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icon13.gif  Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557388] Tue, 07 September 2010 09:10 Go to next message
No real name is currently offline No real nameFriend
Messages: 1
Registered: September 2010
Junior Member
I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all. I extremely dislike working with it.

I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product, can somebody explain to me what is so great about it?

Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its shadow. Unfortunately i have to work with Eclipse because of some (very smart) management decisions, but i dislike it every single day. And before you start.... yes, i have given it a fair chance, since i had to work with it anyway.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557422 is a reply to message #557388] Tue, 07 September 2010 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
Messages: 3487
Registered: July 2009
Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 2010.09.07 3:10, droopcat wrote:
> I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at
> all. I extremely dislike working with it.
>
> I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product,
> can somebody explain to me what is so great about it?
>
> Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its
> shadow. Unfortunately i have to work with Eclipse because of some (very
> smart) management decisions, but i dislike it every single day. And
> before you start.... yes, i have given it a fair chance, since i had to
> work with it anyway.

I work with Eclipse everyday too and don't share your opinion. Maybe you
should look for a more intelligent employer with a longer, more faithful
tongue that reaches all the way to Redmond?

Seriously, Eclipse isn't the same thing as Visual Studio. It's not
produced by a monolithic company that imposes cradle-to-grave decisions
on what development to their platform entails (and what it will not entail).

Eclipse is developed by a world-wide community who aren't specifically
remunerated for this. Unlike VS, it supports and targets nearly all
possible platforms.

Most of us are here in this forum to give back to others. We've been
using Eclipse for a very long time and don't share your "born yesterday"
attitude. When we've got a beef, we find a work-around and/or report a
bug. Constructively.

I too have experienced inconveniences working with Eclipse, but it would
never occur to me that barfing all over it in a forum of dedicated users
would gain me a sympathetic ear.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:32] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557443 is a reply to message #557422] Tue, 07 September 2010 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexander Grosse is currently offline Alexander GrosseFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2010
Junior Member
Oh my god...

how can you compare eclipse to visual studio ???

Compare it to net beans if you want to, but i think those two are the only ones of its kind !!!

And a big fact - It is open source, and offers a lot more then visu... no, i wont say the name - its not even worth mentioning in the same sentence..

Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557481 is a reply to message #557388] Tue, 07 September 2010 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deepak Azad is currently offline Deepak AzadFriend
Messages: 545
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On 9/7/2010 2:40 PM, droopca wrote:
> I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product,
> can somebody explain to me what is so great about it?
Well.. a lot of us 'love' Eclipse :)

Still what exactly did you dislike in Eclipse or found inconvenient?
What do you use it for? What bugs you faced? We also love bug reports,
file one if you encounter one - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/ - just
provide us enough 'details' to fix the problem.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:29] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557560 is a reply to message #557388] Wed, 08 September 2010 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Harley is currently offline Walter HarleyFriend
Messages: 847
Registered: July 2009
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<droopcat> wrote in message news:i64vil$kak$1@build.eclipse.org...
>I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at
>all. I extremely dislike working with it.
>
> I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product, can
> somebody explain to me what is so great about it?

Well, for one, Visual Studio's ability to edit and navigate Java code (or
any other language that Microsoft doesn't sell) is, er, "limited". As is
its ability to build for, or run on, any platform other than Windows.

That said, I've worked with (and helped develop) each of them, and
personally I find that I prefer Eclipse, even disregarding the language and
platform differences. It doesn't try to embed itself in my OS; it doesn't
crash my computer as often; and I find the code navigation more intuitive
than VS's. Neither is perfect, and they serve very different communities
and address different goals.

One difference that you might find interesting: with Eclipse, if there's a
problem that bugs you or a feature you need, you have the ability to fix it
yourself. With VS, even if you could get the source code, that would be
illegal.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:29] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557695 is a reply to message #557388] Wed, 08 September 2010 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Kerber is currently offline David KerberFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
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In article <i64vil$kak$1@build.eclipse.org>, droopcat says...
>
> I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all. I extremely dislike working with it.
>
> I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product, can somebody explain to me what is so great about it?
>
> Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its shadow. Unfortunately i have to work with Eclipse because of some (very smart) management decisions, but i dislike it every single day. And before you start.... yes, i have given it a fair chance, since i had to work with it anyway.

I can agree with "not intuitive", but not the rest of it. It's been
quite stable for me, and no bugs that I can recall running into.

I run Eclipse for Java development, Visual Studio for VB, and Delphi,
and IMO they're all pretty good at what they do, but are quite different
in style. I'd say VS is the least stable of the 3 (it definitely
crashes more than the others, though none of them do so very often), but
probably the most intuitive. Delphi is definitely the least intuitive.

D

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:29] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557736 is a reply to message #557695] Wed, 08 September 2010 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
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Intuition is primarily an illusion. It's ingrained expectation based
entirely on what's happened in the past. What's unintuitive today,
might well be intuitive tomorrow, so much so that anything else seems
unintuitive. Like beauty, it lies in the eye of the beholder.


David Kerber wrote:
> In article <i64vil$kak$1@build.eclipse.org>, droopcat says...
>
>> I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all. I extremely dislike working with it.
>>
>> I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product, can somebody explain to me what is so great about it?
>>
>> Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its shadow. Unfortunately i have to work with Eclipse because of some (very smart) management decisions, but i dislike it every single day. And before you start.... yes, i have given it a fair chance, since i had to work with it anyway.
>>
>
> I can agree with "not intuitive", but not the rest of it. It's been
> quite stable for me, and no bugs that I can recall running into.
>
> I run Eclipse for Java development, Visual Studio for VB, and Delphi,
> and IMO they're all pretty good at what they do, but are quite different
> in style. I'd say VS is the least stable of the 3 (it definitely
> crashes more than the others, though none of them do so very often), but
> probably the most intuitive. Delphi is definitely the least intuitive.
>
> D
>

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Intuition is primarily an illusion.&nbsp; It's ingrained expectation based
entirely on what's happened in the past.&nbsp; What's unintuitive today,
might well be intuitive tomorrow, so much so that anything else seems
unintuitive. Like beauty, it lies in the eye of the beholder.<br>
<br>
<br>
David Kerber wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:MPG.26f1697590eeaf639896ac@news.eclipse.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:i64vil$kak$1@build.eclipse.org">&lt;i64vil$kak$1@build.eclipse.org&gt;</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:droopcat">droopcat</a> says...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all. I extremely dislike working with it.

I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product, can somebody explain to me what is so great about it?

Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its shadow. Unfortunately i have to work with Eclipse because of some (very smart) management decisions, but i dislike it every single day. And before you start.... yes, i have given it a fair chance, since i had to work with it anyway.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I can agree with "not intuitive", but not the rest of it. It's been
quite stable for me, and no bugs that I can recall running into.

I run Eclipse for Java development, Visual Studio for VB, and Delphi,
and IMO they're all pretty good at what they do, but are quite different
in style. I'd say VS is the least stable of the 3 (it definitely
crashes more than the others, though none of them do so very often), but
probably the most intuitive. Delphi is definitely the least intuitive.

D
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--------------020904010903010603000409--

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:32] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557800 is a reply to message #557388] Thu, 09 September 2010 00:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sasha is currently offline sashaFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Ok I'll take the bait.
Initially when I started using eclipse it annoyed me greatly and was buggy
too. After fighting with it for a few days your brain learns to avoid
certain usage patterns that lead you to those mines. Als,o you learn to do
eclipse -clean etc., learn to have multiple eclipse installs and not
download plugins into your dev environment which you need to absolutely
work. I have a plugin sandbox install which I use to test out different
plugins etc.,
Every time a new release comes out I don't auto-update. I test it out and
slowly migrate my code into it. I cannot afford to have my system blowup in
the middle of doing something.
Eclipse does indeed work very well, when you get used to it, learn about its
extensibility and that you can get it to do whatever you want.
If you proceed cautiously and learn the patterns of behavoir -you will learn
to like it.
But it does require an initial investment of time.


<droopcat> wrote in message news:i64vil$kak$1@build.eclipse.org...
>I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at
>all. I extremely dislike working with it.
>
> I can't believe so many people seem to support and like this product, can
> somebody explain to me what is so great about it?
>
> Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its
> shadow. Unfortunately i have to work with Eclipse because of some (very
> smart) management decisions, but i dislike it every single day. And before
> you start.... yes, i have given it a fair chance, since i had to work with
> it anyway.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:30] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #557928 is a reply to message #557736] Thu, 09 September 2010 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Kerber is currently offline David KerberFriend
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
In article <i68aj0$apv$1@build.eclipse.org>, Ed.Merks says...
>
> Intuition is primarily an illusion. It's ingrained expectation based
> entirely on what's happened in the past. What's unintuitive today,
> might well be intuitive tomorrow, so much so that anything else seems
> unintuitive. Like beauty, it lies in the eye of the beholder.

Agreed. And with software, it means that commands are where you expect
to find them, and that things work the way you expect. Eclipse didn't
quite meet that definition when I first tried it, though it was easy to
learn by playing with it.

