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Interesting perpective from a ... frustrated ... newbie. [message #5765] Sat, 14 May 2005 12:10 Go to next message
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Registered: July 2009
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I received this in my Inbox. Caution: contains foul language not
suitable for children. Perhaps we could use this as a metric for the
"newbie" actor:


I just want to download something that I can use for
Java/JSP development. Why for fuck's sake do those
people make everything so goddamn confusing?

quote:
Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an
open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in
particular.


Gee thanks, jackoff. That's a big help.

quote:
Welcome to the Eclipse downloads section. If
you're new to Eclipse, start by downloading the
Eclipse SDK, then browse the various project pages to
find the useful tools and plugins that you need.


Oh, great. In other words, "read random stuff that you
can possibly navigate to via links here or maybe
somewhere else, and see if you can find clues to what
might be useful to you." Awesome.

Oh, and isn't this cool? The "JDT" (Java Development
Tools) download link takes me to the same place as the
"old Eclipse download page". That's exceedingly
useful. Where are these "Java development tools"? What
are they? Are they part of the base download or not?

I mean, jesus christ. I understand it's free and
everything, so I get what I get. But goddamnit if
you're going to put on a big public project with hopes
that lots of people will use it and get involved, why
in fuck's name do you have to crank up the nerd factor
to 11 and make it some kind of fucking puzzle for
potential users to decode?

[edit]
Oh wow. The "Search" feature is perfectly happy to
give me results that involve sending me to a site that
requires a login!!! I'm not sure I could come up with
something worse if I set out to do it with a healthy
budget of speed and whiskey.



Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/
Re: Interesting perpective from a ... frustrated ... newbie. [message #5785 is a reply to message #5765] Sat, 14 May 2005 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: bob.objfac.com

Good metric. All this person wanted was a big Download button. That's
all most people want.

We're going to be in another kind of fix when the various tools projects
"graduate" and want to start advertising their wares on the home page.
a) New users like this one won't want to see it. b) The tools projects
are not the exclusive providers of technology for Eclipse. Is the
website going to promote them and exclude all third-party contributors?

Bob Foster

Eclipse WebMaster wrote:
> I received this in my Inbox. Caution: contains foul language not
> suitable for children. Perhaps we could use this as a metric for the
> "newbie" actor:
>
>
> I just want to download something that I can use for
> Java/JSP development. Why for fuck's sake do those
> people make everything so goddamn confusing?
>
> quote:
> Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an
> open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in
> particular.
>
>
> Gee thanks, jackoff. That's a big help.
>
> quote:
> Welcome to the Eclipse downloads section. If
> you're new to Eclipse, start by downloading the
> Eclipse SDK, then browse the various project pages to
> find the useful tools and plugins that you need.
>
>
> Oh, great. In other words, "read random stuff that you
> can possibly navigate to via links here or maybe
> somewhere else, and see if you can find clues to what
> might be useful to you." Awesome.
>
> Oh, and isn't this cool? The "JDT" (Java Development
> Tools) download link takes me to the same place as the
> "old Eclipse download page". That's exceedingly
> useful. Where are these "Java development tools"? What
> are they? Are they part of the base download or not?
>
> I mean, jesus christ. I understand it's free and
> everything, so I get what I get. But goddamnit if
> you're going to put on a big public project with hopes
> that lots of people will use it and get involved, why
> in fuck's name do you have to crank up the nerd factor
> to 11 and make it some kind of fucking puzzle for
> potential users to decode?
>
> [edit]
> Oh wow. The "Search" feature is perfectly happy to
> give me results that involve sending me to a site that
> requires a login!!! I'm not sure I could come up with
> something worse if I set out to do it with a healthy
> budget of speed and whiskey.
>
>
>
> Discover Yahoo!
> Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/
Re: Interesting perpective from a ... frustrated ... newbie. [message #5803 is a reply to message #5765] Sat, 14 May 2005 17:43 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: js84.njit.edu

Hello,

I think this person, whomever he is, is spot on with his criticism.
There seems to be a lot on the site which uses a lot of words but does
not come around to saying much. For example, instead of the ambiguous
and trying-to-sound-cool-ness of

> Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an open extensible IDE
> for anything and nothing in particular.

You could say

> Eclipse is a platform for creating development environments for any
> programming language. Each of these environments is a Tool (Plug-in)
> for Eclipse.

Very straightforward and sucks the mystery out of how things work and
presents it for the user.

