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SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #67906] Mon, 12 September 2005 15:27 Go to next message
Mark Rogalski is currently offline Mark Rogalski
Messages: 201
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm sure
would be useful to developers. However, some of the function overlaps with
the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology project.
Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within SWT Mobile
Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile Extensions also has a
DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for Mascara).

How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
extension libraries that provide similar function under different
signatures, nor replicate work effort.

Mark
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #67930 is a reply to message #67906] Mon, 12 September 2005 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: veronika_irvine.oti.com

I also have some concerns about this proposed project.

There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things in the
SWT development plan:
- Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
- Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
(https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
- We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)

I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new project
with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would also prefer to
see a native solution wherever possible.

Veronika
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #67951 is a reply to message #67930] Tue, 13 September 2005 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
SWT, most specifically the expandable group.

I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can be
easily swapped.

-Chris

Veronika Irvine wrote:
> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>
> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things in the
> SWT development plan:
> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>
> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new project
> with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would also prefer to
> see a native solution wherever possible.
>
> Veronika
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #67972 is a reply to message #67906] Tue, 13 September 2005 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Mark,

The eRCP project is completely below my radar. I was aware of the
project, but not that it includes these extra custom widgets. Are these
widgets usable in a normal desktop environment?

I certainly don't want to duplicate work, but up until now I haven't
seen much in the way of other custom components. If your components are
usable by desktop developers, I don't think many are aware of it.

-Chris

Mark Rogalski wrote:
> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm sure
> would be useful to developers. However, some of the function overlaps with
> the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology project.
> Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within SWT Mobile
> Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile Extensions also has a
> DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for Mascara).
>
> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
> extension libraries that provide similar function under different
> signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>
> Mark
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68015 is a reply to message #67951] Wed, 14 September 2005 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'd also like to mention that the date/calendar component mentioned in
the proposal was not supposed to imply a date editor/picker. Rather a
full-fledged standalone calendar widget to be used in scheduling type
applications. I did realize that SWT was working on a date picker for
3.2 and was not intending to duplicate effort there.

-Chris

Chris Gross wrote:
> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>
> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can be
> easily swapped.
>
> -Chris
>
> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>
>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>> in the SWT development plan:
>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>
>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
>> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>
>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>
>> Veronika
>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68036 is a reply to message #67951] Wed, 14 September 2005 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I echo the overlap concerns as well. It seems like having a project
outside of SWT that is creating widgets that are a part of Eclipse will
come with a lot of planning and staying in sync with what the vision is
for SWT and it's plans. Would it be possible to make this a subproject
of SWT or maybe to just have the same committee providing direction?

It would be nice to see a summary of why this should be an Eclipse
project and not just a open source unaffiliated project. I understand
the need for custom widgets as I and many others have written our own
but having it affiliated with Eclipse is what I'm curious about. I
realize there are advantages but I'm curious what you think this will bring.

Also I'm curious about the painting strategy. From the SWTPlus javadoc
is looks like this is straight SWT. Is that correct? If this does
become an Eclipse project is draw2d going to be considered for a
painting framework? One of the reasons I haven't adopted some custom
widgets (KTable) is because it does it's own thing (and I'm sure there
was good reason for it too, not trying to knock it). Having a painting
framework specific to a component or lack there of creates a somewhat
high learning curve for consumers.

-Brad

Chris Gross wrote:
> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>
> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can be
> easily swapped.
>
> -Chris
>
> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>
>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>
>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>> in the SWT development plan:
>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>
>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
>> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>
>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>
>> Veronika
>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68056 is a reply to message #68036] Wed, 14 September 2005 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Brad,

The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern used
within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting routines
to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a painting framework
or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think of it similar to
Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.

Regarding the proposal, the reasons are as simple as any other Eclipse
proposal. That is, to encourage the growth of the project by providing
simple infrastructure (website, bugzilla, cvs) and by (hopefully)
encouraging other developers to contribute. The technology behind
Mascara is SWT and therefore Eclipse and I hope that the Eclipse
developers would see some value in encouraging it.

Regarding the overlap, there is some potential for overlap but the
mandate for Mascara is flexibility. I realize now that the principles
behind the proposal somehow didn't end up in the final proposal
document. I'm must have accidentally removed them when I rewrote the
document. Anyway, the primary principle is flexibility, allowing the
developer to choose how each widget should be drawn. Also, the focus
would be one widgets that don't exist on the underlying OS.

I'd be more than happy to discuss ways the project could be overseen by
the SWT team. I'd assumed they were busy enough focusing on native
widgets and this would fall out of their mandate.

-Chris

Brad Reynolds wrote:
> I echo the overlap concerns as well. It seems like having a project
> outside of SWT that is creating widgets that are a part of Eclipse will
> come with a lot of planning and staying in sync with what the vision is
> for SWT and it's plans. Would it be possible to make this a subproject
> of SWT or maybe to just have the same committee providing direction?
>
> It would be nice to see a summary of why this should be an Eclipse
> project and not just a open source unaffiliated project. I understand
> the need for custom widgets as I and many others have written our own
> but having it affiliated with Eclipse is what I'm curious about. I
> realize there are advantages but I'm curious what you think this will
> bring.
>
> Also I'm curious about the painting strategy. From the SWTPlus javadoc
> is looks like this is straight SWT. Is that correct? If this does
> become an Eclipse project is draw2d going to be considered for a
> painting framework? One of the reasons I haven't adopted some custom
> widgets (KTable) is because it does it's own thing (and I'm sure there
> was good reason for it too, not trying to knock it). Having a painting
> framework specific to a component or lack there of creates a somewhat
> high learning curve for consumers.
>
> -Brad
>
> Chris Gross wrote:
>> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>
>> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>> be easily swapped.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>
>>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>
>>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>>> in the SWT development plan:
>>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>
>>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>> (See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>
>>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>
>>> Veronika
>>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68105 is a reply to message #67930] Wed, 14 September 2005 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark Rogalski is currently offline Mark Rogalski
Messages: 201
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Veronika,

To a large extent the eRCP project is an investigational effort into ways to
improve existing Platform components, be it through performance
improvements, new function, new designs, etc.
Ideally, some of the less "embedded device" specific aspects of our work
will migrate into existing projects.

In that light, and regarding the investigation of a Date Picker for SWT,
please consider using the API established by eRCP for its DateEditor widget.
This API reflects desktop as well as embedded usage and is presently
implemented via native widgets on win32, wm2003, and Series/80 platforms,
supporting its viability as a cross-platform solution.