D

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:33] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #558435 is a reply to message #557928] Sun, 12 September 2010 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
donescamillo Missing name is currently offline donescamillo Missing nameFriend
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2010
Junior Member
I installed eclipse helios the other day, created an empty project, try to close the IDE and it crashed, just out of the box.
On top of all this I cant search for files everywhere, only in workspaces.
I wonder sometimes how someone who is designing some piece of software ( and an IDE used by many, no less) can miss implementing such a basic feature
And I found some plug-in that was supposed to search anywhere and it could even start
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #558575 is a reply to message #558435] Mon, 13 September 2010 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Comments below.

donescamillo wrote:
> I installed eclipse helios the other day, created an empty project,
> try to close the IDE and it crashed, just out of the box.
What type of project? What does "crashed" mean exactly?
>
> On top of all this I cant search for files everywhere, only in workspaces.
Yes, search is designed to search the resources in your workspace. It's
not a file system explorer...
> I wonder sometimes how someone who is designing some piece of software
> ( and an IDE used by many, no less) can miss implementing such a basic
> feature
One might imagine the OS itself would provide such a basic feature.
> And I found some plug-in that was supposed to search anywhere and it
> could even start
We should guess what the plugin is and take responsibility for it?
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #559546 is a reply to message #558435] Fri, 17 September 2010 06:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Harley is currently offline Walter HarleyFriend
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news:i6jakc$uc6$1@build.eclipse.org...
>I installed eclipse helios the other day, created an empty project, try to
>close the IDE and it crashed, just out of the box.
> On top of all this I cant search for files everywhere, only in workspaces.
> I wonder sometimes how someone who is designing some piece of software (
> and an IDE used by many, no less) can miss implementing such a basic
> feature

Indeed. What a strange thing, that an IDE used by so many doesn't have such
a basic feature. It's almost as if that feature is not actually necessary
for all those people.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:30] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #559552 is a reply to message #559546] Fri, 17 September 2010 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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It's almost ironic!

Walter Harley wrote:
> "donescamillo" <donescamillo> wrote in message
> news:i6jakc$uc6$1@build.eclipse.org...
>
>> I installed eclipse helios the other day, created an empty project, try to
>> close the IDE and it crashed, just out of the box.
>> On top of all this I cant search for files everywhere, only in workspaces.
>> I wonder sometimes how someone who is designing some piece of software (
>> and an IDE used by many, no less) can miss implementing such a basic
>> feature
>>
>
> Indeed. What a strange thing, that an IDE used by so many doesn't have such
> a basic feature. It's almost as if that feature is not actually necessary
> for all those people.
>
>
>

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It's almost ironic!<br>
<br>
Walter Harley wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:i6v1rv$fkh$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"donescamillo" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:donescamillo">&lt;donescamillo&gt;</a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:i6jakc$uc6$1@build.eclipse.org">news:i6jakc$uc6$1@build.eclipse.org</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I installed eclipse helios the other day, created an empty project, try to
close the IDE and it crashed, just out of the box.
On top of all this I cant search for files everywhere, only in workspaces.
I wonder sometimes how someone who is designing some piece of software (
and an IDE used by many, no less) can miss implementing such a basic
feature
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Indeed. What a strange thing, that an IDE used by so many doesn't have such
a basic feature. It's almost as if that feature is not actually necessary
for all those people.


</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--------------070707000106000008060902--

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:31] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #640764 is a reply to message #557388] Tue, 23 November 2010 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lyle Z is currently offline Lyle ZFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: January 2010
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Quote:

I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all. I extremely dislike working with it.



I've had similar problems with Helios, so I reverted to Ganymede. It never gave me any problems to speak of. Try that. Not sure what happened with the Helios release.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #640766 is a reply to message #640764] Tue, 23 November 2010 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
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Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 2010.11.22 22:05, Lyle wrote:
> Quote:
>> I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive
>> at all. I extremely dislike working with it.
>
>
> I've had similar problems with Helios, so I reverted to Ganymede. It
> never gave me any problems to speak of. Try that. Not sure what happened
> with the Helios release.

Helios WTP has changed some things, but I've had no stability issues
using it. I use Helios on Windows and Linux with no trouble. (And even
more since when this thread first started almost three months ago.)

I'm still using Galileo specifically for Dynamic Web Projects until I
stop being too lazy to figure out how Helios has changed the JEE Module
Dependencies thing. And for Android development where Helios isn't
recommended yet.

It is true that Galileo has always been rock-solid for me, but I don't
see Helios as unstable. I've had no bad experiences with it.

Anyway, I couldn't disagree more with the troll who started this thread.
I think Eclipse deserves more than an afternoon romp before being condemned.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #641708 is a reply to message #557388] Fri, 26 November 2010 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Character7  is currently offline Character7 Friend
Messages: 1
Registered: November 2010
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I read a few of the post about Eclipse blowing, and a lot more about it being the be all end all. I have to admit I have commited a large amount of time exploring all of the options on many different levels. I decided that Eclipse would be my first serious exploration into Java development along side with my education in web design. I would not be adverse to any response to my decision, because I intend to invest a lot of time learning Java from the bottom up using this program and any help that I can receive in learning would definately assist my curve.

Thank you for your time everyone.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #660155 is a reply to message #557422] Thu, 17 March 2011 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AvRR  is currently offline AvRR Friend
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2011
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I have to agree with the OP that Eclipse is "buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all." (and don't forget - its also extremely Slooooooow)

I used eclipse for a few days and the crashes alone put me off so much that I am never ever going to use it and try to push Netbeans.

Russell Bateman wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 07:24
On 2010.09.07 3:10, droopcat wrote:
Seriously, Eclipse isn't the same thing as Visual Studio. It's not
produced by a monolithic company that imposes cradle-to-grave decisions
on what development to their platform entails (and what it will not entail).

Eclipse is developed by a world-wide community who aren't specifically
remunerated for this. Unlike VS, it supports and targets nearly all
possible platforms.


That should not be an excuse to make it buggy, unstable and non-intuitive, and unfortunately Eclipse wins hands down in all three areas.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 14:31] by Moderator

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #662207 is a reply to message #660155] Tue, 29 March 2011 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
Registered: July 2009
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And has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the best thing to do is
to report the bugs you're finding. If you don't, no one has a chance to
fix them.

--
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP Source Editing and JSDT
IBM Rational


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
icon2.gif  Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #662417 is a reply to message #557388] Wed, 30 March 2011 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
androidev is currently offline androidevFriend
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No Real Name wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 05:10
I think Eclipse sucks bigtime, it's buggy, unstable and not intuitive at all. I extremely dislike working with it.

I am an Eclipse newbie like you, coming from the Visual Studio and Emacs world and I disagree with your judgment.

Eclipse is not perfect, but I don't know of any software package of this magnitude that's perfect. I use it for Android development and I am thrilled & impressed every time it suggests corrections even at the program logic level. This is like programming with training wheels -- it detects & fixes problems even before compilation.


No Real Name wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 05:10

Compared to visual studio Eclipse is not even worthy of standing in its shadow.

In my opinion, Visual Studio stopped being worthy when it was re-implemented using .NET instead of the much faster and nimbler C/C++ version (latest was VC++ 6.0).

If I have to work with a sluggish IDE, I prefer Eclipse.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #753603 is a reply to message #557388] Fri, 28 October 2011 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
soun.f.eclipse is currently offline soun.f.eclipseFriend
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It's not really fair to compare Eclipse to Visual Studio. That's like comparing a car made by a real car company to something that someone made in their garage. As a product VS is obviously a superior because it was made by a competent team, paid for their work.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 October 2011 01:21]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #798703 is a reply to message #753603] Wed, 15 February 2012 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vaughn lanter is currently offline vaughn lanterFriend
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If Eclipse would just tell me what the problem is when it decides to not save files, I might be a bigger fan. Can't get any help with the problem either.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #799111 is a reply to message #798703] Wed, 15 February 2012 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
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Senior Member

On 2012.02.14 18:23, vaughn lanter wrote:
> If Eclipse would just tell me what the problem is when it decides to not
> save files, I might be a bigger fan. Can't get any help with the problem
> either.

It's true that Eclipse forums lack a little psychic friends network:
it's devilishly hard to diagnose or help someone who wishes to engage in
support-line twenty questions.

Here's some basic help to get started with:
http://catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #811190 is a reply to message #799111] Fri, 02 March 2012 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Missing name is currently offline Anonymous Missing nameFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: May 2011
Junior Member
Okay, the short list:
- The PHP IDE debugger stopped at random points in the code without warning
- Workspace crashed + corrupted on multiple occasions without cause
- Performance woefully inadequate, ie. unable to keep up with typing speed
- Memory use extremely high
- Remote Apache PHP debugging is broken at many levels
- Configuring xDebug is a nightmare
- Code coloration so broken that it's worse than useless
- Workspace files not kept in sync with edits out of workspace

That's just a shortlist off the top of my head, because I've managed to stop using Eclipse. I'd suggest to anyone working with PHP to consider SciTE(Linux) or Notepad++(Windows). This is an effective editor which can be easily and promptly configured. It never crashes, supports dozens of languages and has many plugins available.

The only limitation is no debugger.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #811306 is a reply to message #811190] Fri, 02 March 2012 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
Messages: 3487
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On 2012.03.01 19:51, Anonymous Mising name wrote:
> Okay, the short list:
> - The PHP IDE debugger stopped at random points in the code without warning
--sorry, I don't do PHP; ask the guys in the Eclipse PDT forum.
> - Workspace crashed + corrupted on multiple occasions without cause
--saw this in early ADT development; not since and never in Java or Java EE.
> - Performance woefully inadequate, ie. unable to keep up with typing speed
--never seen this on Windows or Linux.
> - Memory use extremely high
--relative: what constitutes extremely high memory usage? I have 8G on
Windows and Linux. Memory is as cheap as dirty anyway.
> - Remote Apache PHP debugging is broken at many levels
> - Configuring xDebug is a nightmare
--sorry, I don't do PHP; ask the guys in the Eclipse PDT forum.
> - Code coloration so broken that it's worse than useless
--this is configurable; I use vim as much as I do Eclipse's Java editor;
I see no problem with how color syntax works in either product.
> - Workspace files not kept in sync with edits out of workspace
--never seen this problem as Eclipse recognizes out-of-sync conditions
and asks me if I want to fix them.

> That's just a shortlist off the top of my head, because I've managed to
> stop using Eclipse.
--Hasta luego.
> I'd suggest to anyone working with PHP to consider
> SciTE(Linux) or Notepad++(Windows). This is an effective editor which
> can be easily and promptly configured. It never crashes, supports dozens
> of languages and has many plugins available.
>
> The only limitation is no debugger.
--I'm not nearly good enough a developer to write code I don't have to
debug, so I guess I'm stuck with Eclipse.

