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Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #71586] Sat, 06 May 2006 17:29 Go to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed Willink
Messages: 3844
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

Good idea

[Your news group link is to eclispe]

You miss some of the main problems. Eclipse just doesn't work at all well
on Linux.

I have used Eclipse extensively on Windows and needed to run some code under
Linux. I was very unimpressed.

Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing fits
on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use Eclipse so
I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable. Bugzilla 135738.

Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time. Eclipse
or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the time on Windows.
On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a selection to work. Hard to
reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't understand Linux.

Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux. Really
slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to Windows. Not
sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet; there's plenty to
sort out on Windows too.

I would not use Eclipse on Linux for choice.

These are all basic bug fixes that just require a little bit of Linux
usage by the development teams.

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #71760 is a reply to message #71586] Thu, 11 May 2006 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Bresie is currently offline Eric Bresie
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2009
Member
Another thing that I thought might be good to consider based on reading the
Proposal ( see http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/linux-distro/ ) was that
it seem to avoid any mention of the LSB (see
http://www.linuxstandardbase.org/en/LSB ) as a possible means of reaching
more linux users.
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #72404 is a reply to message #71586] Fri, 02 June 2006 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: belldj.ntlworldX.com

I've been using Eclipse in Linux since Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) came out. I
use Ubuntu amd64 at work and at home and have a few problems.

The fonts are an issue, especially when they are changed within Eclipse.
The xml editor test doesn't line up with the horizontal lines (can I
call it music rule? lol).

I've never managed to get TPTP 4.2 64-bit agent controller to work
correctly. It's still not released yet, so I shouldn't complain.

I think many of the problems with eclipse are with SWT. There are many
little niggles that make it not up to the windows version.

But all in all, developing on Linux is MUCH better than on Windows. Our
entire team uses Ubuntu Dapper now (since flight 6).

We are using Eclipse to develop an in house Manufacturing Execution
System which is n-tier using RCP/JBOSS/EJB3/Hibernate/LUCENE etc etc.
All this under Linux and tested on Windows, Linux and Mac OSX.

If you need any input, i'll be happy to help.

Oh all we need now is a Sun backed GPL'd Java, then we'd be set !!

Darren Bell.


Ed Willink wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good idea
>
> [Your news group link is to eclispe]
>
> You miss some of the main problems. Eclipse just doesn't work at all well
> on Linux.
>
> I have used Eclipse extensively on Windows and needed to run some code
> under
> Linux. I was very unimpressed.
>
> Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing
> fits
> on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use Eclipse so
> I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable. Bugzilla 135738.
>
> Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time. Eclipse
> or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the time on
> Windows.
> On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a selection to work.
> Hard to
> reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't understand Linux.
>
> Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux.
> Really
> slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to Windows. Not
> sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet; there's plenty to
> sort out on Windows too.
>
> I would not use Eclipse on Linux for choice.
>
> These are all basic bug fixes that just require a little bit of Linux
> usage by the development teams.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed Willink
>
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #72422 is a reply to message #72404] Fri, 02 June 2006 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Randy D. Smith is currently offline Randy D. Smith
Messages: 394
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Darren Bell wrote:
> I've never managed to get TPTP 4.2 64-bit agent controller to work
> correctly. It's still not released yet, so I shouldn't complain.

Oh boy... a live one on Linux 64-bit! What have you run into? What are
you trying to do? I ask because I'm on the other side, doing TPTP native
work on the AC, focusing on Intel architectures.

Have you filed bugzillas on what you've found?

What are you expecting in terms of 4.2 functionality? The reason I ask
is that the "new technology AC" should be there (as it should have been
already... but we can explore that topic based on your responses to the
above), but it is *not* scheduled to have "backward compatibility" (what
I affectionately call AC/BC) on Linux-EM64T for 4.2.

