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[NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #7583] Fri, 26 November 2004 09:40 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

Please open access to newsgroup archives.

This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
search-engines [thus content appears as search result e.g. within
google] etc.

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=79556#c0

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please DON'T open access to newsgroup archives [message #7604 is a reply to message #7583] Fri, 26 November 2004 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Konrad Kolosowski is currently offline Konrad Kolosowski
Messages: 243
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Like many people, I have used my real e-mail address when posting, under
assumption the newsgroups are password protected.
I do not want to see the rules changed now, especially for the existing
groups.

"ilias" <ilias@lazaridis.com> wrote in message
news:co7f89$it6$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Please open access to newsgroup archives.
>
> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
> search-engines [thus content appears as search result e.g. within
> google] etc.
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=79556#c0
>
> .
>
> --
> http://lazaridis.com
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #7626 is a reply to message #7583] Fri, 26 November 2004 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse Webmaster
Messages: 443915
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
As discussed in the bugzilla issue:

Please note the bugzilla issue is closed, and any further discussion
should be done here.

====

The eclipse website provides several forum archives [mailinglists,
newsgroups].

It is a common practice within open-source projects, to have those
archives open
to the public (without the need of a registration).

This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
search-engines [thus
content appears as search reslut e.g. within google] etc.

Please remove the read-access password-protection to the archives and
html-nntp-forums (which serve as an archive, too) on eclipse.org.

-

Example for the eclipse forum archives:

html-forum archive, which has a convenient threaded view:
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=32944&g roup=eclipse.platform

same message within the mailing-list-style archive:
http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform/msg32 969.html

Both are not accessible without registration.


------- Additional Comment #1 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 12:29
-------

The reason behind the password protection is to prevent spambots from
retrieving
the e-mail address of the poster.

This tool:
http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform/msg32 969.html

conceals the identity fo the poster in an acceptable fashion, but do we
really
want to hide that information? As it is, the information is open and
public to
whomever wants to access it.



------- Additional Comment #2 From Konrad Kolosowski 2004-11-26 12:59
-------

I agree with the web master. I have used my real e-mail address, under
assumption the groups are password protected.
We cannot change the rules down the road. Otherwise I would request all my
post to be deleted.


------- Additional Comment #3 From ilias 2004-11-26 13:04 -------

Please have the gentleness to not "RESOLVE WONTFIX" reports thus early.

I'll comment on the comments to a later point.

Thank you


------- Additional Comment #4 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 15:25
-------

I am closing this issue, and I will be advising the EMO via the
eclipse.foundation newsgroup. The same userid/password is required to
read the
newsgroups, post articles and read the archives, and has been so for a long
time. The entire community has come to know this procedure and to rely
on it to
protect themselves from unwanted spam.
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #7669 is a reply to message #7626] Fri, 26 November 2004 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

WebMaster wrote:
> As discussed in the bugzilla issue:
>
> Please note the bugzilla issue is closed,


If the issue is closed, why should anyone discuss about the issue?

I've reopened the issue - simply because it _is_ an open issue.

> and any further discussion should be done here.

[discussing the issue on this media is my personal decision, which was
in no way influenced by the plea above.]

I will make the further discussion within this group (and post only a
summary-comment to the issue), to enable the final evaluation and decision.

> The eclipse website provides several forum archives [mailinglists,
> newsgroups].
>
> It is a common practice within open-source projects, to have those
> archives open
> to the public (without the need of a registration).
>
> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
> search-engines [thus
> content appears as search reslut e.g. within google] etc.
>
> Please remove the read-access password-protection to the archives and
> html-nntp-forums (which serve as an archive, too) on eclipse.org.

GOALS:
- Simplify Referencing
- Simplify Cross Foundation Collaboration
- Enable archival within search engines etc. (e.g. google)
- current eclipse users can search additionally within google
- newcomers can hit on eclipse due to a technical google-search
- Open Source - Open Resource

I think that goals are worthfull.

COUNTERS:

> ------- Additional Comment #1 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 12:29
>
> The reason behind the password protection is to prevent spambots from
> retrieving the e-mail address of the poster.
[...]

=> { read-password prevents emails from spambot-retrieval }

valid.