Obviously, all of us who answer questions in this forum, and thousands
more besides, do not have these problems you bring up--any of
them--though there are often other bugs that arise that we report and
see the community of committers fix.

Perhaps if you were a little more patient and willing to get help (in
your case, from the Eclipse PDT forum), you'd be successful too.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #813282 is a reply to message #811306] Mon, 05 March 2012 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Missing name is currently offline Anonymous Missing nameFriend
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Russell Bateman wrote on Fri, 02 March 2012 02:03
On 2012.03.01 19:51, Perhaps if you were a little more patient and willing to get help (in
your case, from the Eclipse PDT forum), you'd be successful too.


It's unfortunate that I don't have the patience required to use Eclipse. I'm extremely lucky that there's other software available which better suits me. There isn't one solution to every problem.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #827704 is a reply to message #813282] Fri, 23 March 2012 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
amey karekar is currently offline amey karekarFriend
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I agree. It sucks. Its a big memory hog. Eats up half the available memory and crashes too often. I am trying to install the m2e for eclipse since the past 30 minutes and its still downloading the stuff. Holy crap.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1034595 is a reply to message #557388] Fri, 05 April 2013 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Derek Webb is currently offline Derek WebbFriend
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I have been using Eclipse for 5 years now. It has always been a memory hog - not to mention slower than fossilized giant sloth (jk - it is slightly faster than that). I have to kill it periodically bc it kills the heap - and crushes Java.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1034736 is a reply to message #1034595] Fri, 05 April 2013 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
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On 4/5/2013 1:12 PM, Derek Webb wrote:
> I have been using Eclipse for 5 years now. It has always been a memory
> hog - not to mention slower than fossilized giant sloth (jk - it is
> slightly faster than that). I have to kill it periodically bc it kills
> the heap - and crushes Java.

--my experience on Windows XP years ago too, but not so much on Windows
7 with 8Gb memory and never on Linux with even less memory than that.

I don't care about how much memory Eclipse uses since running Eclipse is
most of what I ask my development host hardware to do. Anyway, my set-up
for years has been Linux and 8Gb of memory--it's lightning fast and I
don't seem to have any trouble running anything else at the same time
either.

The plug-ins you're using may be at fault too. Remember, more than
anything, Eclipse is a pile of plug-ins.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1034947 is a reply to message #557388] Sat, 06 April 2013 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cale McCollough is currently offline Cale McColloughFriend
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I am a computer engineer and have been programming for over 11 years so I know how to use an IDE. This is why Eclipse sucks big time.

1.) You can't change the default font color. You can change the font, but not the color. Eclipse uses the system default font color. This is a major problem because when I program, I use a dark background to ease eye strain. My system font color is black due to the OS defaulting to a white background... how am I supposed to read black text on a dark background??? Changing my system font color every time I want to change programs is not a legitimate method.

2.) When editing color schemes, you cant just click on a symbol type in the preview and have it select what you are configuring. You have to select it from a drop down menu... that is totally stupid/frustrating and not fast or easy... were engineers here, time=money.

3.) The Workspace is in a fixed location and it doesn't allow easy importing of projects. I should be able to load a project anywhere on a local or networked drive without any hassles, just like every other IDE. I shouldn't have to switch my workspace and reload the program when all I want to do is load a project from my Drive just took look at an old project for reference. Bottom line, its stupid. Let me open my project and quit messing with me.

4.) There are a lot of better IDEs out there that are a lot quicker and easier to use. So save yourself the time. I don't care if its free and you can theoretically do powerful things with it. If it spend more time trying to figure out the options then coding, your wasting my time. Again time=money... so then Eclipse is screwing me out of money... which makes it not free.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1038779 is a reply to message #1034947] Thu, 11 April 2013 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wojtek  is currently offline Wojtek Friend
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Cale McCollough wrote :

I do not work on Eclipse, I am just a user.

> I am a computer engineer and have been programming for over 11 years so I
> know how to use an IDE. This is why Eclipse sucks big time.

So? I have been developing for about 30 years, using everything from
CP/M, MS-DOS 1.0 (EDLIN), to minis, to mainframes, to OS/2, and to
Windows in its various flavors. I know over 15 languages, and I have
lost count of all the editors and IDEs I have used on those platforms.

>
> 1.) You can't change the default font color. You can change the font, but not
> the color. Eclipse uses the system default font color. This is a major
> problem because when I program, I use a dark background to ease eye strain.
> My system font color is black due to the OS defaulting to a white
> background... how am I supposed to read black text on a dark background???
> Changing my system font color every time I want to change programs is not a
> legitimate method.

Just as a thought, have you tried turning down the brightness on your
monitor?

Besides, open Preferences, General, Appearance, Editors, Text Editors,
then select Background color and Foreground color from the list at the
bottom. Uncheck "System Default" and select the colors of your choice.

You can then go to Java, Editor, Syntax Coloring to alter the rest of
the color choices.

Export the preferences and you can reuse them on other Eclipse
installations.

> 2.) When editing color schemes, you cant just click on a symbol type in the
> preview and have it select what you are configuring. You have to select it
> from a drop down menu... that is totally stupid/frustrating and not fast or
> easy... were engineers here, time=money.

Really? So you want to click within the preview for say abstract
methods, and have the menu selection for abstract menus selected in the
element list.

Might not be a bad enhancement. You can go to
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs and make a request.

Though I find the current system intuitive and easy to use. YMMV.

> 3.) The Workspace is in a fixed location and it doesn't allow easy importing
> of projects. I should be able to load a project anywhere on a local or
> networked drive without any hassles, just like every other IDE. I shouldn't
> have to switch my workspace and reload the program when all I want to do is
> load a project from my Drive just took look at an old project for reference.
> Bottom line, its stupid. Let me open my project and quit messing with me.
>

A workspace contains much more than just your source code. Among other
things there is a history of the changes you have made.

Importing can be as easy as creating the project, then using the
Eclipse to import the source code.

Or you can use the OS, copy/paste your source code into the newly
created project source directory. A refresh and Eclipse picks up the
code.

Or you can set up a virtual link to the other project's root directory,
which makes all the files available. Note that this is deemed to be
outside the Eclipse project and therefore is not within the build
process. As such it cannot affect your current project with fussy
things like un-resolved dependancies and syntax errors.

Select your project (top element). This places the location of the
link. Then click on File, New, Folder. In the dialoque click on
Advanced at the bottom. Select Link to Alternate Location, then browse
to your other project's root directory.

Or you can use a networked version control system and access your code
from multiple IDEs, computers, and locations.


> 4.) There are a lot of better IDEs out there that are a lot quicker and
> easier to use. So save yourself the time. I don't care if its free and you
> can theoretically do powerful things with it. If it spend more time trying to
> figure out the options then coding, your wasting my time. Again time=money...
> so then Eclipse is screwing me out of money... which makes it not free.

Every IDE has its own quirks. You may prefer some IDE because you have
taught yourself over time to work within its capabilities and
limitations.

Eclipse has its own capabilities and limitations. And yes it takes a
certain amount of effort to become conversant in it.

I would have the same issues as you have if I was to start using your
IDE. And to you I would seem dumb because it takes time to learn the
IDE, any IDE.

-----

So what? A tool is just a tool. It can do some things, it cannot do
others.

Have you tried looking through the Eclipse plugin web site? There might
be plugins which will allow some of the things you lack in Eclipse. Of
course you need to "waste" the time to look for them...

--
Wojtek :-)
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1038955 is a reply to message #1038779] Thu, 11 April 2013 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lalle Ball is currently offline Lalle BallFriend
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Eclipse has it's flaws but it's the best out there.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1039427 is a reply to message #1038955] Fri, 12 April 2013 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claudio Heeg is currently offline Claudio HeegFriend
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Lalle Ball wrote on Thu, 11 April 2013 16:47
Eclipse has it's flaws but it's the best out there.

For lots of people and general purposes. Let's not overly generalise.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1041803 is a reply to message #1034947] Mon, 15 April 2013 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
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Cale McCollough wrote on Sat, 06 April 2013 00:47
I2.) When editing color schemes, you cant just click on a symbol type in the preview and have it select what you are configuring. You have to select it from a drop down menu... that is totally stupid/frustrating and not fast or easy... were engineers here, time=money.


This already works for some editors (XML/HTML/CSS/DTD/JSP/PHP(?)) because the algorithm used for performing their syntax coloring is that straightforward. The amount of time to do so for other editors has always had to justify itself against how frequently people change their syntax coloring preferences. As has been mentioned, it's an interesting feature request at least.


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1061766 is a reply to message #557388] Mon, 03 June 2013 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Cri is currently offline Dani CriFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: June 2013
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Been working with Eclipse for a while now, mostly Android (both Windows and Mac). For all the people saying the Eclipse is good and great...ARE YOU F...KIDDING ?!?!

I worked for a lot of years, with most IDEs on most platforms: Eclipse, Netbeans, Visual Studio since the beginnings, XCode and so on.

Eclipse is the worst, probably very close to Netbeans, 2 of the most horrific IDE ever created. The productivity I have in those is AT MOST 50% of what I do in VS and XCode.

Just a few things:

- even the mouse clicks and keyboard typing is slow in Eclipse. I always feel like I'm working in a virtual machine (which, basically, we are) or over a remote desktop connection. Even with the best machines (i7, 16gb, SSDs), Eclipse is extremely slow.
The rest of the IDEs perform naturally, they respond quickly and so on.
With Eclipse, I always get headaches after prolonged sessions, because of the constant delays in my commands.
- I have to restart it AT LEAST twice per hour. I'm not kidding. TWICE PER HOUR. Reasons are multiple: speed decreases to inimaginable values, it gets stuck on the Debug perspective, I get error dialogs with some random internal error, keyboards shortcuts stop working and so on. This happens all the time and not only for me, but for all the people working with me.
Then...unexpected errors in code, where everything looks good...you restart Eclipse and voila! everything suddenly compiles.
- I have the helper views display on the botton (LogCat, Console, etc). Well...every 10-20 runs, they suddenly move in the top right corner. All of them. I have to manually drag them back. Uau.

