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Home » Archived » Visual Editor (VE) » How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi
How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141111] Wed, 26 September 2007 09:29 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: caye5200.yahoo.com.cn

Hello

VE hava VE Model: XMI View.xmi,
now ,have a problem ,VE how to read the xmi ?
i want get message to store from this xmi file.

i needs your help.


zxc
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141354 is a reply to message #141111] Sat, 29 September 2007 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"zxc" <caye5200@yahoo.com.cn> wrote in message
news:fddokj$cr7$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hello
> VE hava VE Model: XMI View.xmi,
> now ,have a problem ,VE how to read the xmi ?
> i want get message to store from this xmi file.
zxc:
Which Xmi model are you referring to?
Emf is used for xmi serialization.
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141508 is a reply to message #141111] Wed, 03 October 2007 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dominique is currently offline dominique
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
There are several models used by ve.
You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects "org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".

The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...

If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be able to read those files.

When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without rational rose software.

regards,
Dominique
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141528 is a reply to message #141508] Wed, 03 October 2007 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

It is Open source! The problem was that at the time these projects were
being created there was no other UML graphical modeling available that
could be imported into EMF format. At the time Rose was all that was
available.

You can still the model in tree form through the EMF Ecore editors on
the .gemmodel files.



dominique wrote:
> There are several models used by ve.
> You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects "org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
>
> The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
>
> If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be able to read those files.
>
> When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
> Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without rational rose software.
>
> regards,
> Dominique

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141538 is a reply to message #141528] Wed, 03 October 2007 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

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Rich,

Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
still using Rose. We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
now. What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g.,

http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html

This way we can have diagrams that edit Ecore directly and then we can
throw our crusty old Rose models away. Woo hoo!


Rich Kulp wrote:
> It is Open source! The problem was that at the time these projects
> were being created there was no other UML graphical modeling available
> that could be imported into EMF format. At the time Rose was all that
> was available.
>
> You can still the model in tree form through the EMF Ecore editors on
> the .gemmodel files.
>
>
>
> dominique wrote:
>> There are several models used by ve.
>> You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects
>> "org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
>>
>> The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
>>
>> If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not
>> be able to read those files.
>>
>> When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse
>> projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of
>> Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
>> Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without
>> rational rose software.
>>
>> regards,
>> Dominique
>


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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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Rich,<br>
<br>
Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
still using Rose.&nbsp; We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
now.&nbsp; What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g., <br>
<blockquote><a
href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html">http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
This way we can have diagrams that edit Ecore directly and then we can
throw our crusty old Rose models away.&nbsp; Woo hoo!<br>
<br>
<br>
Rich Kulp wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:fe091c$qj$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">It is
Open source! The problem was that at the time these projects were being
created there was no other UML graphical modeling available that could
be imported into EMF format. At the time Rose was all that was
available.
<br>
<br>
You can still the model in tree form through the EMF Ecore editors on
the .gemmodel files.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
dominique wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">There are several models used by ve.
<br>
You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects
"org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
<br>
<br>
The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
<br>
<br>
If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be
able to read those files.
<br>
<br>
When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse
projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of
Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
<br>
Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without
rational rose software.
<br>
<br>
regards,
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dominique
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

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Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141549 is a reply to message #141538] Wed, 03 October 2007 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

Hi Ed,

That would be great. I tried the sample GMF one but the problem was it
was too literal in matching the ECore model. It was simply a one-for-one
match to the internal layout of an Ecore file with the nicety of making
it graphical instead. For example if I wanted to add a description to a
property in Rose and in IBM RSA I would simply set the description in
the property sheet. But with the sample GMF I had to create a MetaData
annotation and know the correct id to set on it and the correct setting
to use for the description. It didn't hide all of the internal gorp of
Ecore files and present it in a straight forward manner.