I'm cross-posting this to eclipse.tptp (and quoting your whole article
below) as this group is more relevant to following this particular part
of your response.
--
RDS




> I've been using Eclipse in Linux since Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) came out. I use Ubuntu amd64 at work and at home and have a few problems.
>
> The fonts are an issue, especially when they are changed within Eclipse. The xml editor test doesn't line up with the horizontal lines (can I call it music rule? lol).
>
> I've never managed to get TPTP 4.2 64-bit agent controller to work correctly. It's still not released yet, so I shouldn't complain.
>
> I think many of the problems with eclipse are with SWT. There are many little niggles that make it not up to the windows version.
>
> But all in all, developing on Linux is MUCH better than on Windows. Our entire team uses Ubuntu Dapper now (since flight 6).
>
> We are using Eclipse to develop an in house Manufacturing Execution System which is n-tier using RCP/JBOSS/EJB3/Hibernate/LUCENE etc etc. All this under Linux and tested on Windows, Linux and Mac OSX.
>
> If you need any input, i'll be happy to help.
>
> Oh all we need now is a Sun backed GPL'd Java, then we'd be set !!
>
> Darren Bell.
>
>
> Ed Willink wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Good idea
>>
>> [Your news group link is to eclispe]
>>
>> You miss some of the main problems. Eclipse just doesn't work at all well
>> on Linux.
>>
>> I have used Eclipse extensively on Windows and needed to run some code under
>> Linux. I was very unimpressed.
>>
>> Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing fits
>> on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use Eclipse so
>> I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable. Bugzilla 135738.
>>
>> Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time. Eclipse
>> or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the time on Windows.
>> On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a selection to work. Hard to
>> reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't understand Linux.
>>
>> Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux. Really
>> slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to Windows. Not
>> sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet; there's plenty to
>> sort out on Windows too.
>>
>> I would not use Eclipse on Linux for choice.
>>
>> These are all basic bug fixes that just require a little bit of Linux
>> usage by the development teams.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Ed Willink

--
RDS

Randy D. Smith randy (dot) d (dot) smith (at) intel (dot) com
Eclipse TPTP Committer, Platform Proj (data collection/agent controller)
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #72900 is a reply to message #71586] Thu, 29 June 2006 08:19 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: patrick.vogt.almana.ch

I might be missing some of the main points. I do not understand much about
linux not to speak about commercial linux packaging.

First I would like to give the eclipse community a big fat thank-you:
IMHO eclipse brought nice convenient programming to linux.

Still yes, there are some problems to address with running eclipse under
linux/unix.

I am running eclipse manly under gentoo, opensuse and xp, on all those
operating system I have to download and install eclipse myself.

When using the distributed version, my main problem is that the eclipse
update function fails since the package directory is owned by root (nothing
a chmod or chown could not fix...) but I even experienced packagers to
remove the functionality from the perspectives.
A handling of gaining administrative rights would be a nice feature for
eclipse and could solve this problem.
An other way to solve this problem would be to optimise packaging for
distributions. (Is it really a problem that source cannot easily be
access? how do distros handle things like acrobatreader, realplayer? [not
that I would like to compare those to eclipse in general, but they seem to
handle this problem...])

Ed Willink wrote:
> Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing
> fits on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use
> Eclipse so I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable.
> Bugzilla 135738.

hmmm... I always used half an hour (or more) to configure my IDE when I
first used it (starting with Delphi 3), it is an overhead you get paid back
later.
but yes, it would be nice if eclipse would fit better into the kde world.
(IMHO the gnome integration is better, probably due to using the gtk
toolkit.)

> Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time.
> Eclipse or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the
> time on Windows. On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a
> selection to work. Hard to reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't
> understand Linux.

really does it? only in eclipse?

> Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux.
> Really slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to
> Windows. Not sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet;
> there's plenty to sort out on Windows too.

Running eclipse on compairable linux and windows boxes (CPU > 2GHz, MEM >
0.5 GB) I cannot complain about one or the other...
.... and yes applications should always be faster!

I myself would be willing to give some time for my issues, but I am not sure
if I find time to modify eclipse, I probably could improve the gentoo
packaging quite easily.