> ------- Additional Comment #2 From Konrad Kolosowski 2004-11-26 12:59
> -------
>
> I agree with the web master. I have used my real e-mail address, under
> assumption the groups are password protected.

=> { read-password prevents emails from spambot-retrieval }

valid.

=> { existing password protection was reason to use real email }

valid.

> We cannot change the rules down the road.

=> { [critical] rules cannot be changed down the road }

valid.

> Otherwise I would request all my post to be deleted.

=> { requesting own posts to be deleted }

valid [the _request_ itself]

-

[...] - (wontfix/reopen comments)

-

The simple conclusion is:

To achieve the above mentioned GOALS, an email protection mechanism must
be provided, which does not rely on an read-access-limitation.

Something like this one:

http://www.mail-archive.com/announcements@jakarta.apache.org /msg00267.html

It is important, that the eclipse foundation reaches the openness of
other major open-source projects.

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #7710 is a reply to message #7669] Wed, 01 December 2004 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

ilias wrote:
[...]
> GOALS:
> - Simplify Referencing
> - Simplify Cross Foundation Collaboration
> - Enable archival within search engines etc. (e.g. google)
> - current eclipse users can search additionally within google
> - newcomers can hit on eclipse due to a technical google-search
> - Open Source - Open Resource
>
> I think that goals are worthfull.
>
> COUNTERS:
[...]

> => { read-password prevents emails from spambot-retrieval }
> => { existing password protection was reason to use real email }
> => { [critical] rules cannot be changed down the road }
[...]

> The simple conclusion is:
>
> To achieve the above mentioned GOALS, an email protection mechanism must
> be provided, which does not rely on an read-access-limitation.

The simplest way would be to configure the existent software:

[At this point, I like to mention once more that those _very_ essential
resources are not publically available within a CVS, thus team-members
can contribute to their enhancement.]

-

Newsgroup html-gateway "newsportal", used as archive:

http://florian-amrhein.de/newsportal/doc

-

Mailinglist / Newsgroup archive

uses: MHonArc 2.5.0

a newer version is available:

http://www.mhonarc.org

SPAMCONTROL:

http://www.mhonarc.org/MHonArc/doc/resources/spammode.html

> Something like this one:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/announcements@jakarta.apache.org /msg00267.html
>
> It is important, that the eclipse foundation reaches the openness of
> other major open-source projects.

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #7875 is a reply to message #7626] Fri, 03 December 2004 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Genady Beryozkin is currently offline Genady Beryozkin
Messages: 410
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
While the mailing lists and newsgroup archives are protected to some
extent (like in the example, some addresses
still appear in the post, and somebody might attempt to collect them all
and sell them),
I'm really concerned about the bugzilla pages that are totally
unprotected. Email addresses in Bugzilla are available for
everybody to collect. Is there any solution to that?

Genady


WebMaster wrote:

> As discussed in the bugzilla issue:
>
> Please note the bugzilla issue is closed, and any further discussion
> should be done here.
>
> ====
>
> The eclipse website provides several forum archives [mailinglists,
> newsgroups].
>
> It is a common practice within open-source projects, to have those
> archives open
> to the public (without the need of a registration).
>
> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
> search-engines [thus
> content appears as search reslut e.g. within google] etc.
>
> Please remove the read-access password-protection to the archives and
> html-nntp-forums (which serve as an archive, too) on eclipse.org.
>
> -
>
> Example for the eclipse forum archives:
>
> html-forum archive, which has a convenient threaded view:
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=32944&g roup=eclipse.platform
>
>
> same message within the mailing-list-style archive:
> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform/msg32 969.html
>
> Both are not accessible without registration.
>
>
> ------- Additional Comment #1 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 12:29
> -------
>
> The reason behind the password protection is to prevent spambots from
> retrieving
> the e-mail address of the poster.
>
> This tool:
> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform/msg32 969.html
>
> conceals the identity fo the poster in an acceptable fashion, but do
> we really
> want to hide that information? As it is, the information is open and
> public to
> whomever wants to access it.
>
>
>
> ------- Additional Comment #2 From Konrad Kolosowski 2004-11-26 12:59
> -------
>
> I agree with the web master. I have used my real e-mail address, under
> assumption the groups are password protected.
> We cannot change the rules down the road. Otherwise I would request
> all my
> post to be deleted.
>
>
> ------- Additional Comment #3 From ilias 2004-11-26 13:04 -------
>
> Please have the gentleness to not "RESOLVE WONTFIX" reports thus early.
>
> I'll comment on the comments to a later point.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> ------- Additional Comment #4 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 15:25
> -------
>
> I am closing this issue, and I will be advising the EMO via the
> eclipse.foundation newsgroup. The same userid/password is required to
> read the
> newsgroups, post articles and read the archives, and has been so for a
> long
> time. The entire community has come to know this procedure and to
> rely on it to
> protect themselves from unwanted spam.
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #8055 is a reply to message #7875] Sat, 11 December 2004 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Genady Beryozkin is currently offline Genady Beryozkin
Messages: 410
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
In fact, bugzilla pages are cached by google.