Ed Merks wrote:
> Rich,
>
> Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
> still using Rose. We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
> good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
> now. What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
> that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g.,
>
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html
>

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141560 is a reply to message #141528] Thu, 04 October 2007 03:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dominique is currently offline dominique
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
For me, a project is an Open Source project if the following is true :
1- The community can access to all the source files used to build the software.
2- The community can read and make changes on the source files.

In the case of Eclipse projects based on Rose models files, the first point is OK, but the second is not.
I can get the Rose models files but I cannot view the contents of the files, I cannot change them ...

Imagine that I create a new compiler, for instance C--, and I make a software with this new compiler. I provide the source files of my software to the community (written in C--), and you need to buy my new compiler C-- to make any change in the sofware. Do you think it is an open source project ?

About the EMF Ecore editors, do you really use it to make changes in the models of a project ? You can make a small change with it, but you cannot have a clear view of the project.

About the ".genmodel" and "rose" model files, what is the source files ? If it is ".genmodel", you should remove all the "rose" model from the project, because the "rose" model files will be out of synchronisation when some update will be done on the .genmodel.

For me the situation is not good, and the community cannot work on VE project for this reason.

Regards, Dom
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141570 is a reply to message #141560] Thu, 04 October 2007 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

Dom,

Comments below.


dominique wrote:
> For me, a project is an Open Source project if the following is true :
> 1- The community can access to all the source files used to build the software.
> 2- The community can read and make changes on the source files.
>
I think all these are true. Though pointing out that you can edit .cat
or .mdl file is hardly a helpful suggestion. The fact that our project
was bootstrapped from these and that the community took a long time to
provide open source equivalents of sufficient quality to replace them is
our only poor excuse.
> In the case of Eclipse projects based on Rose models files, the first point is OK, but the second is not.
> I can get the Rose models files but I cannot view the contents of the files, I cannot change them ...
>
As I said, you could change them, but that's splitting hairs. At this
point, the best we can do is move in the right direction.
> Imagine that I create a new compiler, for instance C--, and I make a software with this new compiler. I provide the source files of my software to the community (written in C--), and you need to buy my new compiler C-- to make any change in the sofware. Do you think it is an open source project ?
>
Your point has been made and is valid. I doubt you can even buy Rose 98
anymore. That was two technology revs ago, so it's not as if we are
trying to force you to buy Rose.
> About the EMF Ecore editors, do you really use it to make changes in the models of a project ? You can make a small change with it, but you cannot have a clear view of the project.
>
Many people do use the Ecore editor directly. Also, the generated code
contains @model annotations and a great many folks use EMF by virtue of
writing such annotations directly.
> About the ".genmodel" and "rose" model files, what is the source files ? If it is ".genmodel", you should remove all the "rose" model from the project, because the "rose" model files will be out of synchronisation when some update will be done on the .genmodel.
>
EMF supports a reload mechanism whereby the Ecore model can be
reimported from its source (an XML Schema, a Rose file, @model
annotations) and they the .genmodel synchronizes itself with the new
version of the Ecore model to preserve all the settings that were in
place for the previous Ecore model.
> For me the situation is not good, and the community cannot work on VE project for this reason.
>
Well, there are a lot more issues than just the Rose models and the
community has not been terribly active in contributing until lately.
Kudos to Philippe. It's not entirely clear that the Rose models need
to change as a first order of business and it's not the only way to make
changes. Certainly you could modify the Ecore directly and the
committers could backport those changes to the Rose. And as I've
already pointed out, this story is in the process of being transformed
for the current release cycle, so moving in the right direction is the
best folks can do.
> Regards, Dom
>
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141581 is a reply to message #141570] Thu, 04 October 2007 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dominique is currently offline dominique
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to understand the different packages and classes ...

The first step is to understand the models not to modify them but to understand the different packages. Without this global view provided by the UML rose files, I think that the price to get the global view using the code and the tree ecore view is very high.

You should try to remove from your memory the nice UML rose views and then, go into the ecore editor and try to understand the different java packages and classes ... Good luck !

