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OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #10267] Sun, 13 April 2008 17:15 Go to next message
Ben Garbers is currently offline Ben Garbers
Messages: 4
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I went through the demos on the site you sent to us. I have some concerns
on using OSEE based on the setup of the server side. This was the
comments I originally had making the plugin on the eclipse client file
based. You could think of a view like they have for web.xml files where a
user could download the plugin and then be able to right away input
requirements information. If they are dependent on OSEE in communicating
with the plugin they will have to set this up which for novice users could
take some time. Individuals who do requirements usually are not database
setup savvy. Originally, you said you did not want individuals to have to
be very technical with cvs or subversion to check there files in and
actually had experience in this where it was very ugly. However, even if
they did not use cvs or subversion they could enter their requirements and
it would be stored on their local pc within eclipse. It would be up to
them to back the requirements up within eclipse then...Whether they would
use cvs, subversion or just backup their directory of where there project
is located would be up to them.

I almost think that when designing this we should offer the flexibility of
a user to choose whether they want to use an OSEE backend or to just input
information where it would be stored in an xml based file. This would
give customers flexibility to choose whether or not they would want to set
up the osee environment so their eclipse clients could communicate to it.
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #10301 is a reply to message #10267] Mon, 14 April 2008 04:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Achim Loerke is currently offline Achim Loerke
Messages: 314
Registered: July 2009
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Senior Member

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:15:31 +0000 (UTC), bengarbers@gmail.com (Ben
Garbers) wrote:

>
>I almost think that when designing this we should offer the flexibility of
>a user to choose whether they want to use an OSEE backend or to just input
>information where it would be stored in an xml based file. This would
>give customers flexibility to choose whether or not they would want to set
>up the osee environment so their eclipse clients could communicate to it.

I see your point that a user should not be concerned with servers
and/or DB connections.

On the other hand (from my experience) projects which actually use a
development process (with all the artefacts like requirements, test
specifications, ...) are done by several people. A file based solution
would be next to useless in such an environment. You can't get the
document locking and merging right and would end up having all files
scattered throughout the workspaces.

Considering the limited resources avalilable on OSEE/ORMF I would go
for a server/DB solution and try to include a small footstep server/DB
as a simple (and limited?) single user solution.


Achim
--
Achim Lörke

Eclipse-Stammtisch in the Braunschweig, Germany area:
http://www.bredex.de/de/career/eclipse.html


Achim Lörke

Jubula Funtional Testing Tool:http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/jubula
Eclipse-Stammtisch Braunschweig: http://www.bredex.de/de/news/eclipse.html
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #10367 is a reply to message #10301] Tue, 22 April 2008 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Donald Dunne is currently offline Donald Dunne
Messages: 191
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
>
> Considering the limited resources avalilable on OSEE/ORMF I would go
> for a server/DB solution and try to include a small footstep server/DB
> as a simple (and limited?) single user solution.
>
>
> Achim

Great idea. We were thinking of providing 3 types of downloads from the
OSEE project site and would be very interested in any thoughts
recommendations.

One would be for the simplest of uses where we would bundle an open
source database, like Derby, with the release. This would allow the
user or small team of users to test out OSEE or use it for some simple
projects. One thing to keep in mind would be the difficulty of
providing a one-size-fits-all solution. We would need to provide an
easy way for the user to specify their requirements hierarchy in order
to configure OSEE correctly. This is where we like ORMF's solution of
providing schema's describing the models that could drive the
configuration and, as in ORMF, the creation of the specific editors
needed/desired by the user.

The second would be an OSEE release with database and demo data. This
would be our demonstration model that users could download and take for
a test drive. It would contain data and be tied tightly to screencasts
that describe the features of OSEE. We currently have a version of this
bundled with the PostgreSQL database (available via email, if
interested). Unfortunately, we can not provide it through the
Eclipse.org/osee site due to PostgreSQL's pedigree. Due to this, we are
feverishly trying to get Derby working for not only this solution, but
the previous one.

The third would be the deployment to a large and/or multi-site project
that would include all the steps necessary to configure and setup.
Although the simplest case could certainly work as a file-based system
and there are even solutions that exist that do this, our experience was
with 300+ users accessing artifact data in parallel. This is where re
ran into problems.
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #10400 is a reply to message #10267] Tue, 22 April 2008 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Donald Dunne is currently offline Donald Dunne
Messages: 191
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Ben Garbers wrote:
> input requirements information. If they are dependent on OSEE in
> communicating with the plugin they will have to set this up which for
> novice users could take some time. Individuals who do requirements
> usually are not database setup savvy.

Please see the more detailed post to Achim Lorke's response that lays
out different approaches to deployment depending on the needs of the user.