Patrick
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #600305 is a reply to message #71586] Thu, 11 May 2006 13:20 Go to previous message
Eric Bresie is currently offline Eric Bresie
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2009
Member
Another thing that I thought might be good to consider based on reading the
Proposal ( see http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/linux-distro/ ) was that
it seem to avoid any mention of the LSB (see
http://www.linuxstandardbase.org/en/LSB ) as a possible means of reaching
more linux users.
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #600655 is a reply to message #71586] Fri, 02 June 2006 15:38 Go to previous message
Darren Bell is currently offline Darren Bell
Messages: 14
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I've been using Eclipse in Linux since Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) came out. I
use Ubuntu amd64 at work and at home and have a few problems.

The fonts are an issue, especially when they are changed within Eclipse.
The xml editor test doesn't line up with the horizontal lines (can I
call it music rule? lol).

I've never managed to get TPTP 4.2 64-bit agent controller to work
correctly. It's still not released yet, so I shouldn't complain.

I think many of the problems with eclipse are with SWT. There are many
little niggles that make it not up to the windows version.

But all in all, developing on Linux is MUCH better than on Windows. Our
entire team uses Ubuntu Dapper now (since flight 6).

We are using Eclipse to develop an in house Manufacturing Execution
System which is n-tier using RCP/JBOSS/EJB3/Hibernate/LUCENE etc etc.
All this under Linux and tested on Windows, Linux and Mac OSX.

If you need any input, i'll be happy to help.

Oh all we need now is a Sun backed GPL'd Java, then we'd be set !!

Darren Bell.


Ed Willink wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good idea
>
> [Your news group link is to eclispe]
>
> You miss some of the main problems. Eclipse just doesn't work at all well
> on Linux.
>
> I have used Eclipse extensively on Windows and needed to run some code
> under
> Linux. I was very unimpressed.
>
> Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing
> fits
> on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use Eclipse so
> I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable. Bugzilla 135738.
>
> Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time. Eclipse
> or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the time on
> Windows.
> On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a selection to work.
> Hard to
> reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't understand Linux.
>
> Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux.
> Really
> slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to Windows. Not
> sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet; there's plenty to
> sort out on Windows too.
>
> I would not use Eclipse on Linux for choice.
>
> These are all basic bug fixes that just require a little bit of Linux
> usage by the development teams.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed Willink
>
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #600660 is a reply to message #72404] Fri, 02 June 2006 16:45 Go to previous message
Randy D. Smith is currently offline Randy D. Smith
Messages: 394
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Darren Bell wrote:
> I've never managed to get TPTP 4.2 64-bit agent controller to work
> correctly. It's still not released yet, so I shouldn't complain.

Oh boy... a live one on Linux 64-bit! What have you run into? What are
you trying to do? I ask because I'm on the other side, doing TPTP native
work on the AC, focusing on Intel architectures.

Have you filed bugzillas on what you've found?

What are you expecting in terms of 4.2 functionality? The reason I ask
is that the "new technology AC" should be there (as it should have been
already... but we can explore that topic based on your responses to the
above), but it is *not* scheduled to have "backward compatibility" (what
I affectionately call AC/BC) on Linux-EM64T for 4.2.

I'm cross-posting this to eclipse.tptp (and quoting your whole article
below) as this group is more relevant to following this particular part
of your response.
--
RDS




