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A simple scenario of use [message #9968] Wed, 12 January 2005 09:14 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: azazelking.hotmail.com

Hello all,

After researching and reading tons of license pages, I would really
appreciate if someone would offer help and enlighten me on the following
scenario:

1. I run a software house.
2. I downloaded and installed the Eclipse Platform.
3. Using the Elipse Platform, I wrote HelloWorld.java, and compiled it to
HelloWorld.class which prints "Hello World" ;)
4. I sold this HelloWorld.class to ACME Company for $0.02 as a deliverable
of fulfilling a mission-critical system contract.

Is it a legal use of the Eclipse Platform since I paid nothing for it but
have a monetary gain by using it? Knowning that it at least initially
costed IBM $40mil and later a lot of efforts from developers?

What really confuses me is that the licenses (CPL, EPL) seem to address
plug-in development, or using the source code from Eclipse Project (like
imports, then leads to the argument of "derivative works"... etc). What I
wanted to know is plain and simple as in the above scenario.

Thank you in advance!

Bests,
Guido
Re: A simple scenario of use [message #10680 is a reply to message #9968] Fri, 14 January 2005 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: azazelking.hotmail.com

My apologies if this question is too simple to answer, but I would really
appreciate if someone would shed some light on it. Please, just a simple
yes or no.

Thank you.

Guido wrote:

> Hello all,

> After researching and reading tons of license pages, I would really
> appreciate if someone would offer help and enlighten me on the following
> scenario:

> 1. I run a software house.
> 2. I downloaded and installed the Eclipse Platform.
> 3. Using the Elipse Platform, I wrote HelloWorld.java, and compiled it to
> HelloWorld.class which prints "Hello World" ;)
> 4. I sold this HelloWorld.class to ACME Company for $0.02 as a deliverable
> of fulfilling a mission-critical system contract.

> Is it a legal use of the Eclipse Platform since I paid nothing for it but
> have a monetary gain by using it? Knowning that it at least initially
> costed IBM $40mil and later a lot of efforts from developers?

> What really confuses me is that the licenses (CPL, EPL) seem to address
> plug-in development, or using the source code from Eclipse Project (like
> imports, then leads to the argument of "derivative works"... etc). What I
> wanted to know is plain and simple as in the above scenario.

> Thank you in advance!

> Bests,
> Guido
Re: A simple scenario of use [message #11093 is a reply to message #9968] Fri, 14 January 2005 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: eclipse-news.forritan.net

Disclaimer: IANAL and all that... :-)

Simple answer: YES

A little longer answer: YES, and you can do more than that - You can
include any part of the eclipse platform in your program and sell that
as well...

See:
news://news.eclipse.org:119/cq9rrr$ccf$1@www.eclipse.org
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=206&gro up=eclipse.foundation

And anyone - lawyer or not: Please correct me if I'm wrong in my
assumptions...

Regards,
Eyðun


Guido wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> After researching and reading tons of license pages, I would really
> appreciate if someone would offer help and enlighten me on the following
> scenario:
>
> 1. I run a software house.
> 2. I downloaded and installed the Eclipse Platform.
> 3. Using the Elipse Platform, I wrote HelloWorld.java, and compiled it
> to HelloWorld.class which prints "Hello World" ;)
> 4. I sold this HelloWorld.class to ACME Company for $0.02 as a
> deliverable of fulfilling a mission-critical system contract.
>
> Is it a legal use of the Eclipse Platform since I paid nothing for it
> but have a monetary gain by using it? Knowning that it at least
> initially costed IBM $40mil and later a lot of efforts from developers?
>
> What really confuses me is that the licenses (CPL, EPL) seem to address
> plug-in development, or using the source code from Eclipse Project (like
> imports, then leads to the argument of "derivative works"... etc). What
> I wanted to know is plain and simple as in the above scenario.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Bests,
> Guido
>
>
Re: A simple scenario of use [message #11465 is a reply to message #11093] Sun, 16 January 2005 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: azazelking.hotmail.com

Eyðun,

Thank you so much for your answer and link.

