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[QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593563] Mon, 09 January 2006 14:09 Go to next message
me is currently offline me
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello,

I am currently preparing an article about ECF for a German magazine.

I would appreciate it if you could answer or comment the following
questions:

* Is it correct that JmDNS is now a part of ECF and that this is
the reason why it can't be downloaded from http://ecf1.osuosl.org
any more?

* Does the JmDNS provider start its own mdns daemon, or is the
provider only responsible for publishing new 'presence' service
types.

* I for instance am running Avahi, which is a LGPLed Zeroconf
implementation, on many of my hosts and it seems that it may
at least cause some problems if there are running more than
one dnsd daemons on a single host.

* If one opens a shared editor, would someone other be able to
see the position of the cursor of each other (i.e. the source
code line where someone currently edits the code)? For example
in Sobalipse it is possible that each participant in an editing
party chooses a different color to identify his changes etc.

MateEdit or SubEthaEdit are sharing this concept of different
colors...

--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / With kind regards
DAn.I.El S. Haischt

Spammers, please please send any mail to:
Daniel S. Haischt <me_c@daniel.stefan.haischt.name>

Want a complete signature??? Type at a shell prompt:
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Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593582 is a reply to message #593563] Mon, 09 January 2006 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
me is currently offline me
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
s/Pleas give me some/Please give me some insights/

Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am currently preparing an article about ECF for a German magazine.
>
> I would appreciate it if you could answer or comment the following
> questions:
>
> * Is it correct that JmDNS is now a part of ECF and that this is
> the reason why it can't be downloaded from http://ecf1.osuosl.org
> any more?
>
> * Does the JmDNS provider start its own mdns daemon, or is the
> provider only responsible for publishing new 'presence' service
> types.
>
> * I for instance am running Avahi, which is a LGPLed Zeroconf
> implementation, on many of my hosts and it seems that it may
> at least cause some problems if there are running more than
> one dnsd daemons on a single host.
>
> * If one opens a shared editor, would someone other be able to
> see the position of the cursor of each other (i.e. the source
> code line where someone currently edits the code)? For example
> in Sobalipse it is possible that each participant in an editing
> party chooses a different color to identify his changes etc.
>
> MateEdit or SubEthaEdit are sharing this concept of different
> colors...
>
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593595 is a reply to message #593563] Mon, 09 January 2006 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 966
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Daniel,

Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am currently preparing an article about ECF for a German magazine.
>
> I would appreciate it if you could answer or comment the following
> questions:
>
> * Is it correct that JmDNS is now a part of ECF and that this is
> the reason why it can't be downloaded from http://ecf1.osuosl.org
> any more?

Yes.

>
> * Does the JmDNS provider start its own mdns daemon, or is the
> provider only responsible for publishing new 'presence' service
> types.

It does start its own Jmdns 'daemon' (actually a just set of threads
which send/receive updates using bonjour/zeroconf protocol...not a full
separate process...it runs within the Eclipse VM process).

>
> * I for instance am running Avahi, which is a LGPLed Zeroconf
> implementation, on many of my hosts and it seems that it may
> at least cause some problems if there are running more than
> one dnsd daemons on a single host.

This may be true...frankly I haven't tested the ECF JmDNS provider
alongside other zeroconf implementations. For example, I can easily
imagine port conflicts, etc. Unfortunately I'm not sure how JmDNS
recovers from that etc.

>
> * If one opens a shared editor, would someone other be able to
> see the position of the cursor of each other (i.e. the source
> code line where someone currently edits the code)? For example
> in Sobalipse it is possible that each participant in an editing
> party chooses a different color to identify his changes etc.

The shared editor functionality in the ECF collab example plugin is very
rudimentary (currently). The only things that are communicated are
explicit 'open editor on resource X' and 'open editor on resource X and
select <start,offset>'.

