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XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #55841] Fri, 03 December 2004 03:40 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: schamp.commonwerx.org

Hello.

* Background:

I've started looking into ASN.1, for incorporation into some project

I've worked with SGML and XML, and I've not been terribly satisfied with
XML Schemas, honestly -- and I am not looking to start a "flame war" about
it, but maybe it will serve to explain the background of this message.

I've not been terribly satisfied with XML Schemas, myself, and I am quite
satisfied, with what I'm seeing about (and of) ASN.1[1].

I'd noticed, also, that there are some standards, available from the
ITU[2], for tranlsation-or-something between ASN.1 and XML/XML-Schema
syntaxes.

Now, I don't know if XMI has "anything, directly technical, to do with
any of this" -- though, of course, it seems that XMI might accomplish
an end simliar to that of ASN.1. (I've not read much of anything about
XMI, but I think I can guess the intention of it -- and yet, I cannot
guess about how it plays in with-or-beside SOAP; I saw XML mentioned,
in one of the UML 2.0 standards drafts; it seemed worth mentioning,
here, also).


* Question:

Has anyone looked at any of the stuff (standards and/or tools) for
managign XML<->ASN.1 "translation" work?

If so: What has anyone thought of it?

* Motivation

Perhaps ASN.1<->XML "stuff" could ever be pertinent for the Eclipse
project - "off in the R&D wing of things, for now", heh.

(and beside that: I'll have to "dig" into some more research about
such standards & tools, myself. It will be easier, probably, if I know
of anyone who's found such standards/tools to be useful, now or in a
clear-enough prospective end)


** end **

hadios o wiedersehen,


---
Sean Champ
schamp@commonwerx.org
Fresno, California



Footnotes:
[1] "FWIW", there is one /very well written/ book about ASN.1, freely
avaialable for download, at:
http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html
It was written, originally, in French, I think; the version,
available at the page referenced, above, was translated into
English, and the translation was quite well done. Regardless of
choices of national language, the book is quite thoroughly
descrptive about ASN.1, regarding: the basis and motivation, for
the development of ASN.1; the language and the specific syntax of
ASN.1; some example-type uses of ASN.1, "to get the reader going,
by".

(Yes, this is not an advertisement; I just wanted to be thorough, heh.)

[2] ASN.1 standards:
http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html
http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/
...most, if not all of which, are available, freely, for download.

(The ITU, thus far, has liked to charge fees, for download of some
other standards of theirs; it looks like they've put ASN.1 "in the
clear", though.)
Re: XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #55896 is a reply to message #55841] Fri, 03 December 2004 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090003020509030804050809
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sean,

Oh my goodness, just what the world needs. Thousands upon thousands of
pages of specification to define more standard data exchange
mechanisms. This certainly does look to overlap heavily with other
standards efforts. After all, who isn't claiming this:

ASN.1, or Abstract Syntax Notation One, is an International
Standards Organization (ISO) data representation format used to
achieve interoperability between platforms.

Certainly XML, XMI, and Corba will make this claim too. Do you know how
this particular data representation format defined by a standards body
to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all the others?


Sean Champ wrote:

>Hello.
>
>* Background:
>
>I've started looking into ASN.1, for incorporation into some project
>
>I've worked with SGML and XML, and I've not been terribly satisfied with
>XML Schemas, honestly -- and I am not looking to start a "flame war" about
>it, but maybe it will serve to explain the background of this message.
>
>I've not been terribly satisfied with XML Schemas, myself, and I am quite
>satisfied, with what I'm seeing about (and of) ASN.1[1].
>
>I'd noticed, also, that there are some standards, available from the
>ITU[2], for tranlsation-or-something between ASN.1 and XML/XML-Schema
>syntaxes.
>
>Now, I don't know if XMI has "anything, directly technical, to do with
>any of this" -- though, of course, it seems that XMI might accomplish
>an end simliar to that of ASN.1. (I've not read much of anything about
>XMI, but I think I can guess the intention of it -- and yet, I cannot
>guess about how it plays in with-or-beside SOAP; I saw XML mentioned,
>in one of the UML 2.0 standards drafts; it seemed worth mentioning,
>here, also).
>
>
>* Question:
>
>Has anyone looked at any of the stuff (standards and/or tools) for
>managign XML<->ASN.1 "translation" work?
>
>If so: What has anyone thought of it?
>
>* Motivation
>
>Perhaps ASN.1<->XML "stuff" could ever be pertinent for the Eclipse
>project - "off in the R&D wing of things, for now", heh.
>
>(and beside that: I'll have to "dig" into some more research about
>such standards & tools, myself. It will be easier, probably, if I know
>of anyone who's found such standards/tools to be useful, now or in a
>clear-enough prospective end)
>
>
>** end **
>
>hadios o wiedersehen,
>
>
>---
>Sean Champ
>schamp@commonwerx.org
>Fresno, California
>
>
>
>Footnotes:
>[1] "FWIW", there is one /very well written/ book about ASN.1, freely
> avaialable for download, at:
> http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html
> It was written, originally, in French, I think; the version,
> available at the page referenced, above, was translated into
> English, and the translation was quite well done. Regardless of
> choices of national language, the book is quite thoroughly
> descrptive about ASN.1, regarding: the basis and motivation, for
> the development of ASN.1; the language and the specific syntax of
> ASN.1; some example-type uses of ASN.1, "to get the reader going,
> by".
>
> (Yes, this is not an advertisement; I just wanted to be thorough, heh.)
>
>[2] ASN.1 standards:
> http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html
> http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/
> ...most, if not all of which, are available, freely, for download.
>
> (The ITU, thus far, has liked to charge fees, for download of some
> other standards of theirs; it looks like they've put ASN.1 "in the
> clear", though.)
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------090003020509030804050809
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Sean,<br>
<br>
Oh my goodness, just what the world needs.&nbsp; Thousands upon thousands of
pages of specification to define more standard data exchange
mechanisms.&nbsp; This certainly does look to overlap heavily with other
standards efforts.&nbsp; After all, who isn't claiming this:<br>
<blockquote>ASN.1, or Abstract Syntax Notation One, is an International
Standards
Organization (ISO) data representation format used to achieve
interoperability between platforms.<br>
</blockquote>
Certainly XML, XMI, and Corba will make this claim too.&nbsp; Do you know
how this particular data representation format defined by a standards
body to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all the
others?<br>
<br>
<br>
Sean Champ wrote:
<blockquote cite="midpan.2004.12.03.03.40.26.797094@commonwerx.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello.

* Background:

I've started looking into ASN.1, for incorporation into some project

I've worked with SGML and XML, and I've not been terribly satisfied with
XML Schemas, honestly -- and I am not looking to start a "flame war" about
it, but maybe it will serve to explain the background of this message.

I've not been terribly satisfied with XML Schemas, myself, and I am quite
satisfied, with what I'm seeing about (and of) ASN.1[1].

I'd noticed, also, that there are some standards, available from the
ITU[2], for tranlsation-or-something between ASN.1 and XML/XML-Schema
syntaxes.

Now, I don't know if XMI has "anything, directly technical, to do with
any of this" -- though, of course, it seems that XMI might accomplish
an end simliar to that of ASN.1. (I've not read much of anything about
XMI, but I think I can guess the intention of it -- and yet, I cannot
guess about how it plays in with-or-beside SOAP; I saw XML mentioned,
in one of the UML 2.0 standards drafts; it seemed worth mentioning,
here, also).


* Question:

Has anyone looked at any of the stuff (standards and/or tools) for
managign XML&lt;-&gt;ASN.1 "translation" work?

If so: What has anyone thought of it?

* Motivation

Perhaps ASN.1&lt;-&gt;XML "stuff" could ever be pertinent for the Eclipse
project - "off in the R&amp;D wing of things, for now", heh.

(and beside that: I'll have to "dig" into some more research about
such standards &amp; tools, myself. It will be easier, probably, if I know
of anyone who's found such standards/tools to be useful, now or in a
clear-enough prospective end)


** end **

hadios o wiedersehen,


---
Sean Champ
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:schamp@commonwerx.org">schamp@commonwerx.org</a>
Fresno, California



Footnotes:
[1] "FWIW", there is one /very well written/ book about ASN.1, freely
avaialable for download, at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html">http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html</a>
It was written, originally, in French, I think; the version,
available at the page referenced, above, was translated into
English, and the translation was quite well done. Regardless of
choices of national language, the book is quite thoroughly
descrptive about ASN.1, regarding: the basis and motivation, for
the development of ASN.1; the language and the specific syntax of
ASN.1; some example-type uses of ASN.1, "to get the reader going,
by".

(Yes, this is not an advertisement; I just wanted to be thorough, heh.)

[2] ASN.1 standards:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html">http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/">http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/</a>
...most, if not all of which, are available, freely, for download.

(The ITU, thus far, has liked to charge fees, for download of some
other standards of theirs; it looks like they've put ASN.1 "in the
clear", though.)




</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------090003020509030804050809--
Re: XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #55991 is a reply to message #55896] Mon, 06 December 2004 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: rob.tice.k-int.com

Hi Ed - apologies if you know most of this already

ASN.1 has been around for many moons (circa 1984) . Its main plus point is
its streamlined representation and therefore its efficiency of transport in
low bandwidth systems (as opposed to big xml structures and the relative
inefficiency of web services etc!).

It is generally encoded into octets using BER (or PER) encoding and then
transmitted. One example of its use is to facilitate the data exchange
between Z39.50 search clients and remote servers using binary encoded search
strings and returning binary encoded search results.


