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Home » Modeling » EMF "Technology" (Ecore Tools, EMFatic, etc)  » Re: Validation produces Duplicate EModelElement without reason
Re: Validation produces Duplicate EModelElement without reason [message #555009] Wed, 25 August 2010 07:16 Go to next message
Sven Efftinge is currently offline Sven EfftingeFriend
Messages: 1771
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Am 8/24/10 4:29 PM, schrieb Andy Carpenter:
>
>> Maybe you should start by adding your code to a bugzilla, so we can
>> discuss whether it is a better basis for the great shiny textual Ecore
>> editor of our future :-)
>
> Added as https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=323501
>
> Andy.

Thanks. Do you have the time to maintain and further develop it under
Eclipse EMFT? If yes I'ld like to propose you as a committer.

I'm currently running a research project (called Xbase) where we develop
a base language in Xtext which is meant to be reused and extended by
other languages (I'll blog about it within the next days). One language
we want to do as apart of the research project is a textual language for
Ecore which supports expressing behavior in operations and derived
features (i.e reusing Xbase). We will definitely build that language and
would like to host it under EMFatic as well (we don't neccessarily need
to, but I think it belongs there).

But I also don't want to hinder anyone from going into different
directions (like what Ed Willink did with the OCL in Ecore). That's all
interesting and valuable.

I'm just saying this because we might end up with two different
languages. Maybe it will be like in rest of modeling one OMG standards
based (i.e. using OCL) and one which is not...

Thoughts?

Sven

--
--
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--
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Re: Validation produces Duplicate EModelElement without reason [message #555049 is a reply to message #555009] Wed, 25 August 2010 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Carpenter is currently offline Andy CarpenterFriend
Messages: 145
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Sven,

>>> Maybe you should start by adding your code to a bugzilla, so we can
>>> discuss whether it is a better basis for the great shiny textual Ecore
>>> editor of our future :-)
>>
>> Added as https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=323501
>
> Thanks. Do you have the time to maintain and further develop it under
> Eclipse EMFT? If yes I'ld like to propose you as a committer.

Yes, I have the time to do this (I use it in my teaching
and have an interest in keeping it running).

> I'm currently running a research project (called Xbase) where we develop
> a base language in Xtext which is meant to be reused and extended by
> other languages (I'll blog about it within the next days). One language
> we want to do as apart of the research project is a textual language for
> Ecore which supports expressing behavior in operations and derived
> features (i.e reusing Xbase). We will definitely build that language and
> would like to host it under EMFatic as well (we don't neccessarily need
> to, but I think it belongs there).
>
> But I also don't want to hinder anyone from going into different
> directions (like what Ed Willink did with the OCL in Ecore). That's all
> interesting and valuable.
>
> I'm just saying this because we might end up with two different
> languages. Maybe it will be like in rest of modeling one OMG standards
> based (i.e. using OCL) and one which is not...
>
> Thoughts?

In the longer term this sounds interesting. My interest is in a language
in which models that include invariants can be expressed and from
which implementations that include invariant checking can be
generated. As part of this, I want checking of the invariant expressions
at model definition time, rather than runtime. At the moment,
Emfatic with OCL delegates does this for me. However, if another
language comes along that has good tooling and support, then
I might well switch.

Andy.
Re: Validation produces Duplicate EModelElement without reason [message #555059 is a reply to message #555049] Wed, 25 August 2010 10:56 Go to previous message
Hallvard Traetteberg is currently offline Hallvard TraettebergFriend
Messages: 601
Registered: July 2009
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Senior Member
On 25.08.10 11.53, Andy Carpenter wrote:
>> I'm just saying this because we might end up with two different
>> languages. Maybe it will be like in rest of modeling one OMG standards
>> based (i.e. using OCL) and one which is not...
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> In the longer term this sounds interesting. My interest is in a language
> in which models that include invariants can be expressed and from
> which implementations that include invariant checking can be
> generated. As part of this, I want checking of the invariant expressions
> at model definition time, rather than runtime. At the moment,
> Emfatic with OCL delegates does this for me. However, if another
> language comes along that has good tooling and support, then
> I might well switch.

I have a similar interest (models with invariants etc), and would like
to help in making emfatic better for this (and as a general ecore
editor). I think it is important to support multiple languages, a bit
like ecore does with its delegates. There are OCL delegates, I have
javascript delegates implemented, the Epsilon people might want to
support EOL delegates etc. I understand it is difficult to support
mixins in Xtext, but providing a base that specific languages may extend
would be very nice.

Hallvard
Re: Validation produces Duplicate EModelElement without reason [message #623156 is a reply to message #555009] Wed, 25 August 2010 09:53 Go to previous message
Andy Carpenter is currently offline Andy CarpenterFriend
Messages: 145
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Sven,

>>> Maybe you should start by adding your code to a bugzilla, so we can
>>> discuss whether it is a better basis for the great shiny textual Ecore
>>> editor of our future :-)
>>
>> Added as https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=323501
>
> Thanks. Do you have the time to maintain and further develop it under
> Eclipse EMFT? If yes I'ld like to propose you as a committer.

Yes, I have the time to do this (I use it in my teaching
and have an interest in keeping it running).

> I'm currently running a research project (called Xbase) where we develop
> a base language in Xtext which is meant to be reused and extended by
> other languages (I'll blog about it within the next days). One language
> we want to do as apart of the research project is a textual language for
> Ecore which supports expressing behavior in operations and derived
> features (i.e reusing Xbase). We will definitely build that language and
> would like to host it under EMFatic as well (we don't neccessarily need
> to, but I think it belongs there).
>
> But I also don't want to hinder anyone from going into different
> directions (like what Ed Willink did with the OCL in Ecore). That's all
> interesting and valuable.
>
> I'm just saying this because we might end up with two different
> languages. Maybe it will be like in rest of modeling one OMG standards
> based (i.e. using OCL) and one which is not...
>
> Thoughts?

In the longer term this sounds interesting. My interest is in a language
in which models that include invariants can be expressed and from
which implementations that include invariant checking can be
generated. As part of this, I want checking of the invariant expressions
at model definition time, rather than runtime. At the moment,
Emfatic with OCL delegates does this for me. However, if another
language comes along that has good tooling and support, then
I might well switch.

Andy.
Re: Validation produces Duplicate EModelElement without reason [message #623157 is a reply to message #555049] Wed, 25 August 2010 10:56 Go to previous message
Hallvard Traetteberg is currently offline Hallvard TraettebergFriend
Messages: 601
Registered: July 2009
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Senior Member
On 25.08.10 11.53, Andy Carpenter wrote:
>> I'm just saying this because we might end up with two different
>> languages. Maybe it will be like in rest of modeling one OMG standards
>> based (i.e. using OCL) and one which is not...
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> In the longer term this sounds interesting. My interest is in a language
> in which models that include invariants can be expressed and from
> which implementations that include invariant checking can be
> generated. As part of this, I want checking of the invariant expressions
> at model definition time, rather than runtime. At the moment,
> Emfatic with OCL delegates does this for me. However, if another
> language comes along that has good tooling and support, then
> I might well switch.

I have a similar interest (models with invariants etc), and would like
to help in making emfatic better for this (and as a general ecore
editor). I think it is important to support multiple languages, a bit
like ecore does with its delegates. There are OCL delegates, I have
javascript delegates implemented, the Epsilon people might want to
support EOL delegates etc. I understand it is difficult to support
mixins in Xtext, but providing a base that specific languages may extend
would be very nice.

Hallvard
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