The UML models are using visual graphs to give an easy way to understand a project. UML is based on graphical views and not tree view like ecore editor. The tree view is useless from an UML point of view and have nothing to do with UML. It is probably the best way to save an UML model, but it is probably the worst way to understand the model.

It could be nice to get at least a viewer of the rose files, like acrobat reader for acrobat files. We can see the UML graphs but we cannot modify them.
If this viewer doesn't exist, it could be nice to get some jpeg files with the main UML graphs. It could be a starting point for a technical documentation of the ve project.
It will help any new comer to make bug fixes.

Regards, Dom
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141590 is a reply to message #141581] Thu, 04 October 2007 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dom,

Comments below.

dominique wrote:
> Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to understand the different packages and classes ...
>
For EMF we include screen captures of the model for that purpose and
even went through the effort of mapping clicks in the diagram to the
Java Doc for that component:

http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.4.0/o rg/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html

So this goal could be accomplished without the tool. Wouldn't it be
nice for a lot of project to provide this type of visual overview?
> The first step is to understand the models not to modify them but to understand the different packages. Without this global view provided by the UML rose files, I think that the price to get the global view using the code and the tree ecore view is very high.
>
That's certainly true, but that comment applies to almost all of
Eclipse, which is not model based.
> You should try to remove from your memory the nice UML rose views and then, go into the ecore editor and try to understand the different java packages and classes ... Good luck !
>
I have a really good memory. :-P But of course you are right, I love
these diagrams, the second one in the above link is my all time
favorite. You can understand almost all of Ecore with just that one
picture. A picture is worth way more than a thousand words!
> The UML models are using visual graphs to give an easy way to understand a project. UML is based on graphical views and not tree view like ecore editor. The tree view is useless from an UML point of view and have nothing to do with UML. It is probably the best way to save an UML model, but it is probably the worst way to understand the model.
>
Well, you keep mentioning UML, but that's certainly not at the top of my
list of cool things. Ecore is at the top of my list. But you really
mean a class diagram and I agree on that point completely.
> It could be nice to get at least a viewer of the rose files, like acrobat reader for acrobat files. We can see the UML graphs but we cannot modify them.
>
I agree. A screen capture is not much to ask for.
> If this viewer doesn't exist, it could be nice to get some jpeg files with the main UML graphs. It could be a starting point for a technical documentation of the ve project.
> It will help any new comer to make bug fixes.
>
I guess you want something just like what we did for the EMF project.
Check out these awesome diagrams from the XSD model. You'd have to read
most of the XML Schema specification to get this much information:

http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/xsd/2.4 .0/org/eclipse/xsd/package-summary.html

So I agree completely that regardless of the tools used to edit a
graphical representation, having class diagrams in the documentation
would be a very good thing.
> Regards, Dom
>