So it could claim to be superior in efficiency terms :)

Cheers

Rob Tice


Ed Merks wrote:

Do you know how this particular data representation format defined by a
standards body to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all
the others?
Re: XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #56043 is a reply to message #55991] Mon, 06 December 2004 23:10 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com

Rob,

I didn't know this. Thanks for the info.


Rob Tice wrote:

>Hi Ed - apologies if you know most of this already
>
>ASN.1 has been around for many moons (circa 1984) . Its main plus point is
>its streamlined representation and therefore its efficiency of transport in
>low bandwidth systems (as opposed to big xml structures and the relative
>inefficiency of web services etc!).
>
>It is generally encoded into octets using BER (or PER) encoding and then
>transmitted. One example of its use is to facilitate the data exchange
>between Z39.50 search clients and remote servers using binary encoded search
>strings and returning binary encoded search results.
>
>
>So it could claim to be superior in efficiency terms :)
>
>Cheers
>
>Rob Tice
>
>
>Ed Merks wrote:
>
>Do you know how this particular data representation format defined by a
>standards body to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all
>the others?
>
>
>
>
Re: XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #593018 is a reply to message #55841] Fri, 03 December 2004 10:40 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26047
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090003020509030804050809
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sean,

Oh my goodness, just what the world needs. Thousands upon thousands of
pages of specification to define more standard data exchange
mechanisms. This certainly does look to overlap heavily with other
standards efforts. After all, who isn't claiming this:

ASN.1, or Abstract Syntax Notation One, is an International
Standards Organization (ISO) data representation format used to
achieve interoperability between platforms.

Certainly XML, XMI, and Corba will make this claim too. Do you know how
this particular data representation format defined by a standards body
to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all the others?


Sean Champ wrote:

>Hello.
>
>* Background:
>
>I've started looking into ASN.1, for incorporation into some project
>
>I've worked with SGML and XML, and I've not been terribly satisfied with
>XML Schemas, honestly -- and I am not looking to start a "flame war" about
>it, but maybe it will serve to explain the background of this message.
>
>I've not been terribly satisfied with XML Schemas, myself, and I am quite
>satisfied, with what I'm seeing about (and of) ASN.1[1].
>
>I'd noticed, also, that there are some standards, available from the
>ITU[2], for tranlsation-or-something between ASN.1 and XML/XML-Schema
>syntaxes.
>
>Now, I don't know if XMI has "anything, directly technical, to do with
>any of this" -- though, of course, it seems that XMI might accomplish
>an end simliar to that of ASN.1. (I've not read much of anything about
>XMI, but I think I can guess the intention of it -- and yet, I cannot
>guess about how it plays in with-or-beside SOAP; I saw XML mentioned,
>in one of the UML 2.0 standards drafts; it seemed worth mentioning,
>here, also).
>
>
>* Question:
>
>Has anyone looked at any of the stuff (standards and/or tools) for
>managign XML<->ASN.1 "translation" work?
>
>If so: What has anyone thought of it?
>
>* Motivation
>
>Perhaps ASN.1<->XML "stuff" could ever be pertinent for the Eclipse
>project - "off in the R&D wing of things, for now", heh.
>
>(and beside that: I'll have to "dig" into some more research about
>such standards & tools, myself. It will be easier, probably, if I know
>of anyone who's found such standards/tools to be useful, now or in a
>clear-enough prospective end)
>
>
>** end **
>
>hadios o wiedersehen,
>
>
>---
>Sean Champ
>schamp@commonwerx.org
>Fresno, California
>
>
>
>Footnotes:
>[1] "FWIW", there is one /very well written/ book about ASN.1, freely
> avaialable for download, at:
> http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html
> It was written, originally, in French, I think; the version,
> available at the page referenced, above, was translated into
> English, and the translation was quite well done. Regardless of
> choices of national language, the book is quite thoroughly
> descrptive about ASN.1, regarding: the basis and motivation, for
> the development of ASN.1; the language and the specific syntax of
> ASN.1; some example-type uses of ASN.1, "to get the reader going,
> by".
>
> (Yes, this is not an advertisement; I just wanted to be thorough, heh.)
>
>[2] ASN.1 standards:
> http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html
> http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/
> ...most, if not all of which, are available, freely, for download.
>
> (The ITU, thus far, has liked to charge fees, for download of some
> other standards of theirs; it looks like they've put ASN.1 "in the
> clear", though.)
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------090003020509030804050809
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Sean,<br>
<br>
Oh my goodness, just what the world needs.&nbsp; Thousands upon thousands of
pages of specification to define more standard data exchange
mechanisms.&nbsp; This certainly does look to overlap heavily with other
standards efforts.&nbsp; After all, who isn't claiming this:<br>
<blockquote>ASN.1, or Abstract Syntax Notation One, is an International
Standards
Organization (ISO) data representation format used to achieve
interoperability between platforms.<br>
</blockquote>
Certainly XML, XMI, and Corba will make this claim too.&nbsp; Do you know
how this particular data representation format defined by a standards
body to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all the
others?<br>
<br>
<br>
Sean Champ wrote:
<blockquote cite="midpan.2004.12.03.03.40.26.797094@commonwerx.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello.