> I've been using Eclipse in Linux since Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) came out. I use Ubuntu amd64 at work and at home and have a few problems.
>
> The fonts are an issue, especially when they are changed within Eclipse. The xml editor test doesn't line up with the horizontal lines (can I call it music rule? lol).
>
> I've never managed to get TPTP 4.2 64-bit agent controller to work correctly. It's still not released yet, so I shouldn't complain.
>
> I think many of the problems with eclipse are with SWT. There are many little niggles that make it not up to the windows version.
>
> But all in all, developing on Linux is MUCH better than on Windows. Our entire team uses Ubuntu Dapper now (since flight 6).
>
> We are using Eclipse to develop an in house Manufacturing Execution System which is n-tier using RCP/JBOSS/EJB3/Hibernate/LUCENE etc etc. All this under Linux and tested on Windows, Linux and Mac OSX.
>
> If you need any input, i'll be happy to help.
>
> Oh all we need now is a Sun backed GPL'd Java, then we'd be set !!
>
> Darren Bell.
>
>
> Ed Willink wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Good idea
>>
>> [Your news group link is to eclispe]
>>
>> You miss some of the main problems. Eclipse just doesn't work at all well
>> on Linux.
>>
>> I have used Eclipse extensively on Windows and needed to run some code under
>> Linux. I was very unimpressed.
>>
>> Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing fits
>> on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use Eclipse so
>> I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable. Bugzilla 135738.
>>
>> Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time. Eclipse
>> or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the time on Windows.
>> On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a selection to work. Hard to
>> reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't understand Linux.
>>
>> Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux. Really
>> slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to Windows. Not
>> sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet; there's plenty to
>> sort out on Windows too.
>>
>> I would not use Eclipse on Linux for choice.
>>
>> These are all basic bug fixes that just require a little bit of Linux
>> usage by the development teams.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Ed Willink

--
RDS

Randy D. Smith randy (dot) d (dot) smith (at) intel (dot) com
Eclipse TPTP Committer, Platform Proj (data collection/agent controller)
Re: Eclipse on Linux proposal [message #600856 is a reply to message #71586] Thu, 29 June 2006 08:19 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: patrick.vogt.almana.ch

I might be missing some of the main points. I do not understand much about
linux not to speak about commercial linux packaging.

First I would like to give the eclipse community a big fat thank-you:
IMHO eclipse brought nice convenient programming to linux.

Still yes, there are some problems to address with running eclipse under
linux/unix.

I am running eclipse manly under gentoo, opensuse and xp, on all those
operating system I have to download and install eclipse myself.

When using the distributed version, my main problem is that the eclipse
update function fails since the package directory is owned by root (nothing
a chmod or chown could not fix...) but I even experienced packagers to
remove the functionality from the perspectives.
A handling of gaining administrative rights would be a nice feature for
eclipse and could solve this problem.
An other way to solve this problem would be to optimise packaging for
distributions. (Is it really a problem that source cannot easily be
access? how do distros handle things like acrobatreader, realplayer? [not
that I would like to compare those to eclipse in general, but they seem to
handle this problem...])

Ed Willink wrote:
> Major problem 1: Linux is 10 pt based rather than 8 pt based so nothing
> fits on a Laptop screen. I don't expect to reconfigure Linux to use
> Eclipse so I'm stuffed. 50% of Eclipse dialog text is unadjustable.
> Bugzilla 135738.

hmmm... I always used half an hour (or more) to configure my IDE when I
first used it (starting with Delphi 3), it is an overhead you get paid back
later.
but yes, it would be nice if eclipse would fit better into the kde world.
(IMHO the gnome integration is better, probably due to using the gtk
toolkit.)

> Major problem 2: mouse operations just don't work much of the time.
> Eclipse or perhaps my fingers give strange behaviour less than 1% of the
> time on Windows. On Linux I sometimes need three attempts to get a
> selection to work. Hard to reproduce precisely, possibly I just don't
> understand Linux.

really does it? only in eclipse?

> Major problem 3: VE (recent Milestones) is almost unuseable on Linux.
> Really slow, and often temperamental. I move serious VE work back to
> Windows. Not sure whether VE is ready for this level of complaint yet;
> there's plenty to sort out on Windows too.

Running eclipse on compairable linux and windows boxes (CPU > 2GHz, MEM >
0.5 GB) I cannot complain about one or the other...
.... and yes applications should always be faster!

I myself would be willing to give some time for my issues, but I am not sure
if I find time to modify eclipse, I probably could improve the gentoo
packaging quite easily.

Patrick
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