"Veronika Irvine" <veronika_irvine@oti.com> wrote in message
news:dg4frv$nmk$1@news.eclipse.org...
>I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>
> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things in
> the SWT development plan:
> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>
> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would also
> prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>
> Veronika
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68722 is a reply to message #68056] Wed, 14 September 2005 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Chris, thanks for the response. A couple follow up questions/comments
are included below...

Chris Gross wrote:
> Hi Brad,
>
> The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern used
> within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting routines
> to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a painting framework
> or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think of it similar to
> Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.
>
My Swing experience is very limited but in their delegates they do have
the Swing paint framework, right? Swing painting is what draw2d is a
copy of. My concern is that with these widgets not having a framework
in place it would make it harder on the adopter for customization and
reuse of the knowledge required when performing custom painting. Others
with more Swing experience might think this is overkill but it's a
concern of mine.

> Regarding the proposal, the reasons are as simple as any other Eclipse
> proposal. That is, to encourage the growth of the project by providing
> simple infrastructure (website, bugzilla, cvs) and by (hopefully)
> encouraging other developers to contribute. The technology behind
> Mascara is SWT and therefore Eclipse and I hope that the Eclipse
> developers would see some value in encouraging it.
>
> Regarding the overlap, there is some potential for overlap but the
> mandate for Mascara is flexibility. I realize now that the principles
> behind the proposal somehow didn't end up in the final proposal
> document. I'm must have accidentally removed them when I rewrote the
> document. Anyway, the primary principle is flexibility, allowing the
> developer to choose how each widget should be drawn. Also, the focus
> would be one widgets that don't exist on the underlying OS.
>
> I'd be more than happy to discuss ways the project could be overseen by
> the SWT team. I'd assumed they were busy enough focusing on native
> widgets and this would fall out of their mandate.
>
I'm sure they're too busy as well but it seems like a higher level
"widgets" committee might be needed and both SWT and Mascara could fall
under it. I see both as a way to create widgets and the implementation
is a somewhat more minor of a detail even though it is the major
differentiating factor. As a consumer of both I want a widget and the
implementation is an attribute of that widget, not the reason to use it.

> -Chris
>
> Brad Reynolds wrote:
>
>> I echo the overlap concerns as well. It seems like having a project
>> outside of SWT that is creating widgets that are a part of Eclipse
>> will come with a lot of planning and staying in sync with what the
>> vision is for SWT and it's plans. Would it be possible to make this a
>> subproject of SWT or maybe to just have the same committee providing
>> direction?
>>
>> It would be nice to see a summary of why this should be an Eclipse
>> project and not just a open source unaffiliated project. I understand
>> the need for custom widgets as I and many others have written our own
>> but having it affiliated with Eclipse is what I'm curious about. I
>> realize there are advantages but I'm curious what you think this will
>> bring.
>>
>> Also I'm curious about the painting strategy. From the SWTPlus
>> javadoc is looks like this is straight SWT. Is that correct? If this
>> does become an Eclipse project is draw2d going to be considered for a
>> painting framework? One of the reasons I haven't adopted some custom
>> widgets (KTable) is because it does it's own thing (and I'm sure there
>> was good reason for it too, not trying to knock it). Having a
>> painting framework specific to a component or lack there of creates a
>> somewhat high learning curve for consumers.
>>
>> -Brad
>>
>> Chris Gross wrote:
>>
>>> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>>> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>>
>>> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>>> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>>> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>>> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>>> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>>> be easily swapped.
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>>
>>> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>>
>>>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of
>>>> things in the SWT development plan:
>>>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>>
>>>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>>> (See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations
>>>> or patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a
>>>> new project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I
>>>> would also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>>
>>>> Veronika
>>>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68767 is a reply to message #68722] Thu, 15 September 2005 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: scheglov_ke.nlmk.ru

Brad Reynolds wrote:

>> The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern used
>> within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting routines
>> to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a painting framework
>> or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think of it similar to
>> Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.
>>
> My Swing experience is very limited but in their delegates they do have
> the Swing paint framework, right? Swing painting is what draw2d is a
> copy of. My concern is that with these widgets not having a framework
> in place it would make it harder on the adopter for customization and
> reuse of the knowledge required when performing custom painting. Others
> with more Swing experience might think this is overkill but it's a
> concern of mine.

Draw2D is useful when you need several lightweight figures in single SWT
control. But we want new SWT controls. This is same situation as with
other custom SWT controls, such as ViewForm or CTabFolder. We start from
Canvas and do our painting, we don't use draw2d. SWTPlus in addition
provides ability for better customizing these controls by implementing
painting strategies. I like this idea. Yes, SWT uses native controls and
this is good. But when you want some special control, you have to
implement it yourself. Implementing delegate is not harder than
implementing new control, plus you alreade have some basis and can
concentrate on your specific presentation.


--
SY, Konstantin.
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68788 is a reply to message #68767] Thu, 15 September 2005 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'm not arguing that a delegation mechanism isn't needed. It is and
without it this proposal would have much less value. Delegation isn't
just a SWTPlus concept, it's a common design pattern that can be
implemented with or without SWTPlus and can be done in draw2d as well.
My comments are geared toward having a object oriented painting
framework that is used throughout the custom painted components above
and beyond the SWT provided routines. I just like a more object
oriented approach for this and it limits the amount of toolkits I have
to use or have knowledge of when painting. Draw2d handles the
coalescing of paint events, provides layouts, and satisfies other
general needs when painting. The other reason I like draw2d is that
there are many tutorials and articles by Sun on their Swing painting
framework that is directly compatible with draw2d. Documentation in
some realms of Eclipse are quite scarce.

Also I should probably state that I'm mostly concerned about having a
painting framework in complex controls like Table. The more complex the
control the more benefit a framework will provide.

Anyway I'll drop it as apparently no one else agrees with me on this point.

Konstantin Scheglov wrote:
> Brad Reynolds wrote:
>
>>> The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern
>>> used within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting
>>> routines to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a
>>> painting framework or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think
>>> of it similar to Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.
>>>
>> My Swing experience is very limited but in their delegates they do
>> have the Swing paint framework, right? Swing painting is what draw2d
>> is a copy of. My concern is that with these widgets not having a
>> framework in place it would make it harder on the adopter for
>> customization and reuse of the knowledge required when performing
>> custom painting. Others with more Swing experience might think this
>> is overkill but it's a concern of mine.
>
>
> Draw2D is useful when you need several lightweight figures in single
> SWT control. But we want new SWT controls. This is same situation as
> with other custom SWT controls, such as ViewForm or CTabFolder. We start
> from Canvas and do our painting, we don't use draw2d. SWTPlus in
> addition provides ability for better customizing these controls by
> implementing painting strategies. I like this idea. Yes, SWT uses native
> controls and this is good. But when you want some special control, you
> have to implement it yourself. Implementing delegate is not harder than
> implementing new control, plus you alreade have some basis and can
> concentrate on your specific presentation.
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68842 is a reply to message #68788] Mon, 19 September 2005 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: veronika_irvine.oti.com

"Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43296E0F.5000007@gmail.com...
>Draw2d handles the coalescing of paint events

In SWT, it is unneccessary to handle the coalescing of paint events. This
is already done by the operating system for free.