* Background:

I've started looking into ASN.1, for incorporation into some project

I've worked with SGML and XML, and I've not been terribly satisfied with
XML Schemas, honestly -- and I am not looking to start a "flame war" about
it, but maybe it will serve to explain the background of this message.

I've not been terribly satisfied with XML Schemas, myself, and I am quite
satisfied, with what I'm seeing about (and of) ASN.1[1].

I'd noticed, also, that there are some standards, available from the
ITU[2], for tranlsation-or-something between ASN.1 and XML/XML-Schema
syntaxes.

Now, I don't know if XMI has "anything, directly technical, to do with
any of this" -- though, of course, it seems that XMI might accomplish
an end simliar to that of ASN.1. (I've not read much of anything about
XMI, but I think I can guess the intention of it -- and yet, I cannot
guess about how it plays in with-or-beside SOAP; I saw XML mentioned,
in one of the UML 2.0 standards drafts; it seemed worth mentioning,
here, also).


* Question:

Has anyone looked at any of the stuff (standards and/or tools) for
managign XML&lt;-&gt;ASN.1 "translation" work?

If so: What has anyone thought of it?

* Motivation

Perhaps ASN.1&lt;-&gt;XML "stuff" could ever be pertinent for the Eclipse
project - "off in the R&amp;D wing of things, for now", heh.

(and beside that: I'll have to "dig" into some more research about
such standards &amp; tools, myself. It will be easier, probably, if I know
of anyone who's found such standards/tools to be useful, now or in a
clear-enough prospective end)


** end **

hadios o wiedersehen,


---
Sean Champ
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:schamp@commonwerx.org">schamp@commonwerx.org</a>
Fresno, California



Footnotes:
[1] "FWIW", there is one /very well written/ book about ASN.1, freely
avaialable for download, at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html">http://www.oss.com/asn1/dubuisson.html</a>
It was written, originally, in French, I think; the version,
available at the page referenced, above, was translated into
English, and the translation was quite well done. Regardless of
choices of national language, the book is quite thoroughly
descrptive about ASN.1, regarding: the basis and motivation, for
the development of ASN.1; the language and the specific syntax of
ASN.1; some example-type uses of ASN.1, "to get the reader going,
by".

(Yes, this is not an advertisement; I just wanted to be thorough, heh.)

[2] ASN.1 standards:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html">http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com07/asn1recs.html</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/">http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com17/languages/</a>
...most, if not all of which, are available, freely, for download.

(The ITU, thus far, has liked to charge fees, for download of some
other standards of theirs; it looks like they've put ASN.1 "in the
clear", though.)




</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------090003020509030804050809--
Re: XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #593074 is a reply to message #55896] Mon, 06 December 2004 22:44 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: rob.tice.k-int.com

Hi Ed - apologies if you know most of this already

ASN.1 has been around for many moons (circa 1984) . Its main plus point is
its streamlined representation and therefore its efficiency of transport in
low bandwidth systems (as opposed to big xml structures and the relative
inefficiency of web services etc!).

It is generally encoded into octets using BER (or PER) encoding and then
transmitted. One example of its use is to facilitate the data exchange
between Z39.50 search clients and remote servers using binary encoded search
strings and returning binary encoded search results.


So it could claim to be superior in efficiency terms :)

Cheers

Rob Tice


Ed Merks wrote:

Do you know how this particular data representation format defined by a
standards body to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all
the others?
Re: XML <-> ASN.1 : Developer response? [message #593097 is a reply to message #55991] Mon, 06 December 2004 23:10 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26047
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Rob,

I didn't know this. Thanks for the info.


Rob Tice wrote:

>Hi Ed - apologies if you know most of this already
>
>ASN.1 has been around for many moons (circa 1984) . Its main plus point is
>its streamlined representation and therefore its efficiency of transport in
>low bandwidth systems (as opposed to big xml structures and the relative
>inefficiency of web services etc!).
>
>It is generally encoded into octets using BER (or PER) encoding and then
>transmitted. One example of its use is to facilitate the data exchange
>between Z39.50 search clients and remote servers using binary encoded search
>strings and returning binary encoded search results.
>
>
>So it could claim to be superior in efficiency terms :)
>
>Cheers
>
>Rob Tice
>
>
>Ed Merks wrote:
>
>Do you know how this particular data representation format defined by a
>standards body to facility interoperability, claims to be superior to all
>the others?
>
>
>
>
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