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ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615270] Tue, 24 April 2007 21:15 Go to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 964
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Folks,

I've produced a dev build today (Tues April 24, 2007) for both the ECF
core features and the ECF Extras, which are hosted at OSUOSL.

The core build can be accessed at

http://www.eclipse.org/ecf/downloads.php
Update site: http://download.eclipse.org/technology/ecf/update

ECF Extras (including the new Skype Provider [1]) can be accessed at

http://ecf1.osuosl.org/
Update site: http://ecf1.osuosl.org/update

Note that the Skype provider is only currently tested with win32 and is
still in pre-release state.

Thanks,

Scott


[1] http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Skype_Provider
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615277 is a reply to message #615270] Wed, 25 April 2007 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eugene Kuleshov is currently offline Eugene Kuleshov
Messages: 505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
It is good to see the skype provider, but there are still lots of work
need to be done in the UI and the error handling.

First of all I think new Messages view is a big step back. Banner at
the top of the view and the borders around text widgets take way too
much useful space. Also, this view should allow provide more options for
arranging conversations. Here are few possibilities to explore:

-- allow to clone view (examples: Console, Search, History views)
-- allow to detach selected conversation tab into standalone window (and
remember such state)
-- allow to arrange conversations in splits panels instead of tabs (i.e.
using SashForm), which would allow to use screen real estate more
efficiently (and would work great in both horizontally and vertically
oriented Messages view)

UI for conversations on IRC, group collaboration and chat rooms need
to be unified within same Messages view.

Contacts view should have actions that currently only available from
ECF toolbar (i.e. to connect to some server)
Contacts view should indicate status (online, offline, etc on the view
icon).
After setting status to offline, view is loosing all the contacts and
you hace to manually reconnect to each server again
Behavior of the "Show offline contacts" checkbox is actually reversed

Errors in connection dialogs (i.e. on connect to XMPP server like
gmail.com) are not communicated to the user and you can only see them in
the stdout.

regards,
Eugene


Scott Lewis wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I've produced a dev build today (Tues April 24, 2007) for both the ECF
> core features and the ECF Extras, which are hosted at OSUOSL.
>
> The core build can be accessed at
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/ecf/downloads.php
> Update site: http://download.eclipse.org/technology/ecf/update
>
> ECF Extras (including the new Skype Provider [1]) can be accessed at
>
> http://ecf1.osuosl.org/
> Update site: http://ecf1.osuosl.org/update
>
> Note that the Skype provider is only currently tested with win32 and
> is still in pre-release state.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
> [1] http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Skype_Provider
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615283 is a reply to message #615277] Wed, 25 April 2007 07:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Remy Suen is currently offline Remy Suen
Messages: 462
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:11:22 -0400, Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
> First of all I think new Messages view is a big step back. Banner at
> the top of the view and the borders around text widgets take way too much
> useful space.

Could've told us before we made a release. :/

> -- allow to clone view (examples: Console, Search, History views)

Clone a conversation to do...? Unless you mean something like "New IM" and
then give a listing of all non-offline contacts to initiate a conversation
with.

> Behavior of the "Show offline contacts" checkbox is actually reversed

Whoops. I dropped the ball on this one I see. ;( Fixed in CVS HEAD.

Thanks Eugene, please file corresponding bugs into bugzilla (although as
you are aware, some of the points you listed already have bugs opened for
them).

Regards,
Rem
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615285 is a reply to message #615283] Wed, 25 April 2007 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eugene Kuleshov is currently offline Eugene Kuleshov
Messages: 505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Remy Suen wrote:
>> First of all I think new Messages view is a big step back. Banner at
>> the top of the view and the borders around text widgets take way too much
>> useful space.
>>
> Could've told us before we made a release. :/
>
How would I knew? There is no weekly dev builds or anything I could
play with...
>> -- allow to clone view (examples: Console, Search, History views)
>>
> Clone a conversation to do...? Unless you mean something like "New IM" and
> then give a listing of all non-offline contacts to initiate a conversation
> with.
>
No, just make another instance of the same Messages view. So, it can
be moved around, sticked to the different tab group or quickviews bar.
> Thanks Eugene, please file corresponding bugs into bugzilla (although as
> you are aware, some of the points you listed already have bugs opened for
> them).
>
I am sorry, but unfortunately I am out of time for few next weeks, so
I won't be able to deal with the bug reports.

regards,
Eugene
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615288 is a reply to message #615285] Wed, 25 April 2007 08:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Remy Suen is currently offline Remy Suen
Messages: 462
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:52:12 -0400, Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
> Remy Suen wrote:
>>> First of all I think new Messages view is a big step back. Banner at
>>> the top of the view and the borders around text widgets take way too
>>> much useful space.
>>>
>> Could've told us before we made a release. :/
>>
> How would I knew? There is no weekly dev builds or anything I could
> play with...