Genady Beryozkin
http://www.genady.net/



Genady wrote:

> While the mailing lists and newsgroup archives are protected to some
> extent (like in the example, some addresses
> still appear in the post, and somebody might attempt to collect them
> all and sell them),
> I'm really concerned about the bugzilla pages that are totally
> unprotected. Email addresses in Bugzilla are available for
> everybody to collect. Is there any solution to that?
>
> Genady
>
>
> WebMaster wrote:
>
>> As discussed in the bugzilla issue:
>>
>> Please note the bugzilla issue is closed, and any further discussion
>> should be done here.
>>
>> ====
>>
>> The eclipse website provides several forum archives [mailinglists,
>> newsgroups].
>>
>> It is a common practice within open-source projects, to have those
>> archives open
>> to the public (without the need of a registration).
>>
>> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
>> search-engines [thus
>> content appears as search reslut e.g. within google] etc.
>>
>> Please remove the read-access password-protection to the archives and
>> html-nntp-forums (which serve as an archive, too) on eclipse.org.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Example for the eclipse forum archives:
>>
>> html-forum archive, which has a convenient threaded view:
>> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=32944&g roup=eclipse.platform
>>
>>
>> same message within the mailing-list-style archive:
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform/msg32 969.html
>>
>> Both are not accessible without registration.
>>
>>
>> ------- Additional Comment #1 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 12:29
>> -------
>>
>> The reason behind the password protection is to prevent spambots from
>> retrieving
>> the e-mail address of the poster.
>>
>> This tool:
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform/msg32 969.html
>>
>> conceals the identity fo the poster in an acceptable fashion, but do
>> we really
>> want to hide that information? As it is, the information is open and
>> public to
>> whomever wants to access it.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------- Additional Comment #2 From Konrad Kolosowski 2004-11-26 12:59
>> -------
>>
>> I agree with the web master. I have used my real e-mail address, under
>> assumption the groups are password protected.
>> We cannot change the rules down the road. Otherwise I would request
>> all my
>> post to be deleted.
>>
>>
>> ------- Additional Comment #3 From ilias 2004-11-26 13:04 -------
>>
>> Please have the gentleness to not "RESOLVE WONTFIX" reports thus early.
>>
>> I'll comment on the comments to a later point.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>> ------- Additional Comment #4 From Eclipse Webmaster 2004-11-26 15:25
>> -------
>>
>> I am closing this issue, and I will be advising the EMO via the
>> eclipse.foundation newsgroup. The same userid/password is required
>> to read the
>> newsgroups, post articles and read the archives, and has been so for
>> a long
>> time. The entire community has come to know this procedure and to
>> rely on it to
>> protect themselves from unwanted spam.
>
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #8086 is a reply to message #8055] Sun, 12 December 2004 08:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

Genady wrote:
[moved down]
>
> Genady wrote:
>
>> While the mailing lists and newsgroup archives are protected to some
>> extent (like in the example, some addresses
>> still appear in the post, and somebody might attempt to collect them
>> all and sell them),
>> I'm really concerned about the bugzilla pages that are totally
>> unprotected. Email addresses in Bugzilla are available for
>> everybody to collect. Is there any solution to that?
> In fact, bugzilla pages are cached by google.
[...]

There is nothing special in having public project conversation archived
within google and others.