It is NOT possible to have an IDE in 2013 that has to be restarted twice an hour.
Even XCode, in its worst periods (< v4) wasn't that bad.

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Google decide to finally dump this and create a nice IDE based on probably the only usable java ide.
Android Studio is great so far (although missing some features for now). Speed is as expected, moves very natural, no bugs, no restart. When it will reach production, half of Eclipse users will move to it.

Let's hope this happens soon, I'm about to put a fist through my monitors if I have to see Eclipse for much longer....



Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1061767 is a reply to message #1061766] Mon, 03 June 2013 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
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Those are unusual performance characteristics for the class of hardware you're describing, as I can run like that for days without issues. I don't have the Android tools installed, though, nor anything resembling a LogCat view. Best suggestion is that when you encounter one of these random errors of yours, you open a bug report at http://bugs.eclipse.org.

---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM

[Updated on: Mon, 03 June 2013 20:27]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1061800 is a reply to message #1061766] Tue, 04 June 2013 07:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claudio Heeg is currently offline Claudio HeegFriend
Messages: 75
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Dani Cri wrote on Mon, 03 June 2013 22:20
...


http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/t/367243/
Other than that, probably plugin issues.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 June 2013 07:14]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1061818 is a reply to message #557388] Tue, 04 June 2013 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Cri is currently offline Dani CriFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: June 2013
Junior Member
I don't know what plugin issues, it's a standard installation (ADT from google, always updated to the last version). Same things happen to me on a Mac installation and EXACTLY the same issues happen for a colleague on a Windows PC. (obviously, since its the same Eclipse code, running on top of different virtual machines)

I tried to follow one of the suggestions from a previous post and disable some animations, but even that was not possible Smile) Went to Preferences, Appearance and voila, Eclipse crashed Smile Incredible.
Now the Appearance tab is white and cannot be selected. Time for the multi-restart Eclipse fix tool !

Bugs ? I cannot open bugs for such trivial issues. I know opening bugs can help the software and they should be opened, but not when they are like that !
I am more than happy to report a beautiful bug, hidden, hard to find, but I cannot open bugs saying that Eclipse is slow and crashes 2 times an hour or has to be restarted so I can barely work.

Here are some bugs and a way to reproduce them:

1) Get Eclipse + ADT
2) Work in it for a day on a real project
3) At the end of the day you will have a list with at least 10 bugs or more.

Now, I really doubt that everything is because of the ADT and Eclipse is great without it. I am sure 99% of the issues are in Eclipse.

Sorry about being so bitchy about this, but I am really frustrated for a while with it and I cannot wait until Android Studio becomes usable.

As for the people saying that Eclipse is OK, my only explanation is that they only used that IDE and never worked with anything else in their lives.
In that case, it's normal to consider it OK, I guess...
But if someone with at least 1+ years on VS or Xcode still says Eclipse is good....

[Updated on: Tue, 04 June 2013 08:46]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1061930 is a reply to message #1061766] Tue, 04 June 2013 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phil Beauvoir is currently offline Phil BeauvoirFriend
Messages: 23
Registered: October 2012
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Dani Cri wrote on Mon, 03 June 2013 16:20

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Google decide to finally dump this and create a nice IDE based on probably the only usable java ide.
Android Studio is great so far (although missing some features for now). Speed is as expected, moves very natural, no bugs, no restart. When it will reach production, half of Eclipse users will move to it.

Let's hope this happens soon, I'm about to put a fist through my monitors if I have to see Eclipse for much longer....



[Updated on: Sat, 08 February 2014 14:34]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1061961 is a reply to message #1061930] Wed, 05 June 2013 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
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This seems like an ironic comment given that your IDE, whichever one it
may be, is running on a PC. It's also not a given that the problems you
see with the Eclipse Android integration aren't cause by the Android
extensions rather than by Eclipse itself. Given I use it all day every
day and don't see such problems, I'd assume it's the former not the latter.

On 04/06/2013 10:18 PM, Ex Libris wrote:
> Dani Cri wrote on Mon, 03 June 2013 16:20
>> But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Google decide to
>> finally dump this and create a nice IDE based on probably the only
>> usable java ide.
>> Android Studio is great so far (although missing some features for
>> now). Speed is as expected, moves very natural, no bugs, no restart.
>> When it will reach production, half of Eclipse users will move to it.
>>
>> Let's hope this happens soon, I'm about to put a fist through my
>> monitors if I have to see Eclipse for much longer....
>
>
> Let's hope this marks a turning point. The Eclipse platform and IDE
> might have been relevant in about 2000-2008, but not in the "post-PC"
> era. The sooner someone puts Eclipse out of its misery the better for
> all of us. RIP Eclipse! :)
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062026 is a reply to message #557388] Wed, 05 June 2013 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Cri is currently offline Dani CriFriend
Messages: 6
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Here's a nice one that happens to me lately...

After a few hours of work, keyboard shortcuts no longer work. No more copy paste using the keyboard. Using contextual menu works.
Basically, 90% of the shortcuts stop. Organize imports, Run/Debug, Copy/Paste.
The simply don't work anymore, but all is OK using the mouse.

The magic Eclipse restart fixes everything, at least for the next few hours.

Words cannot describe how much I f...ing hate this thing.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062048 is a reply to message #1062026] Wed, 05 June 2013 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
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Dani,

I've never seen something like this using it (JDT) all day every day.
If you look in the Error Log, perhaps there's some information there
that would help track down the cause problem so that it can be fixed.
I'm sure as a software developer you can appreciate that a prerequisite
for fixing problems is to reproduce them. In the end though, most of
this sounds like it's ADT related and Eclipse doesn't host the ADT
technology so there's not much we can do. It's a little like blaming
the language because someone uses it to express obscenities; it's just
not possible to prevent abuse. One might expect the folks who develop
ADT to try it for a day and see problems such as the ones you describe,
but either they haven't, or they need more information from you because
ADT works perfectly when they test it. Best you communicate on a forum
that as the ADT developer's attention...


On 05/06/2013 3:30 PM, Dani Cri wrote:
> Here's a nice one that happens to me lately...
>
> After a few hours of work, keyboard shortcuts no longer work. No more
> copy paste using the keyboard. Using contextual menu works.
> Basically, 90% of the shortcuts stop. Organize imports, Run/Debug,
> Copy/Paste.
> The simply don't work anymore, but all is OK using the mouse.
>
> The magic Eclipse restart fixes everything, at least for the next few
> hours.
>
> Words cannot describe how much I f...ing hate this thing.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062098 is a reply to message #1062026] Wed, 05 June 2013 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wojtek  is currently offline Wojtek Friend
Messages: 47
Registered: August 2011
Member
Dani Cri wrote :
> Here's a nice one that happens to me lately...
>
> After a few hours of work, keyboard shortcuts no longer work. No more copy
> paste using the keyboard. Using contextual menu works.
> Basically, 90% of the shortcuts stop. Organize imports, Run/Debug,
> Copy/Paste.
> The simply don't work anymore, but all is OK using the mouse.
>
> The magic Eclipse restart fixes everything, at least for the next few hours.

I have the same problem. However the issue was universal on my Windows
machine. I finally tracked it down to another program which was hooking
into the Windows message queue. Shutting down this program fixed all
the keyboard/menu/mouse issues.

--
Wojtek :-)
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062119 is a reply to message #1062098] Thu, 06 June 2013 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
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Wojtek,

Yes, I've add a similar problem years ago that Ctrl-Space just didn't
work all of a sudden. That too was caused by some other software I
installed on my machine capturing it before Eclipse could even see it.
That took hours to figure out and I didn't even know this was possible
so I was quite sure it was an Eclipse problem.


On 06/06/2013 1:38 AM, Wojtek wrote:
> Dani Cri wrote :
>> Here's a nice one that happens to me lately...
>>
>> After a few hours of work, keyboard shortcuts no longer work. No more
>> copy paste using the keyboard. Using contextual menu works.
>> Basically, 90% of the shortcuts stop. Organize imports, Run/Debug,
>> Copy/Paste.
>> The simply don't work anymore, but all is OK using the mouse.
>>
>> The magic Eclipse restart fixes everything, at least for the next few
>> hours.
>
> I have the same problem. However the issue was universal on my Windows
> machine. I finally tracked it down to another program which was
> hooking into the Windows message queue. Shutting down this program
> fixed all the keyboard/menu/mouse issues.
>
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062187 is a reply to message #557388] Thu, 06 June 2013 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Cri is currently offline Dani CriFriend
Messages: 6
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Ed Merks, I understand what you are saying, trust me, I know it all too well.

The thing is the some issues are clearly from Eclipse, while others may be from ADT. I don't know, I really don't have time to find out. If they were some well-hidden bugs, then I'd probably be more than happy to help and open bugs and waste my time with this.
But they are so common and happen so often, that they are either known and worked on or nobody cares. Each way, I cant waste time for it.

If it was just me, then again, maybe a bug report would help. But no, this things happen to all the people I work with, each one of them has only bad words to say about Eclipse.
And let's be honest. Eclipse can't be perfect and the ADT ruins it completely.
It has very big issues, speed being the most common one.

You can tell me that you fell Eclipse is working and behaving naturally like any other app. Even the mouse has delays on clicks, visual updates are slow, exactly like you'd expect from a monster software running on top of a virtual machine.

Anyway, nothing else for me to do, that's it, I'll use it until the next version of Android Studio.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062199 is a reply to message #1062187] Thu, 06 June 2013 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
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Dani,

Comments below.

