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(no subject) [message #696103] Wed, 13 July 2011 09:20 Go to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
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As asked in the title: What is the place to give feedback about Eclipse
bugtracker?

Regards,
(no subject) [message #696140 is a reply to message #696103] Wed, 13 July 2011 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Megert is currently offline Dani MegertFriend
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On 13.07.2011 11:20, Mickael Istria wrote:
> As asked in the title: What is the place to give feedback about
> Eclipse bugtracker?
What you mean by "Eclipse bugtracker"? Bugzilla?

Dani
>
> Regards,
(no subject) [message #696146 is a reply to message #696140] Wed, 13 July 2011 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
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I mean more specifically this page:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi
and this page:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=GMP&format=guided
(or the same for any project, the &format=guided version).
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(no subject) [message #696153 is a reply to message #696146] Wed, 13 July 2011 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gunnar Wagenknecht is currently offline Gunnar WagenknechtFriend
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Am 13.07.2011 13:05, schrieb Mickael Istria:
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=GMP&format=guided
> (or the same for any project, the &format=guided version).

AFAIK that page is the default Bugzilla page. There are a few places to
ask questions mentioned at http://www.bugzilla.org/support/.

HTH,
Gunnar

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(no subject) [message #696262 is a reply to message #696103] Wed, 13 July 2011 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric RizzoFriend
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On 7/13/11 5:20 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
> As asked in the title: What is the place to give feedback about Eclipse
> bugtracker?
>
> Regards,

One option is to enter bug reports or enhancement requests into Bugzilla
itself. If you have a specific problem or idea, that's the most
effective way to get the webmasters' attentions.
But if you're more interested in discussion, then this might be the best
forum.

Eric
(no subject) [message #696279 is a reply to message #696262] Wed, 13 July 2011 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
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I am more interested in a discussion, then let's continue on this forum ;)

I don't think the new BugZilla pages facilitate and encourage the
reporting of a bug. Instead, it is now more difficult to find some
projects (athough some other ones are well visible, I think of SOA vs
GMP for example), so that it is more complicated for newcomers to report
a bug.
And the new report page does not encourage feature requests, the header
warning is maybe too aggressive telling people "if you are not sure of
what you're doing, don't do it". It is not very motivating, especially
for people who want to report the first bug or feature request. Some
fields are useless (buildId and steps to reproduce) when having a
feature request, whereas they are the 2 most important fields in case of
a bug.

The only advantages I see is the introduction of Steps to Reproduce and
buildId.

So the effects of this new organization may be:
* Increased quality of bug reports (good)
* Less feature requests (bad)
* Less bug reports by newcomers (bad)

Apparently that's the choice made by the Bugzilla project, but does it
fit well to Eclipse?

By the way, I think Bugzilla is now too 90's, but that's another debate ;)
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(no subject) [message #696371 is a reply to message #696279] Wed, 13 July 2011 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gunnar Wagenknecht is currently offline Gunnar WagenknechtFriend
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Hi Mickael,

Am 13.07.2011 17:49, schrieb Mickael Istria:
> I don't think the new BugZilla pages facilitate and encourage the
> reporting of a bug.

How did you reach that page? Is it now linked on the bugs.eclipse.org
main page? When I click on "file/enter a bug" I' always end up directly
at https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi (not the guided format).
I'm wondering if there is a switch to enable/disable this behavior.

-Gunnar

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(no subject) [message #698467 is a reply to message #696371] Tue, 19 July 2011 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric RizzoFriend
Messages: 2371
Registered: July 2009
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On 7/13/11 3:32 PM, Gunnar Wagenknecht wrote:
> Hi Mickael,
>
> Am 13.07.2011 17:49, schrieb Mickael Istria:
>> I don't think the new BugZilla pages facilitate and encourage the
>> reporting of a bug.
>
> How did you reach that page? Is it now linked on the bugs.eclipse.org
> main page? When I click on "file/enter a bug" I' always end up directly
> at https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi (not the guided format).
> I'm wondering if there is a switch to enable/disable this behavior.

IIRC, committers and other project members automatically bypass the
guided scenario and go directly to the full bug entry form. This was a
conscious decision by the webmasters (and presumably some PMC members)
because the full form is quite overwhelming.