We definitely agree that there is a great need for a simple requirements
solution. One of the deployments we planned to offer, and are certainly
interested in comments, is an OSEE release bundled with a small
footprint open source database like Derby. This would provide the basic
capabilities without the large overhead of the server-side setup.

We currently have one bundled with PostgreSQL, but are unable to provide
it from the eclipse.org site due to it's pedigree (it is available via
email if interested). It is a single executable jar that installs OSEE,
PostgreSQL and populates the database with demo data. The user simply
clicks the short-cut and is off. I would think the same solution could
be provided for the simplest of deployments as long as we can figure out
a good way to allow the user to configure/customize the installation to
fit their requirements (or other artifact capture) needs.
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #10433 is a reply to message #10400] Wed, 23 April 2008 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
On 2008-04-22 23:26:27 +0100, Don Dunne <donald.g.dunne@boeing.com> said:

> Ben Garbers wrote:
>> input requirements information. If they are dependent on OSEE in
>> communicating with the plugin they will have to set this up which for
>> novice users could take some time. Individuals who do requirements
>> usually are not database setup savvy.
>
> Please see the more detailed post to Achim Lorke's response that lays
> out different approaches to deployment depending on the needs of the
> user.
>
> We definitely agree that there is a great need for a simple
> requirements solution. One of the deployments we planned to offer, and
> are certainly interested in comments, is an OSEE release bundled with a
> small footprint open source database like Derby. This would provide
> the basic capabilities without the large overhead of the server-side
> setup.
>
> We currently have one bundled with PostgreSQL, but are unable to
> provide it from the eclipse.org site due to it's pedigree (it is
> available via email if interested). It is a single executable jar that
> installs OSEE, PostgreSQL and populates the database with demo data.
> The user simply clicks the short-cut and is off. I would think the
> same solution could be provided for the simplest of deployments as long
> as we can figure out a good way to allow the user to
> configure/customize the installation to fit their requirements (or
> other artifact capture) needs.

For those who are not quite familiar with Derby, I would like to note a
couple of the key "features" of it.
1. It is a very low foot print database
2. It takes little (or no) management by the user, i.e. a DB Admin is
not necessary
3. It can be ran in embedded mode or server mode. In both cases its
life cycle can be managed by the application or application server, so
no extra overhead is put onto the user.
4. It is robust.
5. IBM will support it commercially if the end user desires the
security blanket.

We have been using for a few years with Useme/ORMF with next no problems.

Joel
--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LQPeBiQeceuCw [message #12059 is a reply to message #10433] Tue, 08 July 2008 07:16 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: topgvl.hcseek.com

JURQer <a href="http://ucswaouibvmi.com/">ucswaouibvmi</a>,
pdltfnzyampf,
ulmerbhqaouo[/link],
http://dhngasmcqttz.com/
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #563440 is a reply to message #10267] Mon, 14 April 2008 04:03 Go to previous message
Achim Loerke is currently offline Achim Loerke
Messages: 314
Registered: July 2009
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Senior Member

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:15:31 +0000 (UTC), bengarbers@gmail.com (Ben
Garbers) wrote:

>
>I almost think that when designing this we should offer the flexibility of
>a user to choose whether they want to use an OSEE backend or to just input
>information where it would be stored in an xml based file. This would
>give customers flexibility to choose whether or not they would want to set
>up the osee environment so their eclipse clients could communicate to it.

I see your point that a user should not be concerned with servers
and/or DB connections.

On the other hand (from my experience) projects which actually use a
development process (with all the artefacts like requirements, test
specifications, ...) are done by several people. A file based solution
would be next to useless in such an environment. You can't get the
document locking and merging right and would end up having all files
scattered throughout the workspaces.

Considering the limited resources avalilable on OSEE/ORMF I would go
for a server/DB solution and try to include a small footstep server/DB
as a simple (and limited?) single user solution.


Achim
--
Achim Lörke

Eclipse-Stammtisch in the Braunschweig, Germany area:
http://www.bredex.de/de/career/eclipse.html


Achim Lörke

Jubula Funtional Testing Tool:http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/jubula
Eclipse-Stammtisch Braunschweig: http://www.bredex.de/de/news/eclipse.html
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #563487 is a reply to message #10301] Tue, 22 April 2008 18:17 Go to previous message
Donald Dunne is currently offline Donald Dunne
Messages: 191
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
>
> Considering the limited resources avalilable on OSEE/ORMF I would go
> for a server/DB solution and try to include a small footstep server/DB
> as a simple (and limited?) single user solution.
>
>
> Achim

Great idea. We were thinking of providing 3 types of downloads from the
OSEE project site and would be very interested in any thoughts
recommendations.

