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Open Business Framework [message #11481] Mon, 28 November 2005 12:25 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: weberjn.hotmail.com

If you look at the Functional Architecture graphic on
http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/eclipse-ohf/main.php, you see a lot of
squares that are needed by any business application (those in the first
three columns).

I don't see a lot of difference between entering patient data for a
hospital or entering customer data for an insurance company.

So, what about extracting the general business functionality from OHF into
an Open Business Framework?

OHF extends OBF

This would vastly enhance the user base of this framework.

Juergen
Re: Open Business Framework [message #11518 is a reply to message #11481] Mon, 28 November 2005 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: eishays.us.ibm.com

> I don't see a lot of difference between entering patient data for a
> hospital or entering customer data for an insurance company.
Some differences might be:
* Protocols (ASC X12 for insurance, HL7/PIX profile for healthcare)
* Identification mechanizes and mapping (CAD and CDO ID a patient might
have)
* Data restrictions enforced by HIPPA causing the patient info to look
different in both systems.
There are few things that both scenarios have in common are some basic
demographic data, but I wonder if this by its own is a good enough
reason for such an architectural decision. I guess a common demographic
data structure is more reasonable.
By the way, I am not saying that this was not a good idea, just saying
that we need a better case. And another thing, don’t use “Open Business
Framework” without checking it first with SAP ;-)

Eishay
Re: Common Business Framework [message #11554 is a reply to message #11518] Tue, 29 November 2005 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: weberjn.hotmail.com

Eishay Smith wrote:

> There are few things that both scenarios have in common are some basic
> demographic data, but I wonder if this by its own is a good enough
> reason for such an architectural decision. I guess a common demographic
> data structure is more reasonable.

Yes, there certainly is health specific functionality. But it should be in
a layer above the Common Business Framework, whereas the business
framework should know nothing about X-ray images. And other areas like
banking, insurance, retail or government could base their applications on
the Common Business Framework (or even on their own frameworks based on
Common Business Framework).

In the Common Business Framework I see functionality like

o Security
o Communication
o Data mapping
o Data presentation
o Data persistence
o Reports
o Document archiving
o Workflow

Everything of these you need in an health administration application, but
also in every other business application.

> And another thing, don’t use “Open Business
> Framework” without checking it first with SAP ;-)

Yes, indeed, Common Business Framework might make it a lot easier to start
a competition to SAP.

Juergen
Re: Common Business Framework [message #11591 is a reply to message #11554] Wed, 30 November 2005 16:39 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 96
Registered: July 2009
Member
Juergen Weber wrote:

> Eishay Smith wrote:
>>* Data restrictions enforced by HIPPA causing the patient info to look
>>different in both systems
HIPPA is only for US users and applications. It is of no relevance for
apps in the UK, other EU countries or Asia. I am not even sure, if Canada
has adopted it, or if it is US only.
So unlike international standards like HL7 or ICD this must also be an
(optional) layer and component, not a core part of OHF.
Otherwise the user base will be limited to only US or maybe North America.
And that does not seem to meet the ideas of the Eclipse Foundation
(covering most of the IT-enabled world ;-)

>> There are few things that both scenarios have in common are some basic
>> demographic data, but I wonder if this by its own is a good enough
>> reason for such an architectural decision. I guess a common demographic
>> data structure is more reasonable.

> Yes, there certainly is health specific functionality. But it should be in
> a layer above the Common Business Framework, whereas the business
> framework should know nothing about X-ray images. And other areas like
> banking, insurance, retail or government could base their applications on
> the Common Business Framework (or even on their own frameworks based on
> Common Business Framework).

> In the Common Business Framework I see functionality like

> o Security
> o Communication
> o Data mapping
> o Data presentation
> o Data persistence
> o Reports
> o Document archiving
> o Workflow

Some of those ideas sound very good. Keep in mind, that parts like Data
mapping or persistence have just been covered by major new Eclipse
projects like DTP, or the Data presentation might be useful together with
projects such as BIRT...
I guess there is also already a Workflow sub-project?

> Everything of these you need in an health administration application, but
> also in every other business application.

>> And another thing, don’t use “Open Business
>> Framework” without checking it first with SAP ;-)

> Yes, indeed, Common Business Framework might make it a lot easier to start
> a competition to SAP.