It would be good to get a comprehensive list of things a painting
"framework" would provide. It would be useful if this information was
captured in a bug report.

Veronika
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68863 is a reply to message #67930] Mon, 19 September 2005 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brian Hudson is currently offline Brian Hudson
Messages: 17
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I agree that I native solution should be used whenever possible.

I also feel that there is a need for a project like this, to help bring
the cutsom component community together.

Someone suggested that these componenets could be submitted to the SWT
project as patches. While I do feel that these components should be
adapted into the SWT project eventually, I do not think this is a viable
approach because the SWT project may be slow to incorpate these
'patches' (if ever) without testing, common api's, and acceptance by the
SWT community.

Common practices/api's, testing, community use and approval are all
things I think the creation of this project will help facilitate.

Components I would like to see are:

- Property Sheet
Example: ( https://l2fprod-common.dev.java.net/images/PropertySheet.jpg)

- Outlook/Shelf Bar (work in progress)
Example: (http://www.swtplus.com/jws2/swtplusExamples2.jnlp)

- MS Office Combos
- Color selection
- Style/Stroke selection
- Dash selection
- Tear Off?
- Font selection

- Improved Table
Example: (http://www.kupzog.de/fkmk/Downloads/KTable.pdf)


Brian Hudson
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68884 is a reply to message #68842] Tue, 20 September 2005 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
What should this bug be logged to? Is there an area for project proposals?

Veronika Irvine wrote:
> "Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:43296E0F.5000007@gmail.com...
>
>>Draw2d handles the coalescing of paint events
>
>
> In SWT, it is unneccessary to handle the coalescing of paint events. This
> is already done by the operating system for free.
>
> It would be good to get a comprehensive list of things a painting
> "framework" would provide. It would be useful if this information was
> captured in a bug report.
>
> Veronika
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #68925 is a reply to message #68884] Wed, 21 September 2005 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: veronika_irvine.oti.com

I would log this bug against Platform SWT.

"Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:432FF805.6080006@gmail.com...
> What should this bug be logged to? Is there an area for project
> proposals?
>
> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>> "Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:43296E0F.5000007@gmail.com...
>>
>>>Draw2d handles the coalescing of paint events
>>
>>
>> In SWT, it is unneccessary to handle the coalescing of paint events.
>> This is already done by the operating system for free.
>>
>> It would be good to get a comprehensive list of things a painting
>> "framework" would provide. It would be useful if this information was
>> captured in a bug report.
>>
>> Veronika
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69051 is a reply to message #67906] Tue, 27 September 2005 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: veronika_irvine.oti.com

On the proposal web site (http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/mascara/), there
is a jnlp download to demonstrate the proposed widgets.

The jnlp format is not very convenient for me, I do not want to install Web
Start on my machine. Can you provide this demonstration as an archived
eclipse project ( a zip file with a .project file) or some other format that
is simple to use?

"Mark Rogalski" <rogalski@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:dg46oq$b19$1@news.eclipse.org...
> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm
> sure would be useful to developers. However, some of the function overlaps
> with the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology project.
> Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within SWT Mobile
> Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile Extensions also has
> a DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for Mascara).
>
> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
> extension libraries that provide similar function under different
> signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>
> Mark
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69072 is a reply to message #69051] Tue, 27 September 2005 23:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Sure.

Try:
http://www.swtplus.com/download/swtplus.zip
http://www.swtplus.com/download/swtplusGallery.zip

-Chris

p.s. I am going to update the proposal soon. I want to make sure it states
that the intent is not to 'compete' with SWT in anyway, simply to augment.
Thus the focus will almost exclusively be on things that SWT does not
provide and has no plans to provide. The fact that there is already a
expandable composite component is really just because I happened to go
create on before I was aware of any SWT plans to provide one.

"Veronika Irvine" <veronika_irvine@oti.com> wrote in message
news:dhblej$ook$1@news.eclipse.org...
> On the proposal web site (http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/mascara/),
> there is a jnlp download to demonstrate the proposed widgets.
>
> The jnlp format is not very convenient for me, I do not want to install
> Web Start on my machine. Can you provide this demonstration as an
> archived eclipse project ( a zip file with a .project file) or some other
> format that is simple to use?
>
> "Mark Rogalski" <rogalski@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:dg46oq$b19$1@news.eclipse.org...
>> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm
>> sure would be useful to developers. However, some of the function
>> overlaps with the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology
>> project. Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within
>> SWT Mobile Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile
>> Extensions also has a DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for
>> Mascara).
>>
>> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
>> extension libraries that provide similar function under different
>> signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69093 is a reply to message #69072] Wed, 28 September 2005 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: veronika_irvine.oti.com

Thanks very much. I look forward to seeing the updated proposal site.

"Chris" <schtoo@schtoo.com> wrote in message
news:dhcme0$a42$1@news.eclipse.org...
> Sure.
>
> Try:
> http://www.swtplus.com/download/swtplus.zip
> http://www.swtplus.com/download/swtplusGallery.zip
>
> -Chris
>
> p.s. I am going to update the proposal soon. I want to make sure it
> states that the intent is not to 'compete' with SWT in anyway, simply to
> augment. Thus the focus will almost exclusively be on things that SWT does
> not provide and has no plans to provide. The fact that there is already a
> expandable composite component is really just because I happened to go
> create on before I was aware of any SWT plans to provide one.
>
> "Veronika Irvine" <veronika_irvine@oti.com> wrote in message
> news:dhblej$ook$1@news.eclipse.org...
>> On the proposal web site (http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/mascara/),
>> there is a jnlp download to demonstrate the proposed widgets.
>>
>> The jnlp format is not very convenient for me, I do not want to install
>> Web Start on my machine. Can you provide this demonstration as an
>> archived eclipse project ( a zip file with a .project file) or some other
>> format that is simple to use?
>>
>> "Mark Rogalski" <rogalski@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
>> news:dg46oq$b19$1@news.eclipse.org...
>>> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm
>>> sure would be useful to developers. However, some of the function
>>> overlaps with the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology
>>> project. Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within
>>> SWT Mobile Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile
>>> Extensions also has a DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for
>>> Mascara).
>>>
>>> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to
>>> proliferate extension libraries that provide similar function under
>>> different signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Pro SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69114 is a reply to message #67906] Thu, 29 September 2005 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Krkoska is currently offline Michael Krkoska
Messages: 11
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello,

I very recently discovered SWTPlus. Since I realized, that it is an
Eclipse subproject proposal, I want to share some thoughts about it.