On 06/06/2013 2:45 PM, Dani Cri wrote:
> Ed Merks, I understand what you are saying, trust me, I know it all
> too well.
Yes, I assumed you're a developer and this is something all developers
know from personal experience.
>
> The thing is the some issues are clearly from Eclipse, while others
> may be from ADT.
It's not always so clear that a rogue plugin doesn't mess up all kinds
of things it shouldn't...
> I don't know, I really don't have time to find out.
Yes, kind of like when Egit fails, I have only time to focus on getting
my job done, not on what's going wrong with Egit...
> If they were some well-hidden bugs, then I'd probably be more than
> happy to help and open bugs and waste my time with this.
> But they are so common and happen so often, that they are either known
> and worked on or nobody cares.
Given that a very large number of people use Eclipse all day every day
(including me) and (I) don't see things like "the short cut keys all
stop working" or "Eclipse just crashes every so often" it's not so clear
that the problem you see are fundamental Eclipse problems that the
developers of Eclipse just ignore...
> Each way, I cant waste time for it.
No, fair enough, we want tools just to work, not spend time making them
work...
>
> If it was just me, then again, maybe a bug report would help. But no,
> this things happen to all the people I work with, each one of them has
> only bad words to say about Eclipse.
All of them using ADT?
> And let's be honest. Eclipse can't be perfect and the ADT ruins it
> completely.
That may be. I have no experience. It's my understanding that the ADT
folks have interacted minimally with the Eclipse team and aren't in the
habit of opening feature requests or reporting bugs...
> It has very big issues, speed being the most common one.
>
> You can tell me that you fell Eclipse is working and behaving
> naturally like any other app. Even the mouse has delays on clicks,
> visual updates are slow, exactly like you'd expect from a monster
> software running on top of a virtual machine.
That's just something I don't see. It would be very annoying...
>
> Anyway, nothing else for me to do, that's it, I'll use it until the
> next version of Android Studio.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062397 is a reply to message #1062026] Fri, 07 June 2013 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
Messages: 3487
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Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 6/5/2013 7:30 AM, Dani Cri wrote:
> Here's a nice one that happens to me lately...
>
> After a few hours of work, keyboard shortcuts no longer work. No more
> copy paste using the keyboard. Using contextual menu works.
> Basically, 90% of the shortcuts stop. Organize imports, Run/Debug,
> Copy/Paste.
> The simply don't work anymore, but all is OK using the mouse.
>
> The magic Eclipse restart fixes everything, at least for the next few
> hours.
>
> Words cannot describe how much I f...ing hate this thing.

Years ago when I worked with ADT, I also had some trouble similar to
what you describe, especially the needing to bounce Eclipse part.
However, I was mostly able to work around the issues, did develop the
Android software and move on. I can say that in 7 years of Eclipse use
from Europa to Juno, except for early days on Windows XP, slow hardware,
then the ADT experience, I've never had any of symptoms you speak of.
Nor have thousands who've been on or visited this forum, though over the
years, I've heard sporadic complaints from others like you.

I wish I had an answer to your trouble. I hope that the next time I need
to develop Android software, I will not experience the same thing. I
will say that the trouble I had with ADT pretty much disappeared when I
a) got decent hardware and b) moved that decent hardware to Linux. I did
not have these problems running (back in the day) Helios under Lucid on
a circa 3GHz, 8Gb i5. Unfortunately, that came at the end of my brush
with Android. Prior to that, as I say, I was running on Windoz and had
acquired the habit of preemptively bouncing Eclipse (and ADT) especially
prior to certain operations I don't remember (but my impression was that
they were connected with editing relevant .xml files).
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062829 is a reply to message #1062397] Tue, 11 June 2013 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Roland Paquette is currently offline Roland PaquetteFriend
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Registered: June 2013
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I am not a developer. But I do have to review documents - a lot of documents. I have experience using Summation, Concordance, Relativity, InControl, iConnect, and a few I probably forgot but I have never had the problems like I have with eclipse. Just try doing data entry. I want to enter a date. None of the date fields are in any sort of order and some don't even have a date field. Why? I don't know. But whether it is entering a date or a name or a summary you have to click on a field. THEN WAIT FIVE SECONDS so you can type the first entry. Really?

Can I export to a CSV? Can I create a report? Analytics require special permissions to do whatever that does.

What do you do if you have the same entry for a dozen entries? You can't just hit an F-Key to duplicate an entry. Everything has to be typed over-and-over again. I HATE IT.

Apparently some 'smart' lawyer made a decision to invest in the lowest cost most useless piece of crap out there to do document reviews. If you're a developer and you like this piece of shit, please let me know why I should learn to love this. If it can be tamed and made to work I might give it a second opinion but as it sits today this is the most horrible piece of garbage I ever worked with. I would rather develop my own MS Access database or excel spreadsheet and use that. THIS JUST SUCKS.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062831 is a reply to message #557481] Tue, 11 June 2013 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Roland Paquette is currently offline Roland PaquetteFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: June 2013
Junior Member
What is inconvenient about eclipse?

It is buggy - constant repetitive errors

It locks up on some errors and requires an exit and restart

When you attempt data entry you have to click on a field - WAIT FIVE SECONDS - and then type your first character

How do you segregate document reviews?

How do you manage different document reviews?

Can you assign a review level or segment for a user?

If you have to duplicate data entry can you just hit an F-key to replicate the entry?

Can you run your own custom reports?

When you print a batch run why does it sometime crash and sometime not?

These are the things I came across only in ONE DAY. I am sick of this piece of garboge. Whoever developed it is obviously in love with Java and loves to develop it but has absolutely not a single clue how to use it. Just my opinion as an end user.

Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062835 is a reply to message #1062831] Tue, 11 June 2013 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
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This sounds unlike anything I've ever done in Eclipse.

---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062840 is a reply to message #1062831] Tue, 11 June 2013 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
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Roland,

Comments below.

On 11/06/2013 4:16 AM, Roland Paquette wrote:
> What is inconvenient about eclipse?
>
> It is buggy - constant repetitive errors
>
> It locks up on some errors and requires an exit and restart
What kinds of errors? What do you have installed? What are you doing?
>
> When you attempt data entry you have to click on a field - WAIT FIVE
> SECONDS - and then type your first character
Where are you doing this?
>
> How do you segregate document reviews?
What are you using for document reviews?
> How do you manage different document reviews?
>
> Can you assign a review level or segment for a user?
>
> If you have to duplicate data entry can you just hit an F-key to
> replicate the entry?
Where are these data entries?
>
> Can you run your own custom reports?
Reports. Is BIRT related?
>
> When you print a batch run why does it sometime crash and sometime not?
A batch run of what?
>
> These are the things I came across only in ONE DAY.
Unfortunately there's really not a single iota of useful information in
your post.
> I am sick of this piece of garboge. Whoever developed it is obviously
> in love with Java and loves to develop it but has absolutely not a
> single clue how to use it.
I get the feeling your not referring to Eclipse, but rather something
developed on top of Eclipse. It's a little like blaming Java for
helping to write bad software, or English for allowing people to express
profanity...
> Just my opinion as an end user.
Reproducible bug reports would be must more useful.
>
>
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062841 is a reply to message #1062829] Tue, 11 June 2013 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
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Roland,

Comments below.

On 11/06/2013 4:16 AM, Roland Paquette wrote:
> I am not a developer. But I do have to review documents - a lot of
> documents. I have experience using Summation, Concordance, Relativity,
> InControl, iConnect, and a few I probably forgot but I have never had
> the problems like I have with eclipse. Just try doing data entry. I
> want to enter a date. None of the date fields are in any sort of order
> and some don't even have a date field. Why? I don't know. But whether
> it is entering a date or a name or a summary you have to click on a
> field. THEN WAIT FIVE SECONDS so you can type the first entry. Really?
What tool are you using?
>
> Can I export to a CSV? Can I create a report? Analytics require
> special permissions to do whatever that does.
>
> What do you do if you have the same entry for a dozen entries? You
> can't just hit an F-Key to duplicate an entry. Everything has to be
> typed over-and-over again. I HATE IT.
How exactly are you expecting Eclipse to solve this? It should be
solved by the people who wrote the tool you're using, but instead you
come here and trash the framework. It's like saying I hate English
because people say horrible things with it. People can say horrible
things in any language...
> Apparently some 'smart' lawyer made a decision to invest in the lowest
> cost most useless piece of crap out there to do document reviews.
Eclipse doesn't come with document review capabilities, at least as far
as I know or as far as I've ever used...
> If you're a developer and you like this piece of shit, please let me
> know why I should learn to love this.
You don't need to love a bad piece of software, but your behavior seems
like a juvenile tantrum.
> If it can be tamed and made to work I might give it a second opinion
> but as it sits today this is the most horrible piece of garbage I ever
> worked with. I would rather develop my own MS Access database or excel
> spreadsheet and use that. THIS JUST SUCKS.
The problem is you've just not make clear what THIS is. As Nitin
mentioned, none of THIS sounds familiar to us.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062906 is a reply to message #1062840] Tue, 11 June 2013 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Roland Paquette is currently offline Roland PaquetteFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: June 2013
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OK, maybe I am an idiot. Is this or is this not the forum for development of Eclipse, the document review tool used by iPRO?
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1062944 is a reply to message #1062906] Tue, 11 June 2013 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Wegener is currently offline David WegenerFriend
Messages: 1367
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Searching Google, I came across a product from a company called iprotech that is called eclipse. However, that product has nothing to do with the Eclipse tools developed by eclipse.org and supported on these forums. It is a completely different program.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1063010 is a reply to message #1062906] Tue, 11 June 2013 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
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Roland,

I have no idea what iPRO is but it's not a project hosted at Eclipse so
no, this isn't the let's-slam-Eclipse-because-iPRO-is-crap forum. Best
you complain to iPRO about your problems with iPRO.

