assistance in another area, please let me know. I just hope that you will take the lead so Virgo will be kept alive.

Regards,
Dani


Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124251 is a reply to message #1124232] Thu, 03 October 2013 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Manser is currently offline Peter ManserFriend
Messages: 1
Registered: October 2012
Junior Member
Hi everybody

I work together with Daniel and would also like to support the project more actively.

I will start by subscribing to the virgo-dev mailinglist as well and visit the forum more frequently.

If there are other tasks I could help with, let me know.

Regards
Peter
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124272 is a reply to message #1123379] Thu, 03 October 2013 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Schöpf is currently offline Felix SchöpfFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: February 2013
Junior Member
Hi Florian,

it's great to see that there is "something" going on in the Virgo community and I would love to see you step forward as project lead. Unfortunately, I am just a simple Virgo user and don't know if I can find any time to contribute to the Virgo project - but we will see.

But it would be absolutely gorgeous, if the project wouldn't be archived.

Best regards,
Felix
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124334 is a reply to message #1124272] Thu, 03 October 2013 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Watson is currently offline Thomas WatsonFriend
Messages: 437
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I am glad we are getting confirmation on the interest in Virgo again! I really did not want to see the project get archived. I think there is still plenty of time to get a lead established before the end of the month. Thanks to all here that are willing to contribute.

Tom.
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124535 is a reply to message #1123379] Thu, 03 October 2013 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Miles Parker is currently offline Miles ParkerFriend
Messages: 1340
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Wonderful news, everyone. Thanks for stepping up Florian!!
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1124630 is a reply to message #1124535] Thu, 03 October 2013 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eduardo Frazão is currently offline Eduardo FrazãoFriend
Messages: 118
Registered: January 2012
Senior Member
Really good news!! Thanks Florian!
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1131466 is a reply to message #1124630] Thu, 10 October 2013 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eduardo Frazão is currently offline Eduardo FrazãoFriend
Messages: 118
Registered: January 2012
Senior Member
Hi folks! How is the progress of new leadership transfer (burocratical, etc)?
I don't see any news on the virgo-dev?

Thanks!
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1132592 is a reply to message #1131466] Fri, 11 October 2013 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Florian Waibel is currently offline Florian WaibelFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: June 2010
Senior Member
Hi Eduardo,

don't worry! I'm sure Glyn will take all required formal steps well before closing date.

Regards,
florian
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1137227 is a reply to message #1132592] Mon, 14 October 2013 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Violeta Georgieva is currently offline Violeta GeorgievaFriend
Messages: 244
Registered: October 2010
Senior Member
Hi,

Here [1] is the mail thread for the Virgo project lead.

Regards
Violeta

[1] http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/virgo-dev/msg01494.html
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1137907 is a reply to message #1137227] Mon, 14 October 2013 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eduardo Frazão is currently offline Eduardo FrazãoFriend
Messages: 118
Registered: January 2012
Senior Member
Thanks for reply folks! I'm following the messages on virgo-dev Smile.. Very happy Smile
Thanks again Florian Waibel!
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1239952 is a reply to message #1137907] Wed, 05 February 2014 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hesham Saleh is currently offline Hesham SalehFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: March 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Junior Member
Hello all,

I am very glad that Florian Waibel stepped up as the project lead, it would have been a sad ending for such promising project otherwise, not to mention that we also have a sophisticated product on top of it and we were very concerned. I would like to thank Glyn Normington for all his enormous efforts and for the continuous guidance he will give until the leadership gets established.

Thanks again everyone for keeping this project alive.
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1239965 is a reply to message #1239952] Wed, 05 February 2014 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Glyn Normington is currently offline Glyn NormingtonFriend
Messages: 1222
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Thanks Hesham. Can you say a bit more, preferably quite a bit more, about your usage of Virgo?
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1240049 is a reply to message #1239965] Wed, 05 February 2014 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hesham Saleh is currently offline Hesham SalehFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: March 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Junior Member
Hello Glyn,

We are developing quite a complex enterprise web application, where OSGi's modularity combined with the dynamic services nature seems like the proper way to handle it's demanding architecture.

The main motivation for adopting Eclipse Virgo was the polished OSGi support, Spring integration, Web integration, and the perfect balance of simplicity in overall of this package compared to other more complex ones which don't consider the OSGi model as their "main identity", an advantage in Virgo that made it possible for top applications to benefit from the OSGi model in their own implementation.

We don't really have anything special beyond that as adopters when it comes to Virgo, the complexity comes in different application-specific requirements that we have built on top of Virgo using the OSGi model.

The standard OSGi model of course makes it less difficult somehow to move to another runtime, but realistically there doesn't seem to be another OSGi runtime in the horizon that just have the right mix.
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1313605 is a reply to message #1240049] Fri, 25 April 2014 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matteo Cantarelli is currently offline Matteo CantarelliFriend
Messages: 15
Registered: June 2012
Junior Member
Thanks Florian for stepping up.
Virgo is very important for us, we are using as webserver to run Geppetto (http://geppetto.org http://openworm.org), an OSGi based simulation engine for biology and I don't even want to think about finding an alternative, thanks very much for keeping the project alive and to all the committers who are volunteering their time.
Matteo
Re: Virgo project about to be deleted! [message #1320504 is a reply to message #1313605] Mon, 28 April 2014 20:56 Go to previous message
Florian Waibel is currently offline Florian WaibelFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: June 2010
Senior Member
Thanks Matteo,

an OSGi based simulation engine. Sounds interesting...

Regards,
florian
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