John Scanlan


Eclipse WebMaster wrote:
> I received this in my Inbox. Caution: contains foul language not
> suitable for children. Perhaps we could use this as a metric for the
> "newbie" actor:

> quote:
> Welcome to the Eclipse downloads section. If
> you're new to Eclipse, start by downloading the
> Eclipse SDK, then browse the various project pages to
> find the useful tools and plugins that you need.
>
>
> Oh, great. In other words, "read random stuff that you
> can possibly navigate to via links here or maybe
> somewhere else, and see if you can find clues to what
> might be useful to you." Awesome.
>
> Oh, and isn't this cool? The "JDT" (Java Development
> Tools) download link takes me to the same place as the
> "old Eclipse download page". That's exceedingly
> useful. Where are these "Java development tools"? What
> are they? Are they part of the base download or not?
Re: Interesting perpective from a ... frustrated ... newbie. [message #563067 is a reply to message #5765] Sat, 14 May 2005 17:32 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: bob.objfac.com

Good metric. All this person wanted was a big Download button. That's
all most people want.

We're going to be in another kind of fix when the various tools projects
"graduate" and want to start advertising their wares on the home page.
a) New users like this one won't want to see it. b) The tools projects
are not the exclusive providers of technology for Eclipse. Is the
website going to promote them and exclude all third-party contributors?

Bob Foster

Eclipse WebMaster wrote:
> I received this in my Inbox. Caution: contains foul language not
> suitable for children. Perhaps we could use this as a metric for the
> "newbie" actor:
>
>
> I just want to download something that I can use for
> Java/JSP development. Why for fuck's sake do those
> people make everything so goddamn confusing?
>
> quote:
> Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an
> open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in
> particular.
>
>
> Gee thanks, jackoff. That's a big help.
>
> quote:
> Welcome to the Eclipse downloads section. If
> you're new to Eclipse, start by downloading the
> Eclipse SDK, then browse the various project pages to
> find the useful tools and plugins that you need.
>
>
> Oh, great. In other words, "read random stuff that you
> can possibly navigate to via links here or maybe
> somewhere else, and see if you can find clues to what
> might be useful to you." Awesome.
>
> Oh, and isn't this cool? The "JDT" (Java Development
> Tools) download link takes me to the same place as the
> "old Eclipse download page". That's exceedingly
> useful. Where are these "Java development tools"? What
> are they? Are they part of the base download or not?
>
> I mean, jesus christ. I understand it's free and
> everything, so I get what I get. But goddamnit if
> you're going to put on a big public project with hopes
> that lots of people will use it and get involved, why
> in fuck's name do you have to crank up the nerd factor
> to 11 and make it some kind of fucking puzzle for
> potential users to decode?
>
> [edit]
> Oh wow. The "Search" feature is perfectly happy to
> give me results that involve sending me to a site that
> requires a login!!! I'm not sure I could come up with
> something worse if I set out to do it with a healthy
> budget of speed and whiskey.
>
>
>
> Discover Yahoo!
> Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/
Re: Interesting perpective from a ... frustrated ... newbie. [message #563104 is a reply to message #5765] Sat, 14 May 2005 17:43 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: js84.njit.edu

Hello,

I think this person, whomever he is, is spot on with his criticism.
There seems to be a lot on the site which uses a lot of words but does
not come around to saying much. For example, instead of the ambiguous
and trying-to-sound-cool-ness of

> Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an open extensible IDE
> for anything and nothing in particular.

You could say

> Eclipse is a platform for creating development environments for any
> programming language. Each of these environments is a Tool (Plug-in)
> for Eclipse.

Very straightforward and sucks the mystery out of how things work and
presents it for the user.

John Scanlan


Eclipse WebMaster wrote:
> I received this in my Inbox. Caution: contains foul language not
> suitable for children. Perhaps we could use this as a metric for the
> "newbie" actor:

> quote:
> Welcome to the Eclipse downloads section. If
> you're new to Eclipse, start by downloading the
> Eclipse SDK, then browse the various project pages to
> find the useful tools and plugins that you need.
>
>
> Oh, great. In other words, "read random stuff that you
> can possibly navigate to via links here or maybe
> somewhere else, and see if you can find clues to what
> might be useful to you." Awesome.
>
> Oh, and isn't this cool? The "JDT" (Java Development
> Tools) download link takes me to the same place as the
> "old Eclipse download page". That's exceedingly
> useful. Where are these "Java development tools"? What
> are they? Are they part of the base download or not?
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