On 11/06/2013 12:50 PM, Roland Paquette wrote:
> OK, maybe I am an idiot. Is this or is this not the forum for
> development of Eclipse, the document review tool used by iPRO?
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1064013 is a reply to message #1063010] Mon, 17 June 2013 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Cri is currently offline Dani CriFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: June 2013
Junior Member
what do you think about this? 25% of the times when the perspective changes to Debug, I get this Eclipse error: Error
java.lang.Object cannot be cast to org.eclipse.e4.core.commands.EHandlerService ?
After that, everything either works normally (50% of the cases), or everything goes to hell (Debug perspective stuck, cannot be changed back to Java an so on...).

I find it a bit weird since everyone here says Eclipse works OK and fast for them and they do not see the delays I'm seeing. It's not about hardware (I work on both PC and MAC, both i7, 16GB RAM and SSDs, so kinda monster machines..latest OS X and W8), so my only explanation, as I said before is that you guys didn't work on anything else besides Eclipse.
I can count at least 50 persons I've met/worked with, who all agrees (as if it is the most normal thing on Earth) that Eclipse is extremely slow. They like it cause its free, open source, probably best free java IDE, but if there is one thing they all agree is that Eclipse is slow.

Anyway, nothing to do here to change anyone's opinion, but it would be nice to hear someone who worked with more than Eclipse for at least 1-2 years.
I don't see any fixes for my issues, except waiting for next ADT version or next Eclipse or a full usable Android Studio, whichever comes first.

Until then, I'll have to use what I have.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1064024 is a reply to message #1064013] Mon, 17 June 2013 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
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Dani,

Yes, it would be nice if there was a big push on make performance more
snappy. Unfortunately, the fact it's free, doesn't help to fund such
efforts.

Please open a bugzilla with the stack trace for the problem you
describe. The Error Log view should have one.


On 17/06/2013 11:31 AM, Dani Cri wrote:
> what do you think about this? 25% of the times when the perspective
> changes to Debug, I get this Eclipse error: Error
> java.lang.Object cannot be cast to
> org.eclipse.e4.core.commands.EHandlerService ?
> After that, everything either works normally (50% of the cases), or
> everything goes to hell (Debug perspective stuck, cannot be changed
> back to Java an so on...).
>
> I find it a bit weird since everyone here says Eclipse works OK and
> fast for them and they do not see the delays I'm seeing. It's not
> about hardware (I work on both PC and MAC, both i7, 16GB RAM and SSDs,
> so kinda monster machines..latest OS X and W8), so my only
> explanation, as I said before is that you guys didn't work on anything
> else besides Eclipse. I can count at least 50 persons I've met/worked
> with, who all agrees (as if it is the most normal thing on Earth) that
> Eclipse is extremely slow. They like it cause its free, open source,
> probably best free java IDE, but if there is one thing they all agree
> is that Eclipse is slow.
>
> Anyway, nothing to do here to change anyone's opinion, but it would be
> nice to hear someone who worked with more than Eclipse for at least
> 1-2 years. I don't see any fixes for my issues, except waiting for
> next ADT version or next Eclipse or a full usable Android Studio,
> whichever comes first.
>
> Until then, I'll have to use what I have.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1065369 is a reply to message #557388] Tue, 25 June 2013 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dani Cri is currently offline Dani CriFriend
Messages: 6
Registered: June 2013
Junior Member
yeah, the problem of free software...if it's free there are no funds to make it better..
Well then, how about making it... 10$ ? With the current number of user, that would translate into millions.

I'd pay more than 10$ for a great standard IDE, used by everyone, without stupid bugs and good QA before release.
If opensource-free software means bullshit software, then I'm all for closed systems, paid and so on.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1065377 is a reply to message #1065369] Tue, 25 June 2013 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
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Dani,

Yes, it would be great if the software could be sold for a nominal fee
and have that money be used to invest in the most important things, a
snappy core platform being high on that list. Certainly one can donate
money, but targeting it for specific purposes is more problematic...

Also, the problem with all the free stuff (great or mediocre) is that it
directly undermines the ability to sell competing software because there
are a great many freetards who prefer not to pay a penny for anything,
even if there is compromise involved...

(Perhaps you could express yourself without swear words; it would make
your thoughts appear to be more insightfully composed.)


On 25/06/2013 3:17 PM, Dani Cri wrote:
> yeah, the problem of free software...if it's free there are no funds
> to make it better..
> Well then, how about making it... 10$ ? With the current number of
> user, that would translate into millions.
>
> I'd pay more than 10$ for a great standard IDE, used by everyone,
> without stupid bugs and good QA before release.
> If opensource-free software means bullshit software, then I'm all for
> closed systems, paid and so on.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1133408 is a reply to message #1065377] Fri, 11 October 2013 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sean Robertson is currently offline Sean RobertsonFriend
Messages: 1
Registered: October 2013
Junior Member
I feel the need to chime in here. I work at a medium-sized web development shop in NYC. We have developers on all of OSX, Windows, and Ubuntu. We do mostly Drupal, but some pure JavaScript projects as well (we also have a good-sized .Net/Sharepoint department, but they're almost entirely in their own little world). We ran into ALL KINDS of problems, especially on Windows machines with Eclipse not respecting line endings and other code formatting issues. The most obnoxious bug of all time, across multiple platforms is copy and paste from anywhere into a document with unix line endings results in a file with mixed line endings. That was enough of a fail that we got everyone in the office off of Eclipse and on to PHPStorm. Incidentally, PHPStorm seems to do a better job of respecting Drupal coding standards anyway (I'm a HUGE stickler for that).
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1134573 is a reply to message #1133408] Sat, 12 October 2013 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
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Sean,

Comments below.

On 12/10/2013 2:37 PM, Sean Robertson wrote:
> I feel the need to chime in here. I work at a medium-sized web
> development shop in NYC. We have developers on all of OSX, Windows,
> and Ubuntu. We do mostly Drupal, but some pure JavaScript projects as
> well (we also have a good-sized .Net/Sharepoint department, but
> they're almost entirely in their own little world). We ran into ALL
> KINDS of problems, especially on Windows machines with Eclipse not
> respecting line endings
How so?
> and other code formatting issues.
Of course code formatting is going to be language specific so it's clear
that one language doing a bad job will be viewed as tarnishing Eclipse
as a whole.
> The most obnoxious bug of all time, across multiple platforms is copy
> and paste from anywhere into a document with unix line endings results
> in a file with mixed line endings.
I tried that in both the Java editor and Eclipse's text editor and both
properly convert the line feed to match the document. Is the problem
you see specific to some editors or you see this for all editors,
including Eclipse's basic Text editor?
> That was enough of a fail that we got everyone in the office off of
> Eclipse and on to PHPStorm.
I see that costs between 26 and 179 euros, depending on the license;
your sounds commercial license but maybe you got the 50% OFF... If
every Eclipse user paid just a 10 euros, it's unlikely we'd have this
kind of discussion, but rather discuss how best to invest the mountain
of money...
> Incidentally, PHPStorm seems to do a better job of respecting Drupal
> coding standards anyway (I'm a HUGE stickler for that).
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1235144 is a reply to message #557388] Thu, 23 January 2014 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brendan Anderson is currently offline Brendan AndersonFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2014
Junior Member
You guys, I created an account just to chime in.

What's so frustrating about eclipse is that I love things about it, but other things make it unusable.

First the good: when things are working it is just a first rate IDE. I've got code completion, I've got a great plugin to integrate with Perforce. That's just about all I need.

But:

I too am a web developer and I have experienced the issue where all keyboard shortcuts just stop working.

I could put up with that, but why does eclipse need to build my workspace over and over? The process takes hours in which eclipse is not usable (I can use it, but I can't save files). The process results in eclipse becoming unresponsive more times than not. I know I can disable the automatic build, but I get this warning when I do:

"Disabling automatic builds may cause content assist and other functionality to fail."

What if I want to use my IDE and not have functionality fail? What are my options?

I end up using NetBeans, which is great, but has no integration for Perforce. So, about once a year I give eclipse another shot. I keep going back to NetBeans though.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1235148 is a reply to message #1235144] Thu, 23 January 2014 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
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"Disabling automatic builds may cause content assist and other functionality to fail."

I don't think I've ever seen that message. Where were you in the UI when that message appeared? What version of Eclipse was this?


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1235170 is a reply to message #1235148] Thu, 23 January 2014 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eike Stepper is currently offline Eike StepperFriend
Messages: 5889
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Am 23.01.2014 18:06, schrieb Nitin Dahyabhai:
> "Disabling automatic builds may cause content assist and other functionality to fail."
>
> I don't think I've ever seen that message. Where were you in the UI when that message appeared? What version of
> Eclipse was this?
I think that can't be the ppint of this discussion. Clearly all functionality that depends on parsed and compiled
sources has to fail when building is turned off, whether this message appears or not.

We all got used to incremental building and we rely on it not interfering unnecessarily with our manual interactions.
For me the worst is not when something doesn't work, i.e., doesn't deliver the correct result, but when it freezes the
IDE and hinders my further interaction. I can understand those who can't accept that - and have alternatives.

Cheers
/Eike

----
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1235505 is a reply to message #1235170] Fri, 24 January 2014 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
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Eike Stepper wrote on Thu, 23 January 2014 13:08
Am 23.01.2014 18:06, schrieb Nitin Dahyabhai:
> "Disabling automatic builds may cause content assist and other functionality to fail."
>
> I don't think I've ever seen that message. Where were you in the UI when that message appeared? What version of
> Eclipse was this?
I think that can't be the ppint of this discussion. Clearly all functionality that depends on parsed and compiled
sources has to fail when building is turned off, whether this message appears or not.

We all got used to incremental building and we rely on it not interfering unnecessarily with our manual interactions.
For me the worst is not when something doesn't work, i.e., doesn't deliver the correct result, but when it freezes the
IDE and hinders my further interaction. I can understand those who can't accept that - and have alternatives.