Eric
(no subject) [message #698468 is a reply to message #696279] Tue, 19 July 2011 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric RizzoFriend
Messages: 2371
Registered: July 2009
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On 7/13/11 11:49 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
> I am more interested in a discussion, then let's continue on this forum ;)
>
> I don't think the new BugZilla pages facilitate and encourage the
> reporting of a bug. Instead, it is now more difficult to find some
> projects (athough some other ones are well visible, I think of SOA vs
> GMP for example), so that it is more complicated for newcomers to report
> a bug.
> And the new report page does not encourage feature requests, the header
> warning is maybe too aggressive telling people "if you are not sure of
> what you're doing, don't do it". It is not very motivating, especially
> for people who want to report the first bug or feature request. Some
> fields are useless (buildId and steps to reproduce) when having a
> feature request, whereas they are the 2 most important fields in case of
> a bug.
>
> The only advantages I see is the introduction of Steps to Reproduce and
> buildId.
>
> So the effects of this new organization may be:
> * Increased quality of bug reports (good)
> * Less feature requests (bad)
> * Less bug reports by newcomers (bad)
>
> Apparently that's the choice made by the Bugzilla project, but does it
> fit well to Eclipse?
>
> By the way, I think Bugzilla is now too 90's, but that's another debate ;)

I'm not so sure that reducing bug reports by newcomers is necessarily
"bad." I'm pretty sure the goal of the guided mode for Eclipse's
Bugzilla is to increase the signal-to-noise ratio, which means reducing
noise AND increasing signal. The increasing signal part comes from, as
you noted, increased quality of the bug reports that are entered.
Reducing the noise means a few different things, but one of them is
minimizing duplication (the entering of already-recorded bugs). Another
way to reduce noise is to minimize bug reports that are incoherent or
otherwise not practically addressable. I think a reasonable theory is
that newbies, if not guided properly, might tend to contribute to that
kind of noise.

As far as feature requests go, I've certainly entered my share of them
but never noticed a problem. But that may be because I don't get the
guided UI.

Eric

[Updated on: Thu, 21 July 2011 14:00]

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(no subject) [message #698469 is a reply to message #696279] Tue, 19 July 2011 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric RizzoFriend
Messages: 2371
Registered: July 2009
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On 7/13/11 11:49 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
> Apparently that's the choice made by the Bugzilla project, but does it
> fit well to Eclipse?
>
> By the way, I think Bugzilla is now too 90's, but that's another debate

Keep in mind that the Eclipse Foundation has a policy to only use
open-source software in their infrastructure. So, while a product like
JIRA (or another commercial product) might be superior in some ways to
Bugzilla, it's not an option because of that policy.
Now that I mention it, I don't really know the origin of that policy;
I'm curious as to the reasoning (other than cost, obviously).

Eric
(no subject) [message #698470 is a reply to message #698467] Tue, 19 July 2011 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
Messages: 770
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
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Ok, that explains why I get the guided page: I got my committer rights
removed because of employer change.

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(no subject) [message #699417 is a reply to message #698470] Thu, 21 July 2011 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric RizzoFriend
Messages: 2371
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On 7/19/11 10:21 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
> Ok, that explains why I get the guided page: I got my committer rights
> removed because of employer change.
>

What?! That's explicitly against the Eclipse philosophy. In fact, if
that was in fact the sole reason then some heads need to roll. That's
not the way Eclipse does things; it's the opposite of how Eclipse does
things.

Eric
(no subject) [message #699426 is a reply to message #699417] Thu, 21 July 2011 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael IstriaFriend
Messages: 770
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member
On 21/07/2011 16:03, Eric Rizzo wrote:
> On 7/19/11 10:21 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
>> Ok, that explains why I get the guided page: I got my committer rights
>> removed because of employer change.
>>
>
> What?! That's explicitly against the Eclipse philosophy. In fact, if
> that was in fact the sole reason then some heads need to roll. That's
> not the way Eclipse does things; it's the opposite of how Eclipse does
> things.
>
> Eric

Don't worry, I think I wasn't clear enough. The issue is more a "legal"
issue with paperworks that are not up-to-date.
The Foundation is doing it right ;) I keep in touch with Sharon on this
topic.

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(no subject) [message #699447 is a reply to message #699417] Thu, 21 July 2011 14:34 Go to previous message
Eclipse Webmaster is currently offline Eclipse WebmasterFriend
Messages: 512220
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On 07/21/2011 10:03 AM, Eric Rizzo wrote:
> What?! That's explicitly against the Eclipse philosophy. In fact, if
> that was in fact the sole reason then some heads need to roll. That's
> not the way Eclipse does things; it's the opposite of how Eclipse does
> things.

Like Mickael said, employer committer agreement are tied to an employer
(legally). When one changes an employer, they need a new employer
agreement. If the employer declines, the committer must sign an
individual committer agreement.

Regardless, without a valid agreement in place, commit rights must be
stripped temporarily.
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