This doesn't mean, of course that other messages to represent other
sharing events could/won't be added to the collab example...or other
people may very well (hopefully) add their own messages...e.g. cursor
position, etc. The messages from various participants can be
identified, and so this would allow different colors, etc to be used for
messages from different users.

>
> MateEdit or SubEthaEdit are sharing this concept of different
> colors...

Yeah actually there have been a lot of shared editor systems that used
colors to represent different users (or different cursor shapes, or
both, etc). MateEdit and SubEthaEdit are just new instances of that
concept.

In any event, currently the shared editor functionality in the example
collab app is not this full but it certainly has the potential to have
these features (and many others), and people build their own editors and
depend upon ECF for sharing state/sending messages.

Thanks,

Scott
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593610 is a reply to message #593595] Tue, 10 January 2006 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
me is currently offline me
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello Scott,

Scott Lewis wrote:
>
>
> It does start its own Jmdns 'daemon' (actually a just set of threads
> which send/receive updates using bonjour/zeroconf protocol...not a full
> separate process...it runs within the Eclipse VM process).
>
>>
>> * I for instance am running Avahi, which is a LGPLed Zeroconf
>> implementation, on many of my hosts and it seems that it may
>> at least cause some problems if there are running more than
>> one dnsd daemons on a single host.
>
>
> This may be true...frankly I haven't tested the ECF JmDNS provider
> alongside other zeroconf implementations. For example, I can easily
> imagine port conflicts, etc. Unfortunately I'm not sure how JmDNS
> recovers from that etc.

Is the Zeroconf-API within ECF designed to abstract the actual Zeroconf
implementation? For example would one be able to plug-in its own
Zeroconf implementation which may be based for example on a JNI
interface to Avahi?


--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / With kind regards
DAn.I.El S. Haischt

Spammers, please please send any mail to:
Daniel S. Haischt <me_c@daniel.stefan.haischt.name>

Want a complete signature??? Type at a shell prompt:
$ > finger -l haischt@daniel.stefan.haischt.name
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593620 is a reply to message #593610] Tue, 10 January 2006 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 966
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Daniel,

For some reason I can't seem to post to the newsgroup this am, which is
why I'm only sending this to you directly. Otherwise I would also post
to the newsgroup.


Daniel S. Haischt wrote:

>Hello Scott,
>
>Scott Lewis wrote:
>
>
>>It does start its own Jmdns 'daemon' (actually a just set of threads
>>which send/receive updates using bonjour/zeroconf protocol...not a full
>>separate process...it runs within the Eclipse VM process).
>>
>>
>>
>>> * I for instance am running Avahi, which is a LGPLed Zeroconf
>>> implementation, on many of my hosts and it seems that it may
>>> at least cause some problems if there are running more than
>>> one dnsd daemons on a single host.
>>>
>>>
>>This may be true...frankly I haven't tested the ECF JmDNS provider
>>alongside other zeroconf implementations. For example, I can easily
>>imagine port conflicts, etc. Unfortunately I'm not sure how JmDNS
>>recovers from that etc.
>>
>>
>
>Is the Zeroconf-API within ECF designed to abstract the actual Zeroconf
>implementation?
>
Yes, exactly so. There is an abstract API plugin:
org.eclipse.ecf.discovery that is independent even of zeroconf/bonjour
(i.e. it could be implemented by other discovery protocols). The
zeroconf implementation is provided by org.eclipse.ecf.provider.jmdns.

>For example would one be able to plug-in its own
>Zeroconf implementation which may be based for example on a JNI
>interface to Avahi?
>
>
Yes. Just create another plugin that implements
org.eclipse.ecf.discovery API and uses Avahi interface as you say.

I had contemplated doing this with the Apple Bonjour SDK libraries, but
the jmdns implementation was more expedient.

Scott
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593638 is a reply to message #593620] Tue, 10 January 2006 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
me is currently offline me
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello,

Scott Lewis wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> For some reason I can't seem to post to the newsgroup this am, which is
> why I'm only sending this to you directly. Otherwise I would also post
> to the newsgroup.