Impressed by the demo I started using some of the unfinished, undocumented
widgets, which I found very easy due to good design. The method signatures
said it all...

You get hooked on the flexibility you get with these widgets. For me it is
some kind of "Pimp up your SWT Widget". It extends the native SWT Widgets
in creative and practical ways. Overlaps with SWT development plans would
be duplicate work, but as far as I can follow the discussion this is not
intended.

Why do I think this should become an Eclipse subproject?

There are several projects for custom widgets duplicating work already:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/swt-datepicker/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/twist/
http://gface.sourceforge.net
http://swt-controls.com/
http://swtcalendar.sourceforge.net/index.html
http://www.novocode.com/swt/

And lots more who do custom widgets without publishing a sourceforge
project, as was pointed out already.

Give these people a common project where they can spend their energy in a
more efficient way! Having a committee who decides which widgets to
develop where does seem essential though.

Another point is that a variety of useful widgets is a strong argument for
a GUI API. I believe that you can convince more people to develop with
SWT, if you give them more possibilities and make their lives easier. As a
normal user you should not feel the need to develop a custom widget - you
should only feel the need to choose right.

Also SWT cannot be up to date concerning "modern" widgets, when focusing
on native widgets only. You have to wait too long, until implementation
becomes feasable on all platforms. Allowing the sidestep of custom widgets
makes future SWT development more flexible.

Basic SWT is lean concerning widgets and contains only the most important
ones. This is a good thing. But I find it induces the need of a subproject
where you can grow a bit, if it seems appropriate.

Sorry for the long text, but I hope to enliven discussion about this
proposal.
Bye,
Michael
Re: Pro SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69135 is a reply to message #69114] Fri, 30 September 2005 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brian Hudson is currently offline Brian Hudson
Messages: 17
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Well said, I agree completely.

I too think SWT would benefit greatly from a (sub)project like this.

As you've stated, allow the SWT team to concentrate on the native
implementations of widgets, and have a project like this concentrate on
creating "modern" widgets (using combinations of the native components
to create these whenever possible).

I think this project would quickly gather committees who have been using
and creating widgets for SWT for a while (known and unknown).

The reason I feel that a project like this is so important is that the
APIs for all of these custom widgets should have APIs/design philosophies.

Also, being an eclipse project lends a degree of credibility to the
project. My management would be far less adverse to including a new
jar/plugin from an official eclipse (sub)project than it would be to
including one from John Doe that I pulled off of sourceforge.

Brian Hudson

Michael Krkoska wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I very recently discovered SWTPlus. Since I realized, that it is an
> Eclipse subproject proposal, I want to share some thoughts about it.
>
> Impressed by the demo I started using some of the unfinished,
> undocumented widgets, which I found very easy due to good design. The
> method signatures said it all...
>
> You get hooked on the flexibility you get with these widgets. For me it
> is some kind of "Pimp up your SWT Widget". It extends the native SWT
> Widgets in creative and practical ways. Overlaps with SWT development
> plans would be duplicate work, but as far as I can follow the discussion
> this is not intended.
>
> Why do I think this should become an Eclipse subproject?
> There are several projects for custom widgets duplicating work already:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/swt-datepicker/
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/twist/
> http://gface.sourceforge.net
> http://swt-controls.com/
> http://swtcalendar.sourceforge.net/index.html
> http://www.novocode.com/swt/
>
> And lots more who do custom widgets without publishing a sourceforge
> project, as was pointed out already.
>
> Give these people a common project where they can spend their energy in
> a more efficient way! Having a committee who decides which widgets to
> develop where does seem essential though.
>
> Another point is that a variety of useful widgets is a strong argument
> for a GUI API. I believe that you can convince more people to develop
> with SWT, if you give them more possibilities and make their lives
> easier. As a normal user you should not feel the need to develop a
> custom widget - you should only feel the need to choose right.
> Also SWT cannot be up to date concerning "modern" widgets, when focusing
> on native widgets only. You have to wait too long, until implementation
> becomes feasable on all platforms. Allowing the sidestep of custom
> widgets makes future SWT development more flexible.
> Basic SWT is lean concerning widgets and contains only the most
> important ones. This is a good thing. But I find it induces the need of
> a subproject where you can grow a bit, if it seems appropriate.
>
> Sorry for the long text, but I hope to enliven discussion about this
> proposal.
> Bye,
> Michael
>
Re: Pro SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69603 is a reply to message #69114] Thu, 10 November 2005 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guy Nirpaz is currently offline Guy Nirpaz
Messages: 8
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello,

I agree with Michael. One of the major limitations of SWT is it's lack
of widgets echo-system.
Having a house for components in eclipse will largely increase its
potential as a candidate for UI/RCP development.

I am willing to contribute everything that already exist in GFace
(http://gface.sf.net) - the only reason I started this project was the
lack of required widgets and the fact that at that time no commercial
alternatives were available.

Guy

Michael Krkoska wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I very recently discovered SWTPlus. Since I realized, that it is an
> Eclipse subproject proposal, I want to share some thoughts about it.
>
> Impressed by the demo I started using some of the unfinished,
> undocumented widgets, which I found very easy due to good design. The
> method signatures said it all...
>
> You get hooked on the flexibility you get with these widgets. For me it
> is some kind of "Pimp up your SWT Widget". It extends the native SWT
> Widgets in creative and practical ways. Overlaps with SWT development
> plans would be duplicate work, but as far as I can follow the discussion
> this is not intended.
>
> Why do I think this should become an Eclipse subproject?
> There are several projects for custom widgets duplicating work already:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/swt-datepicker/
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/twist/
> http://gface.sourceforge.net
> http://swt-controls.com/
> http://swtcalendar.sourceforge.net/index.html
> http://www.novocode.com/swt/
>
> And lots more who do custom widgets without publishing a sourceforge
> project, as was pointed out already.
>
> Give these people a common project where they can spend their energy in
> a more efficient way! Having a committee who decides which widgets to
> develop where does seem essential though.
>
> Another point is that a variety of useful widgets is a strong argument
> for a GUI API. I believe that you can convince more people to develop
> with SWT, if you give them more possibilities and make their lives
> easier. As a normal user you should not feel the need to develop a
> custom widget - you should only feel the need to choose right.
> Also SWT cannot be up to date concerning "modern" widgets, when focusing
> on native widgets only. You have to wait too long, until implementation
> becomes feasable on all platforms. Allowing the sidestep of custom
> widgets makes future SWT development more flexible.
> Basic SWT is lean concerning widgets and contains only the most
> important ones. This is a good thing. But I find it induces the need of
> a subproject where you can grow a bit, if it seems appropriate.
>
> Sorry for the long text, but I hope to enliven discussion about this
> proposal.
> Bye,
> Michael
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69624 is a reply to message #68015] Thu, 10 November 2005 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: dev.myriadfinancial.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000209070301040407070300
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

