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Manual [message #766042] Thu, 15 December 2011 06:06 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Though I've been using eclipse for some time, I find it necessary to
read a new users manual, as I have done in the past for other software.
There are always points you have missed - or you have not imagined that
they existed - that you come across reading a good manual.

Though I haven't read a "For Dummies" book for probably a decade and I
had thought I have outgrown them, I checked at Amazon.com but only to
find out that it is out of print, though there is an electronic version.
Any opinions on this?

I checked the eclipse website resources, but I only found a long list
without any comments.

What manuals do people here found useful? I ask for a users manual, not
an encyclopaedia, please...

emf

--
It ain't THAT, babe! - A radical reinterpretation
https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/bd/itaintmebabe.html
Re: Manual [message #766340 is a reply to message #766042] Thu, 15 December 2011 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell Bateman
Messages: 3194
Registered: July 2009
Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 14-Dec-11 23:06, Eustace wrote:
> Though I've been using eclipse for some time, I find it necessary to
> read a new users manual, as I have done in the past for other software.
> There are always points you have missed - or you have not imagined that
> they existed - that you come across reading a good manual.
>
> Though I haven't read a "For Dummies" book for probably a decade and I
> had thought I have outgrown them, I checked at Amazon.com but only to
> find out that it is out of print, though there is an electronic version.
> Any opinions on this?
>
> I checked the eclipse website resources, but I only found a long list
> without any comments.
>
> What manuals do people here found useful? I ask for a users manual, not
> an encyclopaedia, please...
>
> emf

Eclipse for Dummies was written for Europa, as I recall--I do have a
copy at home, and is grossly out of date. I have still other
publications on Eclipse or on working with Eclipse (one on WTP, for
instance) and they all have suffered the same fate. The cadence of
Eclipse releases is such that it's unlikely paper can be printed fast
enough and sell enough copies to justify the effort (my opinion,
obviously). When I bought those books, I was emerging out of a rather
stodgy, 25-year C/assembly mindset and thought they would be helpful.
Today, I wouldn't personally consider purchasing such paper, at least
not with the usual $40-$50 sticker on it.

Eclipse is not alone in this situation, but it's probably one of the
best examples of what's happening to "documentation" in our industry.

What's really useful is the Eclipse forums for pertinent, timely
answers, plus Google which will find you all sorts of tutorials,
articles and other helps. The hardest part is sorting through all of the
latter and recognizing when something is said that no longer holds true
or has become irrelevant. In this, keeping two or three Eclipse forums
present in my life (via NNTP) is what keeps me abreast of what's current
and what's not.

Eclipse is a living, evolving IDE rather than mere technology, so it's
going to be a lot more organic than a quick trip to a web site to
download a JAR and a one-time wink at a short doc.

(Hope this helps--sorry for the encyclopedia.)
Re: Manual [message #767478 is a reply to message #766042] Sun, 18 December 2011 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
In article <jcc2nu$76i$1@news.eclipse.org>, Eustace <emfril@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Though I've been using eclipse for some time, I find it necessary to
> read a new users manual, as I have done in the past for other software.
> There are always points you have missed - or you have not imagined that
> they existed - that you come across reading a good manual.
>
> Though I haven't read a "For Dummies" book for probably a decade and I
> had thought I have outgrown them, I checked at Amazon.com but only to
> find out that it is out of print, though there is an electronic version.
> Any opinions on this?
>
> I checked the eclipse website resources, but I only found a long list
> without any comments.
>
> What manuals do people here found useful? I ask for a users manual, not
> an encyclopaedia, please...
>
I find the Help documents installed with Eclipse to be much more useful
than books (though part of me wants to shout "heresy!" at that
statement). At least on the Mac, if you select Help -> Help Contents
you will launch the browser of your choice, with a list of Good Stuff.