Hummm I got this message through the newsgroup ...

>
> Yes, exactly so. There is an abstract API plugin:
> org.eclipse.ecf.discovery that is independent even of zeroconf/bonjour
> (i.e. it could be implemented by other discovery protocols). The
> zeroconf implementation is provided by org.eclipse.ecf.provider.jmdns.

This yields to another question/issue I was poking around...

I did completly re-install Eclipse (3.1.1) and did install ECF via
the provided update site. Unfortunatly I was not able to spot the...

-> org.eclipse.ecf.provider.jmdns

.... provider. I just have JMS, XMPP, and IRC ... What could be the
reason for this issue. I remember in 0.5.4 or 0.5.3 the JmDNS provider
was installed along with the other packages.

>
> I had contemplated doing this with the Apple Bonjour SDK libraries, but
> the jmdns implementation was more expedient.
>

Actually at the time, there are no Java bindings for Avahi - only some
Mono bindings. But I was thinking to create some Java bindings using
SWIG.

--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / With kind regards
DAn.I.El S. Haischt

Spammers, please please send any mail to:
Daniel S. Haischt <me_c@daniel.stefan.haischt.name>

Want a complete signature??? Type at a shell prompt:
$ > finger -l haischt@daniel.stefan.haischt.name
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593651 is a reply to message #593638] Tue, 10 January 2006 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 966
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Daniel,

Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
<stuff deleted>

> This yields to another question/issue I was poking around...
>
> I did completly re-install Eclipse (3.1.1) and did install ECF via
> the provided update site. Unfortunatly I was not able to spot the...
>
> -> org.eclipse.ecf.provider.jmdns
>
> ... provider. I just have JMS, XMPP, and IRC ... What could be the
> reason for this issue. I remember in 0.5.4 or 0.5.3 the JmDNS provider
> was installed along with the other packages.

This was just a mistake in creating the 0.5.5 distribution. I've added
the JmDNS 0.5.5 feature to the list available at the ECF update site:

http://download.eclipse.org/technology/ecf/update/

So you should be able to get to/install the jmdns 0.5.5 feature from
there now. If you are still having problems seeing it from within the
update then please just use the zip install from here for now:

http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/download.php?file=/technolo gy/ecf/org.eclipse.ecf.provider.jmdns-0.5.5.S20051221.zip

The 0.6.0 release upcoming probably this weekend or early next week will
have this fixed.

Thanks for the report...sorry to all for the trouble.

>
>
>>I had contemplated doing this with the Apple Bonjour SDK libraries, but
>>the jmdns implementation was more expedient.
>>
>
>
> Actually at the time, there are no Java bindings for Avahi - only some
> Mono bindings. But I was thinking to create some Java bindings using
> SWIG.

If you do this, please coordinate with us (if you intend to contribute
the work in a form that we would be able to use). I can/will create a
plugin wrapper for it very quickly/easily.

Thanks,

Scott
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593664 is a reply to message #593651] Tue, 10 January 2006 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
me is currently offline me
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello,

Scott Lewis wrote:
>
> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/ecf/update/
>
> So you should be able to get to/install the jmdns 0.5.5 feature from
> there now. If you are still having problems seeing it from within the
> update then please just use the zip install from here for now:

I'll try the update site.

> The 0.6.0 release upcoming probably this weekend or early next week will
> have this fixed.

As mentioned earlier, I am currently writing an articlke about ECF for
a German magazine. Will there be any important new features in 0.6.0?

>
> Thanks for the report...sorry to all for the trouble.

No problem!

>
>
> If you do this, please coordinate with us (if you intend to contribute
> the work in a form that we would be able to use). I can/will create a
> plugin wrapper for it very quickly/easily.
>

Ok!