Of course it's not the only point, but establishing which version's involved would be a start. If there is a large keybinding issue, maybe it's been found and fixed?

That Brendan decided to say anything here rather than silently fume or pointlessly vent elsewhere means there's at least a chance of figuring them out. The various content assist support I've worked on in Eclipse do not require builders to run to offer proposals, making that message very suspicious to me. Builds themselves shouldn't be cycling over and over.


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1237102 is a reply to message #1235505] Tue, 28 January 2014 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brendan Anderson is currently offline Brendan AndersonFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2014
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I am using 4.3.1. I attached a screenshot of the error. I can reproduce it any time I want by clicking Project > Build Automatically.

I did turn that off when I posted to this forum and things have gotten worse since. I attached a video of me typing a Drupal function name. I think code completion is grinding or something. I swear I am typing at normal speed. I am not sure if the "build" process has something to do with this.

Like I said I genuinely like eclipse. It is the only IDE that has all the features I want. I would like to fix these problems, but I have been at this a long time. I have tried every version since Galileo. I don't recall if this has been a persistent problem, but similar problems drive me away over and over again. So, I just feel like even if I fix this, next it will be something else.
  • Attachment: error.jpg
    (Size: 75.34KB, Downloaded 13 times)
  • Attachment: Untitled_1_1.mp4
    (Size: 1.22MB, Downloaded 10 times)
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1237386 is a reply to message #1237102] Wed, 29 January 2014 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
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Which language and editor was that? Is there more going on in the Progress View?

---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1245338 is a reply to message #1237386] Thu, 13 February 2014 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slajerek . is currently offline slajerek .Friend
Messages: 19
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Junior Member
Oh man, I completely agree with you. I've been using Eclipse for ages but I've never seen any stable version. That's literally 10 years of unstable version, and guys here are always focusing on new features, changing visuals etc, the stability is not important. Sucks big time is the correct wording. The funny thing is that on this forum devs will try to convince you that's not true, searching for your particular issues. Don't bother. It's not about a particular issue we experience, it's about 10+ years of not stable product that's just not tested before release. And as you can see issues can be spotted by naked eye immediately after starting something that they call "stable".

By the way that keybinding issue is as far as I remember since 2007.

Ok, maybe I exaggerate a little, issues are annoying, Eclipse is big piece of code, but that's true - 10 years of not having issues-free version is a bad, bad thing.



[Updated on: Thu, 13 February 2014 17:25]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1245634 is a reply to message #1245338] Fri, 14 February 2014 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Renato V is currently offline Renato VFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2014
Junior Member
I too find Eclipse very little intuitive. For example, if you want to install a new plugin you have to go to Help >> Install new software. I mean, really? Installing a new software is a "help" issue? I don't think so. And there are lots of things like that, I found it very hard to learn. And the fact that it's written in java annoys me the most. I have to meet some jre dependencies and install other java crap in my system in order to be able to run it. Eclipse is very slow compared to other softwares that (wisely) weren't written in this horrible programming language. But despite these two aspect, I find Eclipse a very good software. I am able to use it to code in whatever language I want and it's a whole development environment. It has build tools, debug tools, refactoring tools, autocompletion, easy access to libraries etc... this software is great and I love it. But it's far from being perfect.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1247026 is a reply to message #1245338] Sat, 15 February 2014 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
Messages: 3487
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Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 02/13/2014 10:06 AM, slajerek . wrote:
> Oh man, I completely agree with you. I've been using Eclipse for ages
> but I've never seen any stable version. That's literally 10 years of
> unstable version, and guys here are always focusing on new features,
> changing visuals etc, the stability is not important. Sucks big time is
> the correct wording. The funny thing is that on this forum devs will try
> to convince you that's not true. Don't bother.

I am not an Eclipse committer/developer, but only a consumer thereof.

When I use an adjustable wrench working on my car, it works the way it
works. I don't expect it to serve me a Martini in addition to tightening
or loosening bolts. And if I'm in a tight spot, it's going to be hard to
tighten or loosen bolts with it.

Any tool can be improved; there's a balance. In the case of Eclipse,
I've enjoyed over 8 years of both glee and frustration. As with any tool
in my garage, I work around what is frustrating to get the job done and
thank my lucky stars for how good it is and how much I've been able to
get done with it. Moreover, it's never obliged me to open my pocketbook
and hundreds of guys in forums and behind the scenes have gone to a
great deal of effort to help me and others have this tool and make use
of it.

I'm obliged in a new job to begin using IntelliJ. I find it very
confusing, ugly and frustrating and yet it's rather expensive for my
company to use when you multiply its license by hundreds of software
engineers using it. I don't want to do it, but I'll learn it, learn to
work around its peculiarities and just get stuff done. That's all I
really expect. And yet, because it's costing money, I should have the
right to complain about it, but I probably won't waste my time.

There's an old addage among craftsmen: A good craftsman never blames his
tools.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1248671 is a reply to message #1247026] Mon, 17 February 2014 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexey Orlov is currently offline Alexey OrlovFriend
Messages: 2
Registered: February 2014
Junior Member
Eclipse flaws are known, but worse is its developers' attitude. I've seen valid bug reports to which the developers just responded like "That's not a big issue. We won't fix that." It's so annoying, because there are bugs that haven't been fixed for months (years?) that cause all this users' discontent. It's stupid. I could make a dozen of bug reports but I won't because they won't be considered. Sometimes I think Eclipse is over-engineered garbage. Bottom line - free software rarely can beat paid one.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1249557 is a reply to message #1248671] Tue, 18 February 2014 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Renato V is currently offline Renato VFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2014
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What are Eclipse alternatives? Netbeans is built in java, so its performance is as terrible as Eclipse's. I tryed VIM yesterday, but it is so unproductive to me... are there any alternatives as good as Eclipse?
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1249678 is a reply to message #1249557] Tue, 18 February 2014 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brendan Anderson is currently offline Brendan AndersonFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2014
Junior Member
Don't write off netbeans until you've tried it. I love it. I've had no performance or reliability issues. It feels more like a purpose built application too. You get all the PHP/HTML/Javascript code completion and FTP (upload on save) out of the box. You need all kinds of add ons for eclipse to get all that working. The only reason I keep trying to switch to eclipse is that netbeans does not have a good perforce plugin (and you probably don't need that).
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1250153 is a reply to message #1249557] Wed, 19 February 2014 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
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Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 02/18/2014 04:19 AM, Renato V wrote:
> What are Eclipse alternatives? Netbeans is built in java, so its
> performance is as terrible as Eclipse's. I tryed VIM yesterday, but it
> is so unproductive to me... are there any alternatives as good as Eclipse?

NetBeans and Vim?

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Even with lots of plug-ins, Vim can hardly be defended as a proper IDE.
I say this even though I've used vi for over 30 years (including
alongside Eclipse) with half that spent using Vim. Vim is a superb text
processor, the power of which you can find in no IDE editor. Vim
integration in IDEs is somewhat iffy.

There are two alternatives to Eclipse:

- NetBeans --very, very good, free
- IntelliJ IDEA --also very, very good, costs $199

--both written in Java containing lots of open-source software like Eclipse.

Note that out there in the big world, some people use IntelliJ. Except
for those, everyone who writes serious, commercial Java software (and
some other languages) uses Eclipse. Rare are the shops that use NetBeans
professionally. No one shows up to a job interview expecting to get
hired and says, "I won't use Eclipse; I use NetBeans."

If you think you're going to be employed to write in Java someday, plan
accordingly.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1251843 is a reply to message #1247026] Thu, 20 February 2014 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slajerek . is currently offline slajerek .Friend
Messages: 19
Registered: April 2010
Junior Member
Russell Bateman wrote on Sat, 15 February 2014 14:14

When I use an adjustable wrench working on my car, it works the way it
works. I don't expect it to serve me a Martini in addition to tightening
or loosening bolts. And if I'm in a tight spot, it's going to be hard to
tighten or loosen bolts with it.



Come on guy, I'm talking about normal development, not Martini stuff. Now for example all my breakpoints do not work, restarted Eclipse - did not help. I mean seriously? - breakpoints do not work... debug is gone.

I'm not talking about "Martini", but simple "brakes". Talking your language Wink It seems that Eclipse devs would like to create a "bartender in a car that will give you Martini, Vodka, Whiskey, but forgot to check if brakes do work correctly" Wink

And stuff like that is just every day, every month and every year. NEVER I've seen a stable version of Eclipse! I mean really NEVER. There are always some small issues here and there that are annoying as hell!

I'm not talking about some super-fancy things, let it just do what it is ought to do - be a normal development IDE that you can download stable and trust for the f* sake!! If the feature is not finished or is destroying the workflow then don't put it to the stable branch, simple as that!

The problem with Eclipse is that it's IDE, so it should be super-stable and super-bug free. But Eclipse is just buggy!! Is it really that hard to create a stable branch, not add features there and test it for 1 year to have a perfectly stable build?



[Updated on: Thu, 20 February 2014 17:16]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1251910 is a reply to message #1251843] Thu, 20 February 2014 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Rizzo is currently offline Eric RizzoFriend
Messages: 2654
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Why do you think something as fundamental as breakpoints aren't working? Do you really think that the tool, which has been dogfooded for 10 years or more and is downloaded/used by millions of people every year, just suddenly stopped working in such a fundamental way?! Do you even consider for a moment that perhaps something you did has disabled breakpoints? Or that some thrid-party plugin hs affected that functionality?
The propensity to blame the tool without considering user error or other outside factors is one of the biggest problems our industry faces, especially among programmers. The tool can be an IDE, a library, an external system, whatever... but far too often people are far too eager to overlook their own actions and point the finger elsewhere.

For breakpoints, there happens to be a button that disables all breakpoints (and toggles them back on again) - any chance you inadvertently clicked it?
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1252525 is a reply to message #1251843] Fri, 21 February 2014 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
slajerek . wrote on Thu, 20 February 2014 12:03
Now for example all my breakpoints do not work, restarted Eclipse - did not help. I mean seriously? - breakpoints do not work... debug is gone.