please excuse my confusion, but would you clarify a little more
regarding what a "date editor/picker" is and what a "calendar widget" is?

attached is a picture of what I've been working on as a date picker,
though I've had people call it a calendar widget...

thanks!



Chris Gross wrote:
> I'd also like to mention that the date/calendar component mentioned in
> the proposal was not supposed to imply a date editor/picker. Rather a
> full-fledged standalone calendar widget to be used in scheduling type
> applications. I did realize that SWT was working on a date picker for
> 3.2 and was not intending to duplicate effort there.
>
> -Chris
>
> Chris Gross wrote:
>
>> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>
>> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>> be easily swapped.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>
>>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>
>>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>>> in the SWT development plan:
>>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>
>>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>> (See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>
>>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>
>>> Veronika
>>>

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Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69644 is a reply to message #69624] Mon, 14 November 2005 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark Rogalski is currently offline Mark Rogalski
Messages: 201
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
The terminology in this area is a bit loose. But from your image, it looks
like a "calendar widget". In other words, a widget that always displays a
month view calendar.

The "DateEditor" provided in the eRCP project is a natively backed widget.
The Java API does not constrain the widget to a particular format, but
allows the programmer to specify "compact" or "full" styles depending on how
much screen realestate he wants to devote to the widget. Thus, it could be
displayed as a text box with editable date fields or as a calendar widget.
Implementations may also support text boxes with a popup calendar to assist
date selection. I most cases, what ever format is shown will have the
familiar look and feel of the native GUI.


"Jeremy Dowdall" <dev@myriadfinancial.com> wrote in message
news:dl0kgj$jl0$1@news.eclipse.org...
> please excuse my confusion, but would you clarify a little more
> regarding what a "date editor/picker" is and what a "calendar widget" is?
>
> attached is a picture of what I've been working on as a date picker,
> though I've had people call it a calendar widget...
>
> thanks!
>
>
>
> Chris Gross wrote:
>> I'd also like to mention that the date/calendar component mentioned in
>> the proposal was not supposed to imply a date editor/picker. Rather a
>> full-fledged standalone calendar widget to be used in scheduling type
>> applications. I did realize that SWT was working on a date picker for
>> 3.2 and was not intending to duplicate effort there.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> Chris Gross wrote:
>>
>>> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>>> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>>
>>> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>>> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>>> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>>> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>>> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>>> be easily swapped.
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>>
>>> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>>
>>>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>>>> in the SWT development plan:
>>>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>>
>>>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>>> (See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>>>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>>>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>>>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>>
>>>> Veronika
>>>>
>


------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #69684 is a reply to message #69644] Mon, 14 November 2005 15:49 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: dev.myriadfinancial.com

thanks for the clarification - I hadn't looked at the eRCP project yet
and haven't been able to find anything on the SWT pages other than it's
under investigation.

Veronica - is there a projected milestone that will contain this widget?

thanks!


Mark Rogalski wrote:
> The terminology in this area is a bit loose. But from your image, it looks
> like a "calendar widget". In other words, a widget that always displays a
> month view calendar.
>
> The "DateEditor" provided in the eRCP project is a natively backed widget.
> The Java API does not constrain the widget to a particular format, but
> allows the programmer to specify "compact" or "full" styles depending on how
> much screen realestate he wants to devote to the widget. Thus, it could be
> displayed as a text box with editable date fields or as a calendar widget.
> Implementations may also support text boxes with a popup calendar to assist
> date selection. I most cases, what ever format is shown will have the
> familiar look and feel of the native GUI.
>
>
> "Jeremy Dowdall" <dev@myriadfinancial.com> wrote in message
> news:dl0kgj$jl0$1@news.eclipse.org...
>
>>please excuse my confusion, but would you clarify a little more
>>regarding what a "date editor/picker" is and what a "calendar widget" is?
>>
>>attached is a picture of what I've been working on as a date picker,
>>though I've had people call it a calendar widget...
>>
>>thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>Chris Gross wrote:
>>
>>>I'd also like to mention that the date/calendar component mentioned in
>>>the proposal was not supposed to imply a date editor/picker. Rather a
>>>full-fledged standalone calendar widget to be used in scheduling type
>>>applications. I did realize that SWT was working on a date picker for
>>>3.2 and was not intending to duplicate effort there.
>>>
>>>-Chris
>>>
>>>Chris Gross wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>>>>SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>>>
>>>>I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>>>>flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>>>>solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>>>>widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>>>>SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>>>>be easily swapped.
>>>>
>>>>-Chris
>>>>
>>>>Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>>>>>in the SWT development plan:
>>>>>- Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>>>
>>>>>- Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>>>>(https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>>>>- We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>>>>(See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>>>
>>>>>I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>>>>>patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>>>>>project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>>>>>also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>Veronika
>>>>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
>
>
>
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #598981 is a reply to message #67906] Mon, 12 September 2005 18:02 Go to previous message
Veronika Irvine is currently offline Veronika Irvine
Messages: 1272
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I also have some concerns about this proposed project.

There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things in the
SWT development plan:
- Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
- Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
(https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
- We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)

I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new project
with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would also prefer to
see a native solution wherever possible.

Veronika
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #598987 is a reply to message #67930] Tue, 13 September 2005 17:50 Go to previous message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
SWT, most specifically the expandable group.

I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can be
easily swapped.

-Chris

Veronika Irvine wrote:
> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>
> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things in the
> SWT development plan:
> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>
> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new project
> with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would also prefer to
> see a native solution wherever possible.
>
> Veronika
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #598992 is a reply to message #67906] Tue, 13 September 2005 17:57 Go to previous message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Mark,

The eRCP project is completely below my radar. I was aware of the
project, but not that it includes these extra custom widgets. Are these
widgets usable in a normal desktop environment?