--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / With kind regards
DAn.I.El S. Haischt

Spammers, please please send any mail to:
Daniel S. Haischt <me_c@daniel.stefan.haischt.name>

Want a complete signature??? Type at a shell prompt:
$ > finger -l haischt@daniel.stefan.haischt.name
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593675 is a reply to message #593664] Tue, 10 January 2006 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 966
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Daniel,

Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Scott Lewis wrote:
>
>>http://download.eclipse.org/technology/ecf/update/
>>
>>So you should be able to get to/install the jmdns 0.5.5 feature from
>>there now. If you are still having problems seeing it from within the
>>update then please just use the zip install from here for now:
>
>
> I'll try the update site.
>
>
>>The 0.6.0 release upcoming probably this weekend or early next week will
>>have this fixed.
>
>
> As mentioned earlier, I am currently writing an articlke about ECF for
> a German magazine. Will there be any important new features in 0.6.0?

Well, it depends upon what you mean by important :). There are a number
of simplifying and clarifying API changes...from my chair these will be
the most important things in 0.6.0. For example, I've just added a new
extension point: sharedObjectFactory extension point to allow other
plugins to define/create their own shared objects and allow other
plugins to access those factories via


ISharedObject so =
org.eclipse.ecf.core.SharedObjectFactory.getDefault().create SharedObject( <factory
name>);

There will be a number of small bug fixes, and a couple of minor feature
additions, as well as a fix for a jmdns shutdown hang problem that was
reported by Bill Joy in a previous posting.

Also, at 0.6.0 (hopefully) or shortly afterward we'll be making the
Yahoo IM provider plugin available via the OSU OSL site. This will
probably be the most important user-level feature addition in 0.6.0.

Not too much else in this release WRT user-level features. It's mostly
about API fixes/changes/additions/hardening.

Thanks,

Scott


>
>
>>Thanks for the report...sorry to all for the trouble.
>
>
> No problem!
>
>
>>
>>If you do this, please coordinate with us (if you intend to contribute
>>the work in a form that we would be able to use). I can/will create a
>>plugin wrapper for it very quickly/easily.
>>
>
>
> Ok!
>
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593692 is a reply to message #593675] Tue, 10 January 2006 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
me is currently offline me
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello,

Scott Lewis wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Scott Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> http://download.eclipse.org/technology/ecf/update/
>>>
>>> So you should be able to get to/install the jmdns 0.5.5 feature from
>>> there now. If you are still having problems seeing it from within the
>>> update then please just use the zip install from here for now:
>>

Just a short note. As mentioned earlier, it would be nice if one could
easily choose between different Zeroconf implementations. Actually Avahi
does not contain Java bindings, but Avahi can be accessed via DBUS. DBUS
has some Java bindings...

--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / With kind regards
DAn.I.El S. Haischt

Spammers, please please send any mail to:
Daniel S. Haischt <me_c@daniel.stefan.haischt.name>

Want a complete signature??? Type at a shell prompt:
$ > finger -l haischt@daniel.stefan.haischt.name
Re: [QUESTION] Pleas give me some [message #593704 is a reply to message #593692] Wed, 11 January 2006 00:21 Go to previous message
Scott Lewis is currently offline Scott Lewis
Messages: 966
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Daniel,

Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
<stuff deleted>
>
> Just a short note. As mentioned earlier, it would be nice if one could
> easily choose between different Zeroconf implementations. Actually Avahi
> does not contain Java bindings, but Avahi can be accessed via DBUS. DBUS
> has some Java bindings...

With mutiple ECF provider implementations of the
org.eclipse.ecf.discovery API it would be very easy to choose between
them at runtime.

Regrettably, even if we had the time resources to do so we can't
realistically do alternative implementations for some of these zeroconf
impls, as their APIs and libraries may very well be commercially
licensed...and the ECF project does not have resources sufficient to
purchase licenses for API/lib use.

But if some of you folks out there would like to build such
providers...you can/could then license them in any way you choose
(commercially, etc). There is no requirement that your implementations
of ECF APIs be open source if that's not your business model.

Scott
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