I guess release was a bad word to use. Just found it odd that you'd bring
it up now instead of when you first saw the screenshots and noted
brightness issues with the icons themselves. But I guess one needs to try
it out themselves before they notice these size problems.

Regards,
Rem
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615292 is a reply to message #615288] Wed, 25 April 2007 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eugene Kuleshov is currently offline Eugene Kuleshov
Messages: 505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Remy Suen wrote:
>> How would I knew? There is no weekly dev builds or anything I could
>> play with...
>>
> I guess release was a bad word to use. Just found it odd that you'd bring
> it up now instead of when you first saw the screenshots and noted
> brightness issues with the icons themselves. But I guess one needs to try
> it out themselves before they notice these size problems.
>
Sorry, but I reported issues with cyan icons after trying previous
build from ECF update site. I can't deduce everything from screnshots
and have to see how it fits into my own Eclipse workbench. For instance
with such UI and the tab group in my Workbench window I'd like to stick
this view to it has screen real estate for 2 lines of text in the chat
history and 2 lines of text in the new message entry field. Not usable
at all.

BTW, there is also something wrong with the Contacts view. After some
bouncing between online/offline it loose all the popup menus and I can't
even select anything in there.

regards,
Eugene
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #615296 is a reply to message #615277] Wed, 25 April 2007 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 964
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Eugene,

Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
>
> It is good to see the skype provider, but there are still lots of work
> need to be done in the UI and the error handling.
>
> First of all I think new Messages view is a big step back. Banner at
> the top of the view and the borders around text widgets take way too
> much useful space. Also, this view should allow provide more options for
> arranging conversations. Here are few possibilities to explore:
>
> -- allow to clone view (examples: Console, Search, History views)
> -- allow to detach selected conversation tab into standalone window (and
> remember such state)
> -- allow to arrange conversations in splits panels instead of tabs (i.e.
> using SashForm), which would allow to use screen real estate more
> efficiently (and would work great in both horizontally and vertically
> oriented Messages view)
>
> UI for conversations on IRC, group collaboration and chat rooms need to
> be unified within same Messages view.
>
> Contacts view should have actions that currently only available from
> ECF toolbar (i.e. to connect to some server)
> Contacts view should indicate status (online, offline, etc on the view
> icon).
> After setting status to offline, view is loosing all the contacts and
> you hace to manually reconnect to each server again
> Behavior of the "Show offline contacts" checkbox is actually reversed
>
> Errors in connection dialogs (i.e. on connect to XMPP server like
> gmail.com) are not communicated to the user and you can only see them in
> the stdout.


Eugene, please file bug/enhancement requests for things you haven't
already done so as Remy suggested.

One comment though...some of the above are matters of taste/design (e.g.
split panels rather than tabs, spacing of messaging view) and although
they generally seem like fine ideas, they may not match others design
sense. As seemingly with most matters UI, one person's excellent design
is another person's ugly POS.

So I would appreciate other people's input on Eugene's suggestions above
(on this newsgroup and associated bugs when filed):

1) Messages view: What are other people's opinions about the
spacing/presentation of the Messages view? Any other suggestions?
AFAIK, Eugene's comments about this don't yet have a bug associated with
them.

2) Tabs vs. split panels? Again, what are other people's 'view' of this
choice? AFAIK, this also doesn't yet have a bug.

3) Unify chat rooms within Messages view. There are some differences
between chat rooms and IM...e.g. multiple members, etc. Although a
single presentation layer for IM and chat could certainly be designed.
The underlying
API addition needed here is represented by this bug:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=182474

4) Error dialogs...Eugene's observation isn't quite correct...we do
report connect failure through error message dialog, but it's not at all
gracefully reported (no stack trace, etc). This sort of begs the
general question: how do people want to see asynchronous errors? In
error dialogs, error view, log, some other view, case-by-case basis,
all, etc?

And, of course, the easiest way to get new ideas in place most rapidly
is to offer code contributions in addition to ideas or criticism.

