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4.5 Component Reorganization [message #120166] Fri, 04 January 2008 07:41 Go to next message
Gabriele Garuglieri is currently offline Gabriele Garuglieri
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi all,
while trying to understand with my son how to profile an application, a
toy genetic algorithm (more or less the java equivalent of SGA from
Goldberg book), with TPTP 4.4, i discovered that 10 generations of
collected data, about 0,070 seconds of computation time without profiling
and about 120 seconds with profiling, were enough do bring a 3 GHz dual
core pentium machine with 2 GB ram on its knees.
100% cpu, with eclipse completely frozen (do you know the in-famous "xxx
is not responding" windows message?), for 5 minutes (no memory
constraints, still 600 MB free) just clicking (no double click, just
single) on a method on the Execution Statistic Session Summary panel and
50% cpu steady just opening and closing the Edit profiling option panel to
change profile filter and doing nothing else.

So while trying to understand if i was doing something wrong or it is a
bug i stumbled on the following:
http://wiki.eclipse.org/4.5_Component_Reorganization and i was iced.

May be i'm wrong but it looks like anything useful for an end user is
being stripped away from TPTP to leave only the API core on which your
sponsors can build their commercial products.
It looks that while Sun with netbeans is bringing more and more end user
functions to the open source, your sponsors are moving you in the opposite
direction.

I'm i right? I need to understand this clearly because even if the above
was just a sort of game, really i had the secret scope to evaluate if TPTP
could be useful to better the code quality of my developers, but if this
is the case i have to stop thinking of TPTP as a profiling tool and look
for something else.

Thanks in advance, Gabriele
Re: 4.5 Component Reorganization [message #120192 is a reply to message #120166] Fri, 04 January 2008 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: mauro.molinari.cardinis.com

Hi Gabriele,
I perfectly understand what you mean...
Some time ago I had similar problems: I spent entire days struggling
with TPTP, trying to get some decent results from it and eventually I
gave up... then, I tried NetBeans 5.5 Profiler and after a couple of
hours I could (install NetBeans from scratch, set up a new project with
the help of a collegue of mine and) profile my application and solve the
performance problem I had!!!!!!

I posted a message here in the newsgroup (try to search for my message
of 2007/09/12, subject "Some personal thoughts about profiling with
TPTP") and split it up on different bug reports that might interest you:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=93452
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=200839

Other problems I experienced:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=200697
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=203414

Moreover, by my own experience and looking at this newsgroup I feel like
TPTP is in some way weak in its architecture: I mean, there are so many
messages like "cannot profile", "agent controller not working", "timeout
problem" and so on... Maybe I'm missing something, but NetBeans Profiler
works out-of-the-box, without the need of any external "agent
controller" and with uncomparable performance results... :-(

Cheers,
Mauro.
Re: 4.5 Component Reorganization [message #120217 is a reply to message #120192] Fri, 04 January 2008 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gabriele Garuglieri is currently offline Gabriele Garuglieri
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009
Member
Oh well! I see...
I red your references and did some more searches and even if didn't spend
so much time as you, my mileage was exactly the same as yours and that
described in bug https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=93452.
And what's worst, i see from it that the very same problems are known at
least since 2005, but the solutions of such serious problems are still
being postponed.

I never tried before TPTP , but as a matter of fact given these premises
and my experiences, unless you are profiling a HelloWorld app, TPTP is not
a usable product. And the fact that nobody seems to really care of this
since years makes me thinking that it has entered the sunset boulevard and
is gonna die of a slow death like VE and other projects.

Then i guess that, despite any answer to my previous question, i have to
abandon the idea to use it, or any commercial product based on it, in my
development group.

Thanks for your kind response, Gabriele
Re: 4.5 Component Reorganization [message #120230 is a reply to message #120166] Fri, 04 January 2008 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Slauenwhite is currently offline Paul Slauenwhite
Messages: 970
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Gabriele,
Thanks for your interest in TPTP.