> Juergen
Try to propagate that idea of competing with SAP to IBM ;-)
You might get a lot more support from them doing so?

Werner
Re: Open Business Framework [message #565860 is a reply to message #11481] Mon, 28 November 2005 17:31 Go to previous message
Eishay Smith is currently offline Eishay Smith
Messages: 109
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> I don't see a lot of difference between entering patient data for a
> hospital or entering customer data for an insurance company.
Some differences might be:
* Protocols (ASC X12 for insurance, HL7/PIX profile for healthcare)
* Identification mechanizes and mapping (CAD and CDO ID a patient might
have)
* Data restrictions enforced by HIPPA causing the patient info to look
different in both systems.
There are few things that both scenarios have in common are some basic
demographic data, but I wonder if this by its own is a good enough
reason for such an architectural decision. I guess a common demographic
data structure is more reasonable.
By the way, I am not saying that this was not a good idea, just saying
that we need a better case. And another thing, don’t use “Open Business
Framework” without checking it first with SAP ;-)

Eishay
Re: Common Business Framework [message #565893 is a reply to message #11518] Tue, 29 November 2005 12:31 Go to previous message
Juergen Weber is currently offline Juergen Weber
Messages: 54
Registered: July 2009
Member
Eishay Smith wrote:

> There are few things that both scenarios have in common are some basic
> demographic data, but I wonder if this by its own is a good enough
> reason for such an architectural decision. I guess a common demographic
> data structure is more reasonable.

Yes, there certainly is health specific functionality. But it should be in
a layer above the Common Business Framework, whereas the business
framework should know nothing about X-ray images. And other areas like
banking, insurance, retail or government could base their applications on
the Common Business Framework (or even on their own frameworks based on
Common Business Framework).

In the Common Business Framework I see functionality like

o Security
o Communication
o Data mapping
o Data presentation
o Data persistence
o Reports
o Document archiving
o Workflow

Everything of these you need in an health administration application, but
also in every other business application.

> And another thing, don’t use “Open Business
> Framework” without checking it first with SAP ;-)

Yes, indeed, Common Business Framework might make it a lot easier to start
a competition to SAP.

Juergen
Re: Common Business Framework [message #565912 is a reply to message #11554] Wed, 30 November 2005 16:39 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 96
Registered: July 2009
Member
Juergen Weber wrote:

> Eishay Smith wrote:
>>* Data restrictions enforced by HIPPA causing the patient info to look
>>different in both systems
HIPPA is only for US users and applications. It is of no relevance for
apps in the UK, other EU countries or Asia. I am not even sure, if Canada
has adopted it, or if it is US only.
So unlike international standards like HL7 or ICD this must also be an
(optional) layer and component, not a core part of OHF.
Otherwise the user base will be limited to only US or maybe North America.
And that does not seem to meet the ideas of the Eclipse Foundation
(covering most of the IT-enabled world ;-)

>> There are few things that both scenarios have in common are some basic
>> demographic data, but I wonder if this by its own is a good enough
>> reason for such an architectural decision. I guess a common demographic
>> data structure is more reasonable.

> Yes, there certainly is health specific functionality. But it should be in
> a layer above the Common Business Framework, whereas the business
> framework should know nothing about X-ray images. And other areas like
> banking, insurance, retail or government could base their applications on
> the Common Business Framework (or even on their own frameworks based on
> Common Business Framework).

> In the Common Business Framework I see functionality like

> o Security
> o Communication
> o Data mapping
> o Data presentation
> o Data persistence
> o Reports
> o Document archiving
> o Workflow

Some of those ideas sound very good. Keep in mind, that parts like Data
mapping or persistence have just been covered by major new Eclipse
projects like DTP, or the Data presentation might be useful together with
projects such as BIRT...
I guess there is also already a Workflow sub-project?

> Everything of these you need in an health administration application, but
> also in every other business application.

>> And another thing, don’t use “Open Business
>> Framework” without checking it first with SAP ;-)

> Yes, indeed, Common Business Framework might make it a lot easier to start
> a competition to SAP.

> Juergen
Try to propagate that idea of competing with SAP to IBM ;-)
You might get a lot more support from them doing so?

Werner
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