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Dom,<br>
<br>
Comments below.<br>
<br>
dominique wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to understand the different packages and classes ...
</pre>
</blockquote>
For EMF we include screen captures of the model for that purpose and
even went through the effort of mapping clicks in the diagram to the
Java Doc for that component:<br>
<blockquote><a
href=" http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.4.0/o rg/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html"> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.4.0/o rg/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
So this goal could be accomplished without the tool.&nbsp; Wouldn't it be
nice for a lot of project to provide this type of visual overview?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
The first step is to understand the models not to modify them but to understand the different packages. Without this global view provided by the UML rose files, I think that the price to get the global view using the code and the tree ecore view is very high.
</pre>
</blockquote>
That's certainly true, but that comment applies to almost all of
Eclipse, which is not model based.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
You should try to remove from your memory the nice UML rose views and then, go into the ecore editor and try to understand the different java packages and classes ... Good luck !
</pre>
</blockquote>
I have a really good memory.&nbsp; :-P&nbsp; But of course you are right, I love
these diagrams, the second one in the above link is my all time
favorite.&nbsp; You can understand almost all of Ecore with just that one
picture.&nbsp; A picture is worth way more than a thousand words!<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
The UML models are using visual graphs to give an easy way to understand a project. UML is based on graphical views and not tree view like ecore editor. The tree view is useless from an UML point of view and have nothing to do with UML. It is probably the best way to save an UML model, but it is probably the worst way to understand the model.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Well, you keep mentioning UML, but that's certainly not at the top of
my list of cool things.&nbsp; Ecore is at the top of my list.&nbsp; But you
really mean a class diagram and I agree on that point completely.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
It could be nice to get at least a viewer of the rose files, like acrobat reader for acrobat files. We can see the UML graphs but we cannot modify them.
</pre>
</blockquote>
I agree.&nbsp; A screen capture is not much to ask for.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If this viewer doesn't exist, it could be nice to get some jpeg files with the main UML graphs. It could be a starting point for a technical documentation of the ve project.
It will help any new comer to make bug fixes.
</pre>
</blockquote>
I guess you want something just like what we did for the EMF project.&nbsp;
Check out these awesome diagrams from the XSD model. You'd have to read
most of the XML Schema specification to get this much information:<br>
<blockquote><a
href=" http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/xsd/2.4 .0/org/eclipse/xsd/package-summary.html"> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/xsd/2.4 .0/org/eclipse/xsd/package-summary.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
So I agree completely that regardless of the tools used to edit a
graphical representation, having class diagrams in the documentation
would be a very good thing.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Regards, Dom
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------070607040406020501040707--
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141719 is a reply to message #141508] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"dominique" <dominique.vincent10@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1943513632.76911191401261808.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com...
> There are several models used by ve.
> You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects
"org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
> The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
> If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be
able to read those files.
> When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse
projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of Eclipse
projects are using rational rose model files.
> Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without rational
rose software.
> regards,
> Dominique
Good point, but FWIW, i do not have rose, and do not intend to use it as a
new committer on VE.
Most uml diagram tools can importa rose stuff afaik, but this is not
required.
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141729 is a reply to message #141538] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Ed Merks" <merks@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:fe0ikl$i8j$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Rich,
>
> Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
> still using Rose. We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
> good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
> now. What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
> that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g.,
>
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html
>
> This way we can have diagrams that edit Ecore directly and then we can
> throw our crusty old Rose models away. Woo hoo!
>
This is awesome.
EMF rocks!
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141739 is a reply to message #141560] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"dominique" <dominique.vincent10@free.fr> wrote in message
news:905858141.238861191483916672.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com...
> For me, a project is an Open Source project if the following is true :
> 1- The community can access to all the source files used to build the
software.
> 2- The community can read and make changes on the source files.
>
> In the case of Eclipse projects based on Rose models files, the first
point is OK, but the second is not.
> I can get the Rose models files but I cannot view the contents of the
files, I cannot change them ...
Domique: relax:
read my lips: we do not use Rose anymore on the ve project.
In fact I even had removed the "rose" nature from our ve CVS :-)
For now, working straight with ecore editor is good enough for many tasks.
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #141749 is a reply to message #141581] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:12 Go to previous message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"dominique" <dominique.vincent10@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com...
> Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global
view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to
understand the different packages and classes ...
>

I wonder if something like:
argo2ecore:
http://argo2ecore.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/argo2ecore/ argo2ecore/src/docs/index.html?revision=1.16
can work the other way around.
or if an xmi <-> ecore conversion can work well

--
Cheers, Philippe
http://www.nexb.com - http://eclipse.org/ve - http://eclipse.org/atf -
http://easyeclipse.org - http://phpeclipse.net
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616629 is a reply to message #141111] Sat, 29 September 2007 14:23 Go to previous message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"zxc" <caye5200@yahoo.com.cn> wrote in message
news:fddokj$cr7$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hello
> VE hava VE Model: XMI View.xmi,
> now ,have a problem ,VE how to read the xmi ?
> i want get message to store from this xmi file.
zxc:
Which Xmi model are you referring to?
Emf is used for xmi serialization.
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616644 is a reply to message #141111] Wed, 03 October 2007 04:47 Go to previous message
dominique is currently offline dominique
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
There are several models used by ve.
You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects "org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".