The recent component reorganization was to accommodate the decrease in
resources for the 4.5 plan. In response, we are investing heavily into
automating our manual tests and creating an automated Build Verification
Testing (BVTing) environment based on TPTP to run these automated tests with
every build and to reducing our testing workload (see
http://wiki.eclipse.org/4.5_Test_Automation_Initiative).

In addition, we examined what our consumers were building on, what our
users were primarily using, and what TPTP function was stable enough to
reduce support and the result was
http://wiki.eclipse.org/4.5_Component_Reorganization. There are many
components in TPTP and this reorganization only impacts a couple of those
components. Now that we have reduced support for a couple of components, we
can refocus our efforts on new enhancements and improving the quality of the
many existing components. For example, there are several enhancements and
an ongoing working group dedicated to improving the user experience and
stability of the Java Profiler (see
http://wiki.eclipse.org/TPTP_User_Experiences_Profiling).

Paul
"Gabriele Garuglieri" <gabriele.garuglieri@infoblu.it> wrote in message
news:ebbf46faafd51c7ead3d4f2ef6122618$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Hi all,
> while trying to understand with my son how to profile an application, a
> toy genetic algorithm (more or less the java equivalent of SGA from
> Goldberg book), with TPTP 4.4, i discovered that 10 generations of
> collected data, about 0,070 seconds of computation time without profiling
> and about 120 seconds with profiling, were enough do bring a 3 GHz dual
> core pentium machine with 2 GB ram on its knees.
> 100% cpu, with eclipse completely frozen (do you know the in-famous "xxx
> is not responding" windows message?), for 5 minutes (no memory
> constraints, still 600 MB free) just clicking (no double click, just
> single) on a method on the Execution Statistic Session Summary panel and
> 50% cpu steady just opening and closing the Edit profiling option panel to
> change profile filter and doing nothing else.
>
> So while trying to understand if i was doing something wrong or it is a
> bug i stumbled on the following:
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/4.5_Component_Reorganization and i was iced.
>
> May be i'm wrong but it looks like anything useful for an end user is
> being stripped away from TPTP to leave only the API core on which your
> sponsors can build their commercial products.
> It looks that while Sun with netbeans is bringing more and more end user
> functions to the open source, your sponsors are moving you in the opposite
> direction.
>
> I'm i right? I need to understand this clearly because even if the above
> was just a sort of game, really i had the secret scope to evaluate if TPTP
> could be useful to better the code quality of my developers, but if this
> is the case i have to stop thinking of TPTP as a profiling tool and look
> for something else.
>
> Thanks in advance, Gabriele
>
>
Re: 4.5 Component Reorganization [message #121836 is a reply to message #120230] Sat, 02 February 2008 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: amottadelli_NO_SPAM.it.ibm.com

Paul,
my the experience in using TPTP has been terrible too.
My impression is that TPTP simply tries to do too much.
The profiler is what the people really needs and use..... and
unfortunately it is not improving. Release after relase is becoming
slower and more difficult to use.

Regards,
Sandro
Re: 4.5 Component Reorganization [message #121893 is a reply to message #121836] Mon, 04 February 2008 12:06 Go to previous message
Paul Slauenwhite is currently offline Paul Slauenwhite
Messages: 970
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Sandro,
I can appreciate your opinion. In response, part of motivation for the
4.5 Component Reorganization is to reduce project operating costs but the
other part was to reduce the breadth of TPTP to focus more on our core
frameworks and function. Specific to the Java Profiler, we started in
October 2007 an initiative called Profiler of the God (POG) to resolve
several functional and usability issues with the Java Profiler. I encourage
you to view the status and participate in the effort:

http://wiki.eclipse.org/TPTP_POG_Meet

Paul
"Alessandro Mottadelli" <amottadelli_NO_SPAM@it.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:fo1ou8$1oo$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Paul,
> my the experience in using TPTP has been terrible too.
> My impression is that TPTP simply tries to do too much.
> The profiler is what the people really needs and use..... and
> unfortunately it is not improving. Release after relase is becoming slower
> and more difficult to use.
>
> Regards,
> Sandro
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