I certainly don't want to duplicate work, but up until now I haven't
seen much in the way of other custom components. If your components are
usable by desktop developers, I don't think many are aware of it.

-Chris

Mark Rogalski wrote:
> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm sure
> would be useful to developers. However, some of the function overlaps with
> the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology project.
> Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within SWT Mobile
> Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile Extensions also has a
> DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for Mascara).
>
> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
> extension libraries that provide similar function under different
> signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>
> Mark
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599007 is a reply to message #67951] Wed, 14 September 2005 12:32 Go to previous message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'd also like to mention that the date/calendar component mentioned in
the proposal was not supposed to imply a date editor/picker. Rather a
full-fledged standalone calendar widget to be used in scheduling type
applications. I did realize that SWT was working on a date picker for
3.2 and was not intending to duplicate effort there.

-Chris

Chris Gross wrote:
> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>
> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can be
> easily swapped.
>
> -Chris
>
> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>
>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>> in the SWT development plan:
>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>
>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
>> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>
>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>
>> Veronika
>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599013 is a reply to message #67951] Wed, 14 September 2005 13:14 Go to previous message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I echo the overlap concerns as well. It seems like having a project
outside of SWT that is creating widgets that are a part of Eclipse will
come with a lot of planning and staying in sync with what the vision is
for SWT and it's plans. Would it be possible to make this a subproject
of SWT or maybe to just have the same committee providing direction?

It would be nice to see a summary of why this should be an Eclipse
project and not just a open source unaffiliated project. I understand
the need for custom widgets as I and many others have written our own
but having it affiliated with Eclipse is what I'm curious about. I
realize there are advantages but I'm curious what you think this will bring.

Also I'm curious about the painting strategy. From the SWTPlus javadoc
is looks like this is straight SWT. Is that correct? If this does
become an Eclipse project is draw2d going to be considered for a
painting framework? One of the reasons I haven't adopted some custom
widgets (KTable) is because it does it's own thing (and I'm sure there
was good reason for it too, not trying to knock it). Having a painting
framework specific to a component or lack there of creates a somewhat
high learning curve for consumers.

-Brad

Chris Gross wrote:
> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>
> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can be
> easily swapped.
>
> -Chris
>
> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>
>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>
>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>> in the SWT development plan:
>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>
>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
>> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>
>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>
>> Veronika
>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599020 is a reply to message #68036] Wed, 14 September 2005 13:56 Go to previous message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Brad,

The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern used
within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting routines
to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a painting framework
or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think of it similar to
Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.

Regarding the proposal, the reasons are as simple as any other Eclipse
proposal. That is, to encourage the growth of the project by providing
simple infrastructure (website, bugzilla, cvs) and by (hopefully)
encouraging other developers to contribute. The technology behind
Mascara is SWT and therefore Eclipse and I hope that the Eclipse
developers would see some value in encouraging it.

Regarding the overlap, there is some potential for overlap but the
mandate for Mascara is flexibility. I realize now that the principles
behind the proposal somehow didn't end up in the final proposal
document. I'm must have accidentally removed them when I rewrote the
document. Anyway, the primary principle is flexibility, allowing the
developer to choose how each widget should be drawn. Also, the focus
would be one widgets that don't exist on the underlying OS.

I'd be more than happy to discuss ways the project could be overseen by
the SWT team. I'd assumed they were busy enough focusing on native
widgets and this would fall out of their mandate.

-Chris

Brad Reynolds wrote:
> I echo the overlap concerns as well. It seems like having a project
> outside of SWT that is creating widgets that are a part of Eclipse will
> come with a lot of planning and staying in sync with what the vision is
> for SWT and it's plans. Would it be possible to make this a subproject
> of SWT or maybe to just have the same committee providing direction?
>
> It would be nice to see a summary of why this should be an Eclipse
> project and not just a open source unaffiliated project. I understand
> the need for custom widgets as I and many others have written our own
> but having it affiliated with Eclipse is what I'm curious about. I
> realize there are advantages but I'm curious what you think this will
> bring.
>
> Also I'm curious about the painting strategy. From the SWTPlus javadoc
> is looks like this is straight SWT. Is that correct? If this does
> become an Eclipse project is draw2d going to be considered for a
> painting framework? One of the reasons I haven't adopted some custom
> widgets (KTable) is because it does it's own thing (and I'm sure there
> was good reason for it too, not trying to knock it). Having a painting
> framework specific to a component or lack there of creates a somewhat
> high learning curve for consumers.
>
> -Brad
>
> Chris Gross wrote:
>> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>
>> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>> be easily swapped.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>
>>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>
>>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things
>>> in the SWT development plan:
>>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>
>>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>> (See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>
>>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
>>> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
>>> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would
>>> also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>
>>> Veronika
>>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599042 is a reply to message #67930] Wed, 14 September 2005 14:25 Go to previous message
Mark Rogalski is currently offline Mark Rogalski
Messages: 201
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Veronika,

To a large extent the eRCP project is an investigational effort into ways to
improve existing Platform components, be it through performance
improvements, new function, new designs, etc.
Ideally, some of the less "embedded device" specific aspects of our work
will migrate into existing projects.

In that light, and regarding the investigation of a Date Picker for SWT,
please consider using the API established by eRCP for its DateEditor widget.
This API reflects desktop as well as embedded usage and is presently
implemented via native widgets on win32, wm2003, and Series/80 platforms,
supporting its viability as a cross-platform solution.



"Veronika Irvine" <veronika_irvine@oti.com> wrote in message
news:dg4frv$nmk$1@news.eclipse.org...
>I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>
> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of things in
> the SWT development plan:
> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2 (See
> Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>
> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations or
> patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a new
> project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I would also
> prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>
> Veronika
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599049 is a reply to message #68056] Wed, 14 September 2005 14:31 Go to previous message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Chris, thanks for the response. A couple follow up questions/comments
are included below...

Chris Gross wrote:
> Hi Brad,
>
> The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern used
> within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting routines
> to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a painting framework
> or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think of it similar to
> Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.
>
My Swing experience is very limited but in their delegates they do have
the Swing paint framework, right? Swing painting is what draw2d is a
copy of. My concern is that with these widgets not having a framework
in place it would make it harder on the adopter for customization and
reuse of the knowledge required when performing custom painting. Others
with more Swing experience might think this is overkill but it's a
concern of mine.