If the case in the link is ok, then the one I described should be ok too.
The scenario I described doesn't even include Eclipse's jars.

Even though businesses wanted to use Eclipse, there is no where and no one
to purchase from. How would it be possible then, for business to use
Eclipse? If business use is excluded from the Eclipse license (which I do
not believe so), it will be very sad.

Best Regards,
Guido

Eyðun Nielsen wrote:

> Disclaimer: IANAL and all that... :-)

> Simple answer: YES

> A little longer answer: YES, and you can do more than that - You can
> include any part of the eclipse platform in your program and sell that
> as well...

> See:
> news://news.eclipse.org:119/cq9rrr$ccf$1@www.eclipse.org
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=206&gro up=eclipse.foundation

> And anyone - lawyer or not: Please correct me if I'm wrong in my
> assumptions...

> Regards,
> Eyðun


> Guido wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> After researching and reading tons of license pages, I would really
>> appreciate if someone would offer help and enlighten me on the following
>> scenario:
>>
>> 1. I run a software house.
>> 2. I downloaded and installed the Eclipse Platform.
>> 3. Using the Elipse Platform, I wrote HelloWorld.java, and compiled it
>> to HelloWorld.class which prints "Hello World" ;)
>> 4. I sold this HelloWorld.class to ACME Company for $0.02 as a
>> deliverable of fulfilling a mission-critical system contract.
>>
>> Is it a legal use of the Eclipse Platform since I paid nothing for it
>> but have a monetary gain by using it? Knowning that it at least
>> initially costed IBM $40mil and later a lot of efforts from developers?
>>
>> What really confuses me is that the licenses (CPL, EPL) seem to address
>> plug-in development, or using the source code from Eclipse Project (like
>> imports, then leads to the argument of "derivative works"... etc). What
>> I wanted to know is plain and simple as in the above scenario.
>>
>> Thank you in advance!
>>
>> Bests,
>> Guido
>>
>>
Re: A simple scenario of use [message #11539 is a reply to message #11465] Sun, 16 January 2005 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Milinkovich is currently offline Mike Milinkovich
Messages: 258
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Businesses are *not* prohibited from using Eclipse. Have you read the
license FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/legal/eplfaq.html

Many companies (IBM, SAP, Serena, Genuitec and on and on) not only use
Eclipse in their development, they ship it with their products. Our
licensing is about as commercial-friendly as we can make it.

In terms of "purchasing Eclipse", you can download it from our site for
free. That is how most companies use it. Alternatively it comes bundled with
many products. There is also a distribution from Innoopract available. So
there are plenty of different channels you can use to acquire it.

I hope this helps.

"Guido" <azazelking@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cse1je$llv$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Ey
Re: A simple scenario of use [message #11647 is a reply to message #11539] Mon, 17 January 2005 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: azazelking.hotmail.com

Mike,

Thank you very much for your answer. My fuds are gone now. Thank you.

Best Regards,
Guido

Mike Milinkovich wrote:


> Businesses are *not* prohibited from using Eclipse. Have you read the
> license FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/legal/eplfaq.html

> Many companies (IBM, SAP, Serena, Genuitec and on and on) not only use
> Eclipse in their development, they ship it with their products. Our
> licensing is about as commercial-friendly as we can make it.

> In terms of "purchasing Eclipse", you can download it from our site for
> free. That is how most companies use it. Alternatively it comes bundled with
> many products. There is also a distribution from Innoopract available. So
> there are plenty of different channels you can use to acquire it.

> I hope this helps.