What language are you debugging? Certain ones are more reliable at it than others.


---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM

[Updated on: Fri, 21 February 2014 10:01]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1258584 is a reply to message #1252525] Thu, 27 February 2014 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slajerek . is currently offline slajerek .Friend
Messages: 19
Registered: April 2010
Junior Member
That's C++, newest Eclipse CDT.

Anyway, forget about breakpoints... I've downloaded newest Eclipse release and after one day usage I renamed that "eclipse" folder to "eclipse.buggy". I'm not going to go back to this release anymore... it destroyed my git repo. In every C++ file I edited that day the #include "blabla" was changed to #include <blabla>, whereas the project I work on is multiplatform it completely destroyed my workflow. So bye-bye newest Eclipse CDT.

I'm not sure why that was changed, I even don't want to know if that was some formatting by mistake or other not tested sh**t. I do not care if that was some hidden function that was run by some fancy-hidden button. I simply started it, performed standard coding actions and pushed to git... and in all files I edited includes were changed and after pull project was not compiling on Xcode nor Visual Studio anymore, thus I had to check these files manually and do old checkouts from git.

Have you ever heard about something called UX?

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 14:47]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1258833 is a reply to message #1258584] Thu, 27 February 2014 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26749
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I see. Apparently CDT sucks; I wouldn't know, I don't use it, but I'll
take your word for it. From this we can definitely conclude that
Eclipse as a whole sucks, because, hello, CDT is based on Eclipse, need
we say more? Of course following that totally reasonable logic, we can
definitely conclude that Java itself sucks, because both CDT and Eclipse
are implemented with Java and they suck. I'm not even sure why we need
such detailed backward reasoning in the first place, because it's
already clear that Java itself inherently sucks so of course anything
written in Java necessarily sucks. Furthermore, I suppose that because
Java runs on operating system Xyz, OS Xyz also sucks. And given that OS
Xyz is running on hardware Abc, ergo, Abc sucks. And because all these
problems happened on Thursday, Thursday sucks as well. It's clear that
suckiness is simply transitive, so once something sucks, pretty much
everything sucks, and anyone associated with sucky things is a loser,
and it's okay to swear at losers and spit on them, otherwise they never
learn how much they suck.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with critique, but notice that
you complained about how breakpoints don't work, and Eric explained that
they work well because millions of people are using them all the time.
Is one of you wrong? Given that you were talking about CDT and Eric was
talking about JDT, you could both be 100% right. But most definitely
your critique appears to be completely unfocused scatter gun shooting at
anything and everything in your line of sight and I can assure you that
obscured swearing does not enhance your credibility.

On 27/02/2014 3:40 PM, slajerek . wrote:
> That's C++, newest Eclipse CDT.
>
> Anyway, forget about breakpoints... I've downloaded newest Eclipse
> released and after one day usage renamed newest "eclipse" folder to
> "eclipse.buggy". I'm not going to go back to this release anymore...
> it destroyed my git repo. In every C++ file I edited the #include
> "blabla" was changed to #include <blabla>, whereas the project I work
> on is multiplatform it completely destroyed my workflow. So bye-bye
> newest Eclipse CDT.
> I'm not sure why that was changed, I even don't want to know if that
> was some formatting by mistake or other not tested sh**t.
>
> I do not care if that was some hidden function that was run by some
> fancy-hidden button. Have you ever heard about something called UX?
>
>
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1260559 is a reply to message #1258833] Sat, 01 March 2014 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
Messages: 3487
Registered: July 2009
Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 02/27/2014 01:15 PM, Ed Merks wrote:
> I see. Apparently CDT sucks; I wouldn't know, I don't use it, but I'll
> take your word for it. From this we can definitely conclude that
> Eclipse as a whole sucks, because, hello, CDT is based on Eclipse, need
> we say more? Of course following that totally reasonable logic, we can
> definitely conclude that Java itself sucks, because both CDT and Eclipse
> are implemented with Java and they suck. I'm not even sure why we need
> such detailed backward reasoning in the first place, because it's
> already clear that Java itself inherently sucks so of course anything
> written in Java necessarily sucks. Furthermore, I suppose that because
> Java runs on operating system Xyz, OS Xyz also sucks. And given that OS
> Xyz is running on hardware Abc, ergo, Abc sucks. And because all these
> problems happened on Thursday, Thursday sucks as well. It's clear that
> suckiness is simply transitive, so once something sucks, pretty much
> everything sucks, and anyone associated with sucky things is a loser,
> and it's okay to swear at losers and spit on them, otherwise they never
> learn how much they suck.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with critique, but notice that
> you complained about how breakpoints don't work, and Eric explained that
> they work well because millions of people are using them all the time.
> Is one of you wrong? Given that you were talking about CDT and Eric was
> talking about JDT, you could both be 100% right. But most definitely
> your critique appears to be completely unfocused scatter gun shooting at
> anything and everything in your line of sight and I can assure you that
> obscured swearing does not enhance your credibility.
>

Everything sucks! Too funny, Ed!

Being a very old C guy, I decided recently to try out Eclipse CDT
(Kepler). I did an admittedly simple program to open, parse and filter a
file. I had never used CDT before--I've been a Java guy for 8 years now
and began using Eclipse when I started doing Java. I've also tried
NetBeans (works nicely) and IntelliJ (way less happy with that, but
probably because I'm such an Eclipse guy).

I ran and debugged my C program. I found I was able to use Eclipse CDT
quite well without looking up how to do anything. This is likely because
I've used Eclipse JDT/JeeDT for so long. Still, I was very happy that it
worked so well.

I would recommend it to positive-thinking people. (Actually, I'm widely
known among my peers and acquaintances as a cynical, sarcastic and
pretty negative guy, but Eclipse has always worked well for me anyway.)

Russ
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1264864 is a reply to message #1260559] Wed, 05 March 2014 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slajerek . is currently offline slajerek .Friend
Messages: 19
Registered: April 2010
Junior Member
I understand your point. I also really enjoy staying another 30 mins in my work for fixing the Eclipse's issues instead of spending time with my family.

Btw. autocomplete does not work (at all, also after recreating the index). Hopefully I do type very fast so I can type my long method names easily...

[Updated on: Wed, 05 March 2014 15:10]

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Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1266692 is a reply to message #1264864] Fri, 07 March 2014 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark H is currently offline Mark HFriend
Messages: 2
Registered: March 2014
Junior Member
I've patiently tried to use Eclipse and accept its many flaws for years because of a hope that 'anyday now' it will live up to it's promise of being a a one-stop development tool.

But it always lets me down by suddenly breaking fatally in some mysterious and cryptic manner and typically at project crunch time. Then its reinstall, try to remember and reestablish previous settings/repos, hope for the best in getting projects building again ......

I develop across languages and frameworks. I suspect many problems that manifest in weird Eclipse gui or build issue are actually the result of a specific plug-in's bugs. Or some intermittent strange interdependency across a set of plug-in's and associated component libraries.

I'm not sure what exactly the IDE itself can do about this. A paranoid solution I've considered is to maintain entirely separate Eclipse IDE's - Android, J2EE, CDT etc. This would at least keep the reinstall downtime to a minimum and not impact all projects when something breaks the IDE beyond anyone's ability to understand or fix.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1267842 is a reply to message #1266692] Sun, 09 March 2014 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitin Dahyabhai is currently offline Nitin DahyabhaiFriend
Messages: 2505
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
You can Export most of your Preferences from the File menu and then Import them into those other workspaces.

---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP, IBM
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1268104 is a reply to message #1266692] Mon, 10 March 2014 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Bateman is currently offline Russell BatemanFriend
Messages: 3487
Registered: July 2009
Location: Provo, Utah, USA
Senior Member

On 03/08/2014 01:18 PM, Mark H wrote:
> I've patiently tried to use Eclipse and accept its many flaws for years
> because of a hope that 'anyday now' it will live up to it's promise of
> being a a one-stop development tool.
> But it always lets me down by suddenly breaking fatally in some
> mysterious and cryptic manner and typically at project crunch time.
> Then its reinstall, try to remember and reestablish previous
> settings/repos, hope for the best in getting projects building again ......
>
> I develop across languages and frameworks. I suspect many problems that
> manifest in weird Eclipse gui or build issue are actually the result of
> a specific plug-in's bugs. Or some intermittent strange interdependency
> across a set of plug-in's and associated component libraries.
> I'm not sure what exactly the IDE itself can do about this. A paranoid
> solution I've considered is to maintain entirely separate Eclipse IDE's
> - Android, J2EE, CDT etc. This would at least keep the reinstall
> downtime to a minimum and not impact all projects when something breaks
> the IDE beyond anyone's ability to understand or fix.

Years ago when I developed Android applications under Galileo then
Helios, I did just what you suggest here because I had trouble with ADT
and it seemed to me somewhat alleviated by using separate, minimal and
dedicated Eclipse installations. I have never had trouble with Java or
JEE and I've used Eclipse for those since slightly before the Europa
release.

Yours is a good solution especially if you do not tend to mix Android
development with Java/JEE development with CDT development--which would
be my case, I think.

If I were doing Android and CDT today, I would probably choose the same
approach (3 different installations), but many (most) people do not. The
all-in-one solution seems to work for them and they are quite content.
It's all probably good today, but I see no reason to fault your idea.

So, there's nothing wrong at all with your suggested approach from my
point of view.

Best of luck.
Re: Eclipse sucks bigtime [message #1441128 is a reply to message #1268104] Thu, 09 October 2014 09:40 Go to previous message
philipp huebner is currently offline philipp huebnerFriend
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2009
Member
I think he is right. Eclipse is dead. It's buggy, not rock solid anymore and seems more like a student project. My company has developed with eclipse rcp for years now, but with e4 we're gone. It's an evil joke...
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