The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...

If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be able to read those files.

When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without rational rose software.

regards,
Dominique
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616746 is a reply to message #141508] Wed, 03 October 2007 10:30 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

It is Open source! The problem was that at the time these projects were
being created there was no other UML graphical modeling available that
could be imported into EMF format. At the time Rose was all that was
available.

You can still the model in tree form through the EMF Ecore editors on
the .gemmodel files.



dominique wrote:
> There are several models used by ve.
> You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects "org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
>
> The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
>
> If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be able to read those files.
>
> When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
> Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without rational rose software.
>
> regards,
> Dominique

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616747 is a reply to message #141528] Wed, 03 October 2007 13:13 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 25919
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Rich,

Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
still using Rose. We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
now. What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g.,

http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html

This way we can have diagrams that edit Ecore directly and then we can
throw our crusty old Rose models away. Woo hoo!


Rich Kulp wrote:
> It is Open source! The problem was that at the time these projects
> were being created there was no other UML graphical modeling available
> that could be imported into EMF format. At the time Rose was all that
> was available.
>
> You can still the model in tree form through the EMF Ecore editors on
> the .gemmodel files.
>
>
>
> dominique wrote:
>> There are several models used by ve.
>> You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects
>> "org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
>>
>> The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
>>
>> If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not
>> be able to read those files.
>>
>> When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse
>> projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of
>> Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
>> Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without
>> rational rose software.
>>
>> regards,
>> Dominique
>


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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Rich,<br>
<br>
Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
still using Rose.&nbsp; We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
now.&nbsp; What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g., <br>
<blockquote><a
href="http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html">http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
This way we can have diagrams that edit Ecore directly and then we can
throw our crusty old Rose models away.&nbsp; Woo hoo!<br>
<br>
<br>
Rich Kulp wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:fe091c$qj$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">It is
Open source! The problem was that at the time these projects were being
created there was no other UML graphical modeling available that could
be imported into EMF format. At the time Rose was all that was
available.
<br>
<br>
You can still the model in tree form through the EMF Ecore editors on
the .gemmodel files.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
dominique wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">There are several models used by ve.
<br>
You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects
"org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
<br>
<br>
The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
<br>
<br>
If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be
able to read those files.
<br>
<br>
When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse
projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of
Eclipse projects are using rational rose model files.
<br>
Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without
rational rose software.
<br>
<br>
regards,
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dominique
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------000702080407060806060200--
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616748 is a reply to message #141538] Wed, 03 October 2007 13:45 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

Hi Ed,

That would be great. I tried the sample GMF one but the problem was it
was too literal in matching the ECore model. It was simply a one-for-one
match to the internal layout of an Ecore file with the nicety of making
it graphical instead. For example if I wanted to add a description to a
property in Rose and in IBM RSA I would simply set the description in
the property sheet. But with the sample GMF I had to create a MetaData
annotation and know the correct id to set on it and the correct setting
to use for the description. It didn't hide all of the internal gorp of
Ecore files and present it in a straight forward manner.

Ed Merks wrote:
> Rich,
>
> Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
> still using Rose. We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
> good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
> now. What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
> that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g.,
>
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html
>

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616749 is a reply to message #141528] Thu, 04 October 2007 03:44 Go to previous message
dominique is currently offline dominique
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
For me, a project is an Open Source project if the following is true :
1- The community can access to all the source files used to build the software.
2- The community can read and make changes on the source files.

In the case of Eclipse projects based on Rose models files, the first point is OK, but the second is not.
I can get the Rose models files but I cannot view the contents of the files, I cannot change them ...

Imagine that I create a new compiler, for instance C--, and I make a software with this new compiler. I provide the source files of my software to the community (written in C--), and you need to buy my new compiler C-- to make any change in the sofware. Do you think it is an open source project ?