Scott
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #618287 is a reply to message #615296] Wed, 25 April 2007 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eugene Kuleshov is currently offline Eugene Kuleshov
Messages: 505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Scott Lewis wrote:
> One comment though...some of the above are matters of taste/design
> (e.g. split panels rather than tabs, spacing of messaging view) and
> although they generally seem like fine ideas, they may not match
> others design sense. As seemingly with most matters UI, one person's
> excellent design is another person's ugly POS.
I wasn't actually suggesting to provide only splitted view, but rather
have it as one of the presentation options, that probably fits best with
horizontally oriented Messages view (i.e. when it would sit in the same
tab group as Problems view); or when Messages view is vertically
oriented, say when in Fast view mode.
> 3) Unify chat rooms within Messages view. There are some differences
> between chat rooms and IM...e.g. multiple members, etc. Although a
> single presentation layer for IM and chat could certainly be designed.
> The underlying
> API addition needed here is represented by this bug:
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=182474
The only difference is actually in the panel layout for particular
type of conversation. So, provider could have its own panel, but still
reuse space in the Messages view (same design is used for standard
Outline, History, Search and Synchronize views)
> 4) Error dialogs...Eugene's observation isn't quite correct...we do
> report connect failure through error message dialog, but it's not at
> all gracefully reported (no stack trace, etc). This sort of begs the
> general question: how do people want to see asynchronous errors? In
> error dialogs, error view, log, some other view, case-by-case basis,
> all, etc?
Maybe you report some errors, but what I observed is when I typed
connection info for XMPP provider incorrectly (for got to add @gmail.com
after my id) dialog Finish button had no effect and I didn't noticed any
error reported on the dialog, but there was some stack traces in the
system out.

regards,
Eugene
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #618288 is a reply to message #618287] Wed, 25 April 2007 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 964
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Eugene,

Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
<stuff deleted>
> Maybe you report some errors, but what I observed is when I typed
> connection info for XMPP provider incorrectly (for got to add @gmail.com
> after my id) dialog Finish button had no effect and I didn't noticed any
> error reported on the dialog, but there was some stack traces in the
> system out.


A new bug report with the stack trace would be appreciated, as I've not
seen this.

Scott
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #618289 is a reply to message #618288] Wed, 25 April 2007 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eugene Kuleshov is currently offline Eugene Kuleshov
Messages: 505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Scott Lewis wrote:
> Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
> <stuff deleted>
>> Maybe you report some errors, but what I observed is when I typed
>> connection info for XMPP provider incorrectly (for got to add
>> @gmail.com after my id) dialog Finish button had no effect and I
>> didn't noticed any error reported on the dialog, but there was some
>> stack traces in the system out.
> A new bug report with the stack trace would be appreciated, as I've
> not seen this.
Sorry, I already removed ECF plugins from my workspace.

regards,
Eugene
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #618290 is a reply to message #618289] Wed, 25 April 2007 17:50 Go to previous message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 964
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
> Scott Lewis wrote:
>> Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
>> <stuff deleted>
>>> Maybe you report some errors, but what I observed is when I typed
>>> connection info for XMPP provider incorrectly (for got to add
>>> @gmail.com after my id) dialog Finish button had no effect and I
>>> didn't noticed any error reported on the dialog, but there was some
>>> stack traces in the system out.
>> A new bug report with the stack trace would be appreciated, as I've
>> not seen this.
> Sorry, I already removed ECF plugins from my workspace.


Well, then we'll take your suggestions with the appropriate seriousness,
since you used it so thoroughly.

Scott
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #618291 is a reply to message #618290] Wed, 25 April 2007 17:01 Go to previous message
Eugene Kuleshov is currently offline Eugene Kuleshov
Messages: 505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Scott Lewis wrote:
>> Sorry, I already removed ECF plugins from my workspace.
> Well, then we'll take your suggestions with the appropriate
> seriousness, since you used it so thoroughly.
Sure. Just expect same seriousness from me (and probably other users)
when I'll be trying ECF next time.

regards,
Eugene

PS: the first impression is that what sticks... and one have to work
really hard to change first bad impression.
Re: ECF dev build 4.24.2007 [message #618292 is a reply to message #618287] Wed, 25 April 2007 17:36 Go to previous message
Remy Suen is currently offline Remy Suen
Messages: 462
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:11:46 -0400, Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
> Maybe you report some errors, but what I observed is when I typed
> connection info for XMPP provider incorrectly (for got to add @gmail.com
> after my id) dialog Finish button had no effect and I didn't noticed any
> error reported on the dialog, but there was some stack traces in the
> system out.

Hi Eugene, I can duplicate this. If we fail to create an ID given your
user name information, we are currently merely returning false in our
wizard code (which would explain why it is still 'up' despite the fact
that nothing seems to have happened) and printing the stack trace.

Will get to this ASAP, thanks for the report.

Regards,
Rem
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