And this is very good so, cause people searching for solutions will hit
at least on the eclipse bug-tracking system.


-

The solution to avoid publicity of open-source-project conversation is
not writing it (as public conversation is by it's nature... public).

If you are afraid about all this, you can:
- open a new Issue within Bugzilla to try to change something
- stop writing within public resources.
- switch to a closed resource project.

[I've answered to the issue you've raised, but please understand that
this is off-topic within this thread. Of course you are free to open a
new thread to discuss your Issue.]

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #8179 is a reply to message #7583] Tue, 14 December 2004 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: Lamont_Gilbert.rigidsoftware.com

ilias wrote:
> Please open access to newsgroup archives.
>
> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
> search-engines [thus content appears as search result e.g. within
> google] etc.
>
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=79556#c0
>
> .
>

Wouldn't that also open the newsgroup archives for email address
harvesting? The requirement to get a username and pwd is the only
reason I use my real email address with confidence on the newsgroups.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D

For a free Java interface to Freechess.org see
http://www.rigidsoftware.com/Chess/chess.html
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #8211 is a reply to message #8179] Tue, 14 December 2004 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

CL [dnoyeb] Gilbert wrote:
> ilias wrote:
>
>> Please open access to newsgroup archives.
>>
>> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
>> search-engines [thus content appears as search result e.g. within
>> google] etc.
>>
>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=79556#c0
>>
>> .
>>
>
> Wouldn't that also open the newsgroup archives for email address
> harvesting?

not directly [see below]

> The requirement to get a username and pwd is the only
> reason I use my real email address with confidence on the newsgroups.

your counter argument is valid.

But it's no reason to not open the resource.

[see my reply to WebMaster in this thread, 2004-11-26 ].

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #8240 is a reply to message #8211] Tue, 14 December 2004 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: Lamont_Gilbert.rigidsoftware.com

ilias wrote:
> CL [dnoyeb] Gilbert wrote:
>
>> ilias wrote:
>>
>>> Please open access to newsgroup archives.
>>>
>>> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
>>> search-engines [thus content appears as search result e.g. within
>>> google] etc.
>>>
>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=79556#c0
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>> Wouldn't that also open the newsgroup archives for email address
>> harvesting?
>
>
> not directly [see below]
>
>> The requirement to get a username and pwd is the only reason I use my
>> real email address with confidence on the newsgroups.
>
>
> your counter argument is valid.
>
> But it's no reason to not open the resource.
>

It is one reason to not open the resource. Perhaps you feel it is not a
strong enough reason. I feel that until there is a solution to deal
with that, it should not be opened. I'd be willing to abide by a vote
though.

I agree that the feature is HIGHLY desireable. Especially considering
the suckage that is Eclipse Help system searching.



--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D

For a free Java interface to Freechess.org see
http://www.rigidsoftware.com/Chess/chess.html
Re: [NEWSGROUP] - please open access to newsgroup archives [message #8272 is a reply to message #8240] Tue, 14 December 2004 13:56 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

CL Gilbert wrote:
> ilias wrote:
>
>> CL Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>> ilias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please open access to newsgroup archives.
>>>>
>>>> This simplifies referencing, collaboration, archival within
>>>> search-engines etc.
>>>>
>>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=79556#c0
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that also open the newsgroup archives for email address
>>> harvesting?
>>
>> not directly
>>
>>> The requirement to get a username and pwd is the only reason I use my
>>> real email address with confidence on the newsgroups.
>>
>> your counter argument is valid.
>>
>> But it's no reason to not open the resource.
>
> It is one reason to not open the resource. Perhaps you feel it is not a
> strong enough reason. I feel that until there is a solution to deal
> with that, it should not be opened. I'd be willing to abide by a vote
> though.
>
> I agree that the feature is HIGHLY desireable. Especially considering
> the suckage that is Eclipse Help system searching.

as stated:

>>[see my reply to WebMaster in this thread, 2004-11-26 ]
[/REQUOTED}

http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=170&gro up=eclipse.foundation

the followup message contains pointers to the used tools.

To open the archives, the webmaster (or any intrested party) can
investigate if and how the tools provide spam-protection:

http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=172&gro up=eclipse.foundation

..

--
http://lazaridis.com
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