--
Chris Henrich
http://www.mathinteract.com
"It's our supreme ability and willingness to screw up that is the secret of our
success."
-- R. X. Cringely
Re: Manual [message #767875 is a reply to message #766340] Mon, 19 December 2011 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
On 2011-12-15 10:20 Russell Bateman wrote:
> On 14-Dec-11 23:06, Eustace wrote:
>> Though I've been using eclipse for some time, I find it necessary to
>> read a new users manual, as I have done in the past for other software.
>> There are always points you have missed - or you have not imagined that
>> they existed - that you come across reading a good manual.
>>
>> Though I haven't read a "For Dummies" book for probably a decade and I
>> had thought I have outgrown them, I checked at Amazon.com but only to
>> find out that it is out of print, though there is an electronic version.
>> Any opinions on this?
>>
>> I checked the eclipse website resources, but I only found a long list
>> without any comments.
>>
>> What manuals do people here found useful? I ask for a users manual, not
>> an encyclopaedia, please...
>>
>> emf
>
> Eclipse for Dummies was written for Europa, as I recall--I do have a
> copy at home, and is grossly out of date. I have still other
> publications on Eclipse or on working with Eclipse (one on WTP, for
> instance) and they all have suffered the same fate. The cadence of
> Eclipse releases is such that it's unlikely paper can be printed fast
> enough and sell enough copies to justify the effort (my opinion,
> obviously). When I bought those books, I was emerging out of a rather
> stodgy, 25-year C/assembly mindset and thought they would be helpful.
> Today, I wouldn't personally consider purchasing such paper, at least
> not with the usual $40-$50 sticker on it.
>
> Eclipse is not alone in this situation, but it's probably one of the
> best examples of what's happening to "documentation" in our industry.
>
> What's really useful is the Eclipse forums for pertinent, timely
> answers, plus Google which will find you all sorts of tutorials,
> articles and other helps. The hardest part is sorting through all of the
> latter and recognizing when something is said that no longer holds true
> or has become irrelevant. In this, keeping two or three Eclipse forums
> present in my life (via NNTP) is what keeps me abreast of what's current
> and what's not.
>
> Eclipse is a living, evolving IDE rather than mere technology, so it's
> going to be a lot more organic than a quick trip to a web site to
> download a JAR and a one-time wink at a short doc.
>
> (Hope this helps--sorry for the encyclopedia.)

Something in your reply did not seem right, and that feeling led me
finally to check and realize that though I had been checking for updates
button from time to time, and the reply always was that no updates *for
the currently installed features* were available to install, Eclipse has
moved from version 3.2 to 3.7! Now I realize that to get new versions I
had to check

(·) Search for new features to install

And now I find myself with the following dilemma:

a. should I postpone updating, get the Eclipse for Dummies (that should
be OK with 3.2), and update at a later time when I'll feel comfortable
that I have a good grasp with the 3.2 software, or

b. move to the latest version and look for another manual?

What are the main new features that have been added in the last 5 years?
How do these new features the programmer's experience with old ones? Has
the in-built Help manual improved since then? (The one in 3.2 is
useless; someone who does not already know the terms, can't move much
further than the first page.)

emf

--
It ain't THAT, babe! - A radical reinterpretation
https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/bd/itaintmebabe.html
Re: Manual [message #768116 is a reply to message #767875] Mon, 19 December 2011 16:01 Go to previous message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell Bateman
Messages: 3194
Registered: July 2009
Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 18-Dec-11 22:45, Eustace wrote:
> [snip]
> Something in your reply did not seem right, and that feeling led me
> finally to check and realize that though I had been checking for updates
> button from time to time, and the reply always was that no updates *for
> the currently installed features* were available to install, Eclipse has
> moved from version 3.2 to 3.7! Now I realize that to get new versions I
> had to check
>
> (·) Search for new features to install
>
> And now I find myself with the following dilemma:
>
> a. should I postpone updating, get the Eclipse for Dummies (that should
> be OK with 3.2), and update at a later time when I'll feel comfortable
> that I have a good grasp with the 3.2 software, or
>
> b. move to the latest version and look for another manual?
>
> What are the main new features that have been added in the last 5 years?
> How do these new features the programmer's experience with old ones? Has
> the in-built Help manual improved since then? (The one in 3.2 is
> useless; someone who does not already know the terms, can't move much
> further than the first page.)
>
> emf

You should use either Indigo or Helios. There are new features added
over the years--certainly. However, the real reasons are

a) maturity: the interfaces are more polished and bugs have been fixed.

b) you can come to the Eclipse forums and people know what you're
talking about.
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