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E4 versus E3 for Eclipse applications [message #535358] Sat, 22 May 2010 18:05 Go to next message
Dean Schulze is currently offline Dean Schulze
Messages: 24
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I've been working my way through a couple of books on how to create RCP applications using Eclipse 3. I'm about ready to give up on Eclipse RCP and go back to Swing for my application. Among my concerns about Eclipse RCP are the shortcomings of E3 as an IDE for developing Eclipse applications.

In E3 the wizards create some basic classes and supporting files, but I've noticed that if I move one of the generated classes (View, Perspective, etc.) to a different package or rename the class itself that 33 does not update the plugin.xml file. I have to do this manually. That's pretty lame for an IDE.

I've also noticed that E3 cannot validate the various values in an RCP projects "glue" files. I changed some package names from the ridiculous values that the wizards create and now when I launch the project I get an Exception that says "No application id has been found". I didn't change any id values in plugin.xml or manifest.mf so I don't know what the problem is.

E3 offers no help in diagnosing this problem. When I validate the entire project E3 says that no errors were found, but when I launch the application it crashes with the above Exception. E3 RCP project validation simply doesn't work.

I also haven't found any documentation on how the various values in the "glue" files like plugin.xml, manifest.mf, and the product file are related to each other and the rest of the project files. The whole E3 approach with the various glue files seems poorly designed and brittle.

My question is whether E4 is better in this regard. Can E4 validate that the values in its various files are consistent and correct? (I don't know what those files are since I haven't worked with E4.) Can E4 diagnose problems between its various configuration files? Can E4 move or rename files without me having to manually update other files with the new package or class names?

If I was to move to E4 is it reasonable to expect that after a few days of working through whatever E4 tutorials are available that I would be able to get some basic GUI functionality working, or is that unrealistic?

Thanks.

Dean


Re: E4 versus E3 for Eclipse applications [message #535377 is a reply to message #535358] Sat, 22 May 2010 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Schindl is currently offline Thomas Schindl
Messages: 5332
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

I'm afraid to say this but what you are having trouble with is the
tooling (in your case it is PDE) and when we talk about tooling e4 is
worse than 3.x because the underlying technology is brand new.

We are currently focusing on the technical aspect which is a lot of work
and so the current team working on e4 is not (yet) able to provide a
tooling you are requesting.

Still one thing is remarkable in e4. There's one common centric
application model