> Regarding the proposal, the reasons are as simple as any other Eclipse
> proposal. That is, to encourage the growth of the project by providing
> simple infrastructure (website, bugzilla, cvs) and by (hopefully)
> encouraging other developers to contribute. The technology behind
> Mascara is SWT and therefore Eclipse and I hope that the Eclipse
> developers would see some value in encouraging it.
>
> Regarding the overlap, there is some potential for overlap but the
> mandate for Mascara is flexibility. I realize now that the principles
> behind the proposal somehow didn't end up in the final proposal
> document. I'm must have accidentally removed them when I rewrote the
> document. Anyway, the primary principle is flexibility, allowing the
> developer to choose how each widget should be drawn. Also, the focus
> would be one widgets that don't exist on the underlying OS.
>
> I'd be more than happy to discuss ways the project could be overseen by
> the SWT team. I'd assumed they were busy enough focusing on native
> widgets and this would fall out of their mandate.
>
I'm sure they're too busy as well but it seems like a higher level
"widgets" committee might be needed and both SWT and Mascara could fall
under it. I see both as a way to create widgets and the implementation
is a somewhat more minor of a detail even though it is the major
differentiating factor. As a consumer of both I want a widget and the
implementation is an attribute of that widget, not the reason to use it.

> -Chris
>
> Brad Reynolds wrote:
>
>> I echo the overlap concerns as well. It seems like having a project
>> outside of SWT that is creating widgets that are a part of Eclipse
>> will come with a lot of planning and staying in sync with what the
>> vision is for SWT and it's plans. Would it be possible to make this a
>> subproject of SWT or maybe to just have the same committee providing
>> direction?
>>
>> It would be nice to see a summary of why this should be an Eclipse
>> project and not just a open source unaffiliated project. I understand
>> the need for custom widgets as I and many others have written our own
>> but having it affiliated with Eclipse is what I'm curious about. I
>> realize there are advantages but I'm curious what you think this will
>> bring.
>>
>> Also I'm curious about the painting strategy. From the SWTPlus
>> javadoc is looks like this is straight SWT. Is that correct? If this
>> does become an Eclipse project is draw2d going to be considered for a
>> painting framework? One of the reasons I haven't adopted some custom
>> widgets (KTable) is because it does it's own thing (and I'm sure there
>> was good reason for it too, not trying to knock it). Having a
>> painting framework specific to a component or lack there of creates a
>> somewhat high learning curve for consumers.
>>
>> -Brad
>>
>> Chris Gross wrote:
>>
>>> I'm more than willing to offer the existing overlapping widgets up to
>>> SWT, most specifically the expandable group.
>>>
>>> I am worried about some overlap with SWT. But Mascara's mandate is
>>> flexibility where SWT's is to be native. I generally prefer a native
>>> solution, but sometimes a native solution doesn't cut it (the Table
>>> widget is a good example of that). As you can see with the existing
>>> SWTPlus widgets, they're all driven from painting strategies that can
>>> be easily swapped.
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>>
>>> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also have some concerns about this proposed project.
>>>>
>>>> There are a number of items on the list that are duplicates of
>>>> things in the SWT development plan:
>>>> - Hyperlinks were added in Eclipse 3.1 (see the Link widget
>>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.sni ppets/src/org/eclipse/swt/snippets/Snippet182.java?rev=HEAD& amp;content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup).
>>>>
>>>> - Expandable groups are on the 3.2 plan
>>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=106182).
>>>> - We are actively investigating a native Date Time Picker for 3.2
>>>> (See Milestone M2 in http://eclipse.org/swt/R3_2/plan.html)
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer to see patches against existing SWT implementations
>>>> or patches suggesting implementations for new widgets rather than a
>>>> new project with a focus that is so similar to the SWT project. I
>>>> would also prefer to see a native solution wherever possible.
>>>>
>>>> Veronika
>>>>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599073 is a reply to message #68722] Thu, 15 September 2005 04:40 Go to previous message
Konstantin Scheglov is currently offline Konstantin Scheglov
Messages: 554
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Brad Reynolds wrote:

>> The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern used
>> within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting routines
>> to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a painting framework
>> or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think of it similar to
>> Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.
>>
> My Swing experience is very limited but in their delegates they do have
> the Swing paint framework, right? Swing painting is what draw2d is a
> copy of. My concern is that with these widgets not having a framework
> in place it would make it harder on the adopter for customization and
> reuse of the knowledge required when performing custom painting. Others
> with more Swing experience might think this is overkill but it's a
> concern of mine.

Draw2D is useful when you need several lightweight figures in single SWT
control. But we want new SWT controls. This is same situation as with
other custom SWT controls, such as ViewForm or CTabFolder. We start from
Canvas and do our painting, we don't use draw2d. SWTPlus in addition
provides ability for better customizing these controls by implementing
painting strategies. I like this idea. Yes, SWT uses native controls and
this is good. But when you want some special control, you have to
implement it yourself. Implementing delegate is not harder than
implementing new control, plus you alreade have some basis and can
concentrate on your specific presentation.


--
SY, Konstantin.


Konstantin Scheglov,
Google, Inc.
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599080 is a reply to message #68767] Thu, 15 September 2005 12:50 Go to previous message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'm not arguing that a delegation mechanism isn't needed. It is and
without it this proposal would have much less value. Delegation isn't
just a SWTPlus concept, it's a common design pattern that can be
implemented with or without SWTPlus and can be done in draw2d as well.
My comments are geared toward having a object oriented painting
framework that is used throughout the custom painted components above
and beyond the SWT provided routines. I just like a more object
oriented approach for this and it limits the amount of toolkits I have
to use or have knowledge of when painting. Draw2d handles the
coalescing of paint events, provides layouts, and satisfies other
general needs when painting. The other reason I like draw2d is that
there are many tutorials and articles by Sun on their Swing painting
framework that is directly compatible with draw2d. Documentation in
some realms of Eclipse are quite scarce.

Also I should probably state that I'm mostly concerned about having a
painting framework in complex controls like Table. The more complex the
control the more benefit a framework will provide.

Anyway I'll drop it as apparently no one else agrees with me on this point.