One would be for the simplest of uses where we would bundle an open
source database, like Derby, with the release. This would allow the
user or small team of users to test out OSEE or use it for some simple
projects. One thing to keep in mind would be the difficulty of
providing a one-size-fits-all solution. We would need to provide an
easy way for the user to specify their requirements hierarchy in order
to configure OSEE correctly. This is where we like ORMF's solution of
providing schema's describing the models that could drive the
configuration and, as in ORMF, the creation of the specific editors
needed/desired by the user.

The second would be an OSEE release with database and demo data. This
would be our demonstration model that users could download and take for
a test drive. It would contain data and be tied tightly to screencasts
that describe the features of OSEE. We currently have a version of this
bundled with the PostgreSQL database (available via email, if
interested). Unfortunately, we can not provide it through the
Eclipse.org/osee site due to PostgreSQL's pedigree. Due to this, we are
feverishly trying to get Derby working for not only this solution, but
the previous one.

The third would be the deployment to a large and/or multi-site project
that would include all the steps necessary to configure and setup.
Although the simplest case could certainly work as a file-based system
and there are even solutions that exist that do this, our experience was
with 300+ users accessing artifact data in parallel. This is where re
ran into problems.
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #563511 is a reply to message #10267] Tue, 22 April 2008 18:26 Go to previous message
Donald Dunne is currently offline Donald Dunne
Messages: 191
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Ben Garbers wrote:
> input requirements information. If they are dependent on OSEE in
> communicating with the plugin they will have to set this up which for
> novice users could take some time. Individuals who do requirements
> usually are not database setup savvy.

Please see the more detailed post to Achim Lorke's response that lays
out different approaches to deployment depending on the needs of the user.

We definitely agree that there is a great need for a simple requirements
solution. One of the deployments we planned to offer, and are certainly
interested in comments, is an OSEE release bundled with a small
footprint open source database like Derby. This would provide the basic
capabilities without the large overhead of the server-side setup.

We currently have one bundled with PostgreSQL, but are unable to provide
it from the eclipse.org site due to it's pedigree (it is available via
email if interested). It is a single executable jar that installs OSEE,
PostgreSQL and populates the database with demo data. The user simply
clicks the short-cut and is off. I would think the same solution could
be provided for the simplest of deployments as long as we can figure out
a good way to allow the user to configure/customize the installation to
fit their requirements (or other artifact capture) needs.
Re: OSEE Setup Too Hard for Customers Who Do Requirements??? [message #563535 is a reply to message #10400] Wed, 23 April 2008 00:34 Go to previous message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
On 2008-04-22 23:26:27 +0100, Don Dunne <donald.g.dunne@boeing.com> said:

> Ben Garbers wrote:
>> input requirements information. If they are dependent on OSEE in
>> communicating with the plugin they will have to set this up which for
>> novice users could take some time. Individuals who do requirements
>> usually are not database setup savvy.
>
> Please see the more detailed post to Achim Lorke's response that lays
> out different approaches to deployment depending on the needs of the
> user.
>
> We definitely agree that there is a great need for a simple
> requirements solution. One of the deployments we planned to offer, and
> are certainly interested in comments, is an OSEE release bundled with a
> small footprint open source database like Derby. This would provide
> the basic capabilities without the large overhead of the server-side
> setup.
>
> We currently have one bundled with PostgreSQL, but are unable to
> provide it from the eclipse.org site due to it's pedigree (it is
> available via email if interested). It is a single executable jar that
> installs OSEE, PostgreSQL and populates the database with demo data.
> The user simply clicks the short-cut and is off. I would think the
> same solution could be provided for the simplest of deployments as long
> as we can figure out a good way to allow the user to
> configure/customize the installation to fit their requirements (or
> other artifact capture) needs.

For those who are not quite familiar with Derby, I would like to note a
couple of the key "features" of it.
1. It is a very low foot print database
2. It takes little (or no) management by the user, i.e. a DB Admin is
not necessary
3. It can be ran in embedded mode or server mode. In both cases its
life cycle can be managed by the application or application server, so
no extra overhead is put onto the user.
4. It is robust.
5. IBM will support it commercially if the end user desires the
security blanket.

We have been using for a few years with Useme/ORMF with next no problems.

Joel
--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LQPeBiQeceuCw [message #564035 is a reply to message #10433] Tue, 08 July 2008 07:16 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: topgvl.hcseek.com

JURQer <a href="http://ucswaouibvmi.com/">ucswaouibvmi</a>,
pdltfnzyampf,
ulmerbhqaouo[/link],
http://dhngasmcqttz.com/
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