About the EMF Ecore editors, do you really use it to make changes in the models of a project ? You can make a small change with it, but you cannot have a clear view of the project.

About the ".genmodel" and "rose" model files, what is the source files ? If it is ".genmodel", you should remove all the "rose" model from the project, because the "rose" model files will be out of synchronisation when some update will be done on the .genmodel.

For me the situation is not good, and the community cannot work on VE project for this reason.

Regards, Dom
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616750 is a reply to message #141560] Thu, 04 October 2007 13:16 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 25919
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Dom,

Comments below.


dominique wrote:
> For me, a project is an Open Source project if the following is true :
> 1- The community can access to all the source files used to build the software.
> 2- The community can read and make changes on the source files.
>
I think all these are true. Though pointing out that you can edit .cat
or .mdl file is hardly a helpful suggestion. The fact that our project
was bootstrapped from these and that the community took a long time to
provide open source equivalents of sufficient quality to replace them is
our only poor excuse.
> In the case of Eclipse projects based on Rose models files, the first point is OK, but the second is not.
> I can get the Rose models files but I cannot view the contents of the files, I cannot change them ...
>
As I said, you could change them, but that's splitting hairs. At this
point, the best we can do is move in the right direction.
> Imagine that I create a new compiler, for instance C--, and I make a software with this new compiler. I provide the source files of my software to the community (written in C--), and you need to buy my new compiler C-- to make any change in the sofware. Do you think it is an open source project ?
>
Your point has been made and is valid. I doubt you can even buy Rose 98
anymore. That was two technology revs ago, so it's not as if we are
trying to force you to buy Rose.
> About the EMF Ecore editors, do you really use it to make changes in the models of a project ? You can make a small change with it, but you cannot have a clear view of the project.
>
Many people do use the Ecore editor directly. Also, the generated code
contains @model annotations and a great many folks use EMF by virtue of
writing such annotations directly.
> About the ".genmodel" and "rose" model files, what is the source files ? If it is ".genmodel", you should remove all the "rose" model from the project, because the "rose" model files will be out of synchronisation when some update will be done on the .genmodel.
>
EMF supports a reload mechanism whereby the Ecore model can be
reimported from its source (an XML Schema, a Rose file, @model
annotations) and they the .genmodel synchronizes itself with the new
version of the Ecore model to preserve all the settings that were in
place for the previous Ecore model.
> For me the situation is not good, and the community cannot work on VE project for this reason.
>
Well, there are a lot more issues than just the Rose models and the
community has not been terribly active in contributing until lately.
Kudos to Philippe. It's not entirely clear that the Rose models need
to change as a first order of business and it's not the only way to make
changes. Certainly you could modify the Ecore directly and the
committers could backport those changes to the Rose. And as I've
already pointed out, this story is in the process of being transformed
for the current release cycle, so moving in the right direction is the
best folks can do.
> Regards, Dom
>
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616751 is a reply to message #141570] Thu, 04 October 2007 17:06 Go to previous message
dominique is currently offline dominique
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to understand the different packages and classes ...

The first step is to understand the models not to modify them but to understand the different packages. Without this global view provided by the UML rose files, I think that the price to get the global view using the code and the tree ecore view is very high.

You should try to remove from your memory the nice UML rose views and then, go into the ecore editor and try to understand the different java packages and classes ... Good luck !

The UML models are using visual graphs to give an easy way to understand a project. UML is based on graphical views and not tree view like ecore editor. The tree view is useless from an UML point of view and have nothing to do with UML. It is probably the best way to save an UML model, but it is probably the worst way to understand the model.

It could be nice to get at least a viewer of the rose files, like acrobat reader for acrobat files. We can see the UML graphs but we cannot modify them.
If this viewer doesn't exist, it could be nice to get some jpeg files with the main UML graphs. It could be a starting point for a technical documentation of the ve project.
It will help any new comer to make bug fixes.