Konstantin Scheglov wrote:
> Brad Reynolds wrote:
>
>>> The 'painting strategy' reference I made refers to a design pattern
>>> used within SWTPlus to allow developers to write their own painting
>>> routines to be used within SWTPlus's widgets. Certainly not a
>>> painting framework or anything that would compete with draw2d. Think
>>> of it similar to Swings UI delegates or owner drawn controls.
>>>
>> My Swing experience is very limited but in their delegates they do
>> have the Swing paint framework, right? Swing painting is what draw2d
>> is a copy of. My concern is that with these widgets not having a
>> framework in place it would make it harder on the adopter for
>> customization and reuse of the knowledge required when performing
>> custom painting. Others with more Swing experience might think this
>> is overkill but it's a concern of mine.
>
>
> Draw2D is useful when you need several lightweight figures in single
> SWT control. But we want new SWT controls. This is same situation as
> with other custom SWT controls, such as ViewForm or CTabFolder. We start
> from Canvas and do our painting, we don't use draw2d. SWTPlus in
> addition provides ability for better customizing these controls by
> implementing painting strategies. I like this idea. Yes, SWT uses native
> controls and this is good. But when you want some special control, you
> have to implement it yourself. Implementing delegate is not harder than
> implementing new control, plus you alreade have some basis and can
> concentrate on your specific presentation.
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599098 is a reply to message #68788] Mon, 19 September 2005 13:54 Go to previous message
Veronika Irvine is currently offline Veronika Irvine
Messages: 1272
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43296E0F.5000007@gmail.com...
>Draw2d handles the coalescing of paint events

In SWT, it is unneccessary to handle the coalescing of paint events. This
is already done by the operating system for free.

It would be good to get a comprehensive list of things a painting
"framework" would provide. It would be useful if this information was
captured in a bug report.

Veronika
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599104 is a reply to message #67930] Mon, 19 September 2005 20:16 Go to previous message
Brian Hudson is currently offline Brian Hudson
Messages: 17
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I agree that I native solution should be used whenever possible.

I also feel that there is a need for a project like this, to help bring
the cutsom component community together.

Someone suggested that these componenets could be submitted to the SWT
project as patches. While I do feel that these components should be
adapted into the SWT project eventually, I do not think this is a viable
approach because the SWT project may be slow to incorpate these
'patches' (if ever) without testing, common api's, and acceptance by the
SWT community.

Common practices/api's, testing, community use and approval are all
things I think the creation of this project will help facilitate.

Components I would like to see are:

- Property Sheet
Example: ( https://l2fprod-common.dev.java.net/images/PropertySheet.jpg)

- Outlook/Shelf Bar (work in progress)
Example: (http://www.swtplus.com/jws2/swtplusExamples2.jnlp)

- MS Office Combos
- Color selection
- Style/Stroke selection
- Dash selection
- Tear Off?
- Font selection

- Improved Table
Example: (http://www.kupzog.de/fkmk/Downloads/KTable.pdf)


Brian Hudson
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599110 is a reply to message #68842] Tue, 20 September 2005 11:52 Go to previous message
Brad Reynolds is currently offline Brad Reynolds
Messages: 309
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
What should this bug be logged to? Is there an area for project proposals?

Veronika Irvine wrote:
> "Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:43296E0F.5000007@gmail.com...
>
>>Draw2d handles the coalescing of paint events
>
>
> In SWT, it is unneccessary to handle the coalescing of paint events. This
> is already done by the operating system for free.
>
> It would be good to get a comprehensive list of things a painting
> "framework" would provide. It would be useful if this information was
> captured in a bug report.
>
> Veronika
>
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599128 is a reply to message #68884] Wed, 21 September 2005 16:02 Go to previous message
Veronika Irvine is currently offline Veronika Irvine
Messages: 1272
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I would log this bug against Platform SWT.

"Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:432FF805.6080006@gmail.com...
> What should this bug be logged to? Is there an area for project
> proposals?
>
> Veronika Irvine wrote:
>> "Brad Reynolds" <bradleyjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:43296E0F.5000007@gmail.com...
>>
>>>Draw2d handles the coalescing of paint events
>>
>>
>> In SWT, it is unneccessary to handle the coalescing of paint events.
>> This is already done by the operating system for free.
>>
>> It would be good to get a comprehensive list of things a painting
>> "framework" would provide. It would be useful if this information was
>> captured in a bug report.
>>
>> Veronika
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599194 is a reply to message #67906] Tue, 27 September 2005 14:37 Go to previous message
Veronika Irvine is currently offline Veronika Irvine
Messages: 1272
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On the proposal web site (http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/mascara/), there
is a jnlp download to demonstrate the proposed widgets.

The jnlp format is not very convenient for me, I do not want to install Web
Start on my machine. Can you provide this demonstration as an archived
eclipse project ( a zip file with a .project file) or some other format that
is simple to use?

"Mark Rogalski" <rogalski@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:dg46oq$b19$1@news.eclipse.org...
> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm
> sure would be useful to developers. However, some of the function overlaps
> with the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology project.
> Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within SWT Mobile
> Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile Extensions also has
> a DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for Mascara).
>
> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
> extension libraries that provide similar function under different
> signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>
> Mark
>
Re: SWTPlus (Mascara) Project [message #599200 is a reply to message #69051] Tue, 27 September 2005 23:59 Go to previous message
Chris Gross is currently offline Chris Gross
Messages: 471
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Sure.

Try:
http://www.swtplus.com/download/swtplus.zip
http://www.swtplus.com/download/swtplusGallery.zip

-Chris

p.s. I am going to update the proposal soon. I want to make sure it states
that the intent is not to 'compete' with SWT in anyway, simply to augment.
Thus the focus will almost exclusively be on things that SWT does not
provide and has no plans to provide. The fact that there is already a
expandable composite component is really just because I happened to go
create on before I was aware of any SWT plans to provide one.

"Veronika Irvine" <veronika_irvine@oti.com> wrote in message
news:dhblej$ook$1@news.eclipse.org...
> On the proposal web site (http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/mascara/),
> there is a jnlp download to demonstrate the proposed widgets.
>
> The jnlp format is not very convenient for me, I do not want to install
> Web Start on my machine. Can you provide this demonstration as an
> archived eclipse project ( a zip file with a .project file) or some other
> format that is simple to use?
>
> "Mark Rogalski" <rogalski@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:dg46oq$b19$1@news.eclipse.org...
>> The SWTPlus demo shows some very nice looking custom widgets which I'm
>> sure would be useful to developers. However, some of the function
>> overlaps with the SWT Mobile Extensions component of the eRCP Technology
>> project. Specifically, PLink and PList are comparable to widgets within
>> SWT Mobile Extensions (HyperLink, ListView, and ListBox). Mobile
>> Extensions also has a DateEditor widget (mentioned as a future item for
>> Mascara).
>>
>> How will these two projects align? We obviously don't want to proliferate
>> extension libraries that provide similar function under different
>> signatures, nor replicate work effort.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>
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