> "Guido" <azazelking@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cse1je$llv$1@www.eclipse.org...
>> Eyðun,
>>
>> Thank you so much for your answer and link.
>>
>> If the case in the link is ok, then the one I described should be ok too.
>> The scenario I described doesn't even include Eclipse's jars.
>>
>> Even though businesses wanted to use Eclipse, there is no where and no one
>> to purchase from. How would it be possible then, for business to use
>> Eclipse? If business use is excluded from the Eclipse license (which I do
>> not believe so), it will be very sad.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Guido
>>
>> Eyðun Nielsen wrote:
>>
>>> Disclaimer: IANAL and all that... :-)
>>
>>> Simple answer: YES
>>
>>> A little longer answer: YES, and you can do more than that - You can
>>> include any part of the eclipse platform in your program and sell that as
>>> well...
>>
>>> See:
>>> news://news.eclipse.org:119/cq9rrr$ccf$1@www.eclipse.org
>>>
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=206&gro up=eclipse.foundation
>>
>>> And anyone - lawyer or not: Please correct me if I'm wrong in my
>>> assumptions...
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eyðun
>>
>>
>>> Guido wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> After researching and reading tons of license pages, I would really
>>>> appreciate if someone would offer help and enlighten me on the following
>>>> scenario:
>>>>
>>>> 1. I run a software house.
>>>> 2. I downloaded and installed the Eclipse Platform.
>>>> 3. Using the Elipse Platform, I wrote HelloWorld.java, and compiled it
>>>> to HelloWorld.class which prints "Hello World" ;)
>>>> 4. I sold this HelloWorld.class to ACME Company for $0.02 as a
>>>> deliverable of fulfilling a mission-critical system contract.
>>>>
>>>> Is it a legal use of the Eclipse Platform since I paid nothing for it
>>>> but have a monetary gain by using it? Knowning that it at least
>>>> initially costed IBM $40mil and later a lot of efforts from developers?
>>>>
>>>> What really confuses me is that the licenses (CPL, EPL) seem to address
>>>> plug-in development, or using the source code from Eclipse Project (like
>>>> imports, then leads to the argument of "derivative works"... etc). What
>>>> I wanted to know is plain and simple as in the above scenario.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you in advance!
>>>>
>>>> Bests,
>>>> Guido
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: A simple scenario of use [message #12206 is a reply to message #11465] Wed, 19 January 2005 04:39 Go to previous message
Slamlander is currently offline Slamlander
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
As near as I can tell, and IANAL:

The only problem with business use is the same one that all OSS projects
share. There is no relief from derived liabilities and no contingent
liabilities.

Example:
1 You use OSS software to build a large accounting system for a publicly
held corp.
2 The software, regardless of your best efforts, grows a bug that violates
the law or makes it appear as if the corp is violating the law (creating an
MCI/WorldCom issue).
3 The SEC prosecutes the corp and in thee investigation the bug comes to
light. The corp then sues you for the contingent liabilities resulting from
the bug.
4 You would have to claim the liabilities under your Errors and Omissions
Insurance (In the US, working as a business, you have to be covered by such
insurance).

The problem is this, if the OSS project were to have been a commercial
product then your insurance company would past some or all of the costs down
to the manufacturer. This is, thus far, a standard product liability claims
chain and it's one of the reasons that companies, like IBM, keep lawyers on
retainer and large sums of cash in the legal war chest. It's also one of the
reasons for recent calls for tort reform.

However, since no one really "owns" an OSS product and most OSS projects
have various forms of "hold harmless" in their licenses, it's impossible for
the insurance company to recover those liabilities, from the OSS project.
You, in fact, have become the manufacturer, as far as the legal-beagles are
concerned.

It's no problem, provided that you are adequately insured. If you are an
employee then your management only needs to concern itself if you're company
is recommending OSS to a third-party. Always remember that software, OSS or
otherwise, that you are recommending or delivering to a customer is
implicitly certified by you as being correct. If it is not then, if you
cannot pass on the liabilities, you are covering the liabilities yourself.

Absent a customer, if the OSS package breaks then you own all the pieces and
have no recourse to any recovery.

HTH

--
--
E X Q U I S I T U S
Neuchatel, CH
--


"Guido" <azazelking@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cse1je$llv$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Ey
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