Regards, Dom
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616752 is a reply to message #141581] Thu, 04 October 2007 20:07 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 25919
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
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Dom,

Comments below.

dominique wrote:
> Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to understand the different packages and classes ...
>
For EMF we include screen captures of the model for that purpose and
even went through the effort of mapping clicks in the diagram to the
Java Doc for that component:

http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.4.0/o rg/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html

So this goal could be accomplished without the tool. Wouldn't it be
nice for a lot of project to provide this type of visual overview?
> The first step is to understand the models not to modify them but to understand the different packages. Without this global view provided by the UML rose files, I think that the price to get the global view using the code and the tree ecore view is very high.
>
That's certainly true, but that comment applies to almost all of
Eclipse, which is not model based.
> You should try to remove from your memory the nice UML rose views and then, go into the ecore editor and try to understand the different java packages and classes ... Good luck !
>
I have a really good memory. :-P But of course you are right, I love
these diagrams, the second one in the above link is my all time
favorite. You can understand almost all of Ecore with just that one
picture. A picture is worth way more than a thousand words!
> The UML models are using visual graphs to give an easy way to understand a project. UML is based on graphical views and not tree view like ecore editor. The tree view is useless from an UML point of view and have nothing to do with UML. It is probably the best way to save an UML model, but it is probably the worst way to understand the model.
>
Well, you keep mentioning UML, but that's certainly not at the top of my
list of cool things. Ecore is at the top of my list. But you really
mean a class diagram and I agree on that point completely.
> It could be nice to get at least a viewer of the rose files, like acrobat reader for acrobat files. We can see the UML graphs but we cannot modify them.
>
I agree. A screen capture is not much to ask for.
> If this viewer doesn't exist, it could be nice to get some jpeg files with the main UML graphs. It could be a starting point for a technical documentation of the ve project.
> It will help any new comer to make bug fixes.
>
I guess you want something just like what we did for the EMF project.
Check out these awesome diagrams from the XSD model. You'd have to read
most of the XML Schema specification to get this much information:

http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/xsd/2.4 .0/org/eclipse/xsd/package-summary.html

So I agree completely that regardless of the tools used to edit a
graphical representation, having class diagrams in the documentation
would be a very good thing.
> Regards, Dom
>


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Dom,<br>
<br>
Comments below.<br>
<br>
dominique wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to understand the different packages and classes ...
</pre>
</blockquote>
For EMF we include screen captures of the model for that purpose and
even went through the effort of mapping clicks in the diagram to the
Java Doc for that component:<br>
<blockquote><a
href=" http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.4.0/o rg/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html"> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.4.0/o rg/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
So this goal could be accomplished without the tool.&nbsp; Wouldn't it be
nice for a lot of project to provide this type of visual overview?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
The first step is to understand the models not to modify them but to understand the different packages. Without this global view provided by the UML rose files, I think that the price to get the global view using the code and the tree ecore view is very high.
</pre>
</blockquote>
That's certainly true, but that comment applies to almost all of
Eclipse, which is not model based.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
You should try to remove from your memory the nice UML rose views and then, go into the ecore editor and try to understand the different java packages and classes ... Good luck !
</pre>
</blockquote>
I have a really good memory.&nbsp; :-P&nbsp; But of course you are right, I love
these diagrams, the second one in the above link is my all time
favorite.&nbsp; You can understand almost all of Ecore with just that one
picture.&nbsp; A picture is worth way more than a thousand words!<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
The UML models are using visual graphs to give an easy way to understand a project. UML is based on graphical views and not tree view like ecore editor. The tree view is useless from an UML point of view and have nothing to do with UML. It is probably the best way to save an UML model, but it is probably the worst way to understand the model.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Well, you keep mentioning UML, but that's certainly not at the top of
my list of cool things.&nbsp; Ecore is at the top of my list.&nbsp; But you
really mean a class diagram and I agree on that point completely.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
It could be nice to get at least a viewer of the rose files, like acrobat reader for acrobat files. We can see the UML graphs but we cannot modify them.
</pre>
</blockquote>
I agree.&nbsp; A screen capture is not much to ask for.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If this viewer doesn't exist, it could be nice to get some jpeg files with the main UML graphs. It could be a starting point for a technical documentation of the ve project.
It will help any new comer to make bug fixes.
</pre>
</blockquote>
I guess you want something just like what we did for the EMF project.&nbsp;
Check out these awesome diagrams from the XSD model. You'd have to read
most of the XML Schema specification to get this much information:<br>
<blockquote><a
href=" http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/xsd/2.4 .0/org/eclipse/xsd/package-summary.html"> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/xsd/2.4 .0/org/eclipse/xsd/package-summary.html</a><br>
</blockquote>
So I agree completely that regardless of the tools used to edit a
graphical representation, having class diagrams in the documentation
would be a very good thing.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Regards, Dom
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------070607040406020501040707--
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616765 is a reply to message #141508] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:02 Go to previous message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"dominique" <dominique.vincent10@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1943513632.76911191401261808.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com...
> There are several models used by ve.
> You can find them in the subdirectory "rose" of the projects
"org.eclipse.ve.core" , "org.eclipse.ve.cde".
> The files are "jcmmodel.mdl", "cdeModels.mdl", "cdmmodel.mdl" ...
> If you don't have rational rose software in your PC, you should not be
able to read those files.
> When I realised this fact few weeks ago, I conclude that the Eclipse
projects are not really open source projects. The base of a lot of Eclipse
projects are using rational rose model files.
> Those files are in the project, but you cannot view them without rational
rose software.
> regards,
> Dominique
Good point, but FWIW, i do not have rose, and do not intend to use it as a
new committer on VE.
Most uml diagram tools can importa rose stuff afaik, but this is not
required.
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616766 is a reply to message #141538] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:03 Go to previous message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Ed Merks" <merks@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:fe0ikl$i8j$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Rich,
>
> Yes, we feel bad that for many of our models even in EMF today we are
> still using Rose. We could switch to UML2 but they didn't provide a
> good free diagramming tool either, though there is one in the works
> now. What we will very soon have instead is a graphical Ecore editor
> that's an improvement over the example one from GMF, e.g.,
>
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/emft-dev/msg00148.html
>
> This way we can have diagrams that edit Ecore directly and then we can
> throw our crusty old Rose models away. Woo hoo!
>
This is awesome.
EMF rocks!
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616767 is a reply to message #141560] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:05 Go to previous message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"dominique" <dominique.vincent10@free.fr> wrote in message
news:905858141.238861191483916672.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com...
> For me, a project is an Open Source project if the following is true :
> 1- The community can access to all the source files used to build the
software.
> 2- The community can read and make changes on the source files.
>
> In the case of Eclipse projects based on Rose models files, the first
point is OK, but the second is not.
> I can get the Rose models files but I cannot view the contents of the
files, I cannot change them ...
Domique: relax:
read my lips: we do not use Rose anymore on the ve project.
In fact I even had removed the "rose" nature from our ve CVS :-)
For now, working straight with ecore editor is good enough for many tasks.
Re: How to parse the VE Model: XMI View.xmi [message #616768 is a reply to message #141581] Sat, 13 October 2007 03:12 Go to previous message
Philippe Ombredanne is currently offline Philippe Ombredanne
Messages: 386
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"dominique" <dominique.vincent10@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1687732936.1771191532017986.JavaMail.root@cp9.dzone.com...
> Thanks for your reply but you should understand that without the global
view of the ve project using the rose files, it seems to be very hard to
understand the different packages and classes ...
>

I wonder if something like:
argo2ecore:
http://argo2ecore.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/argo2ecore/ argo2ecore/src/docs/index.html?revision=1.16
can work the other way around.
or if an xmi <-> ecore conversion can work well

--
Cheers, Philippe
http://www.nexb.com - http://eclipse.org/ve - http://eclipse.org/atf -
http://easyeclipse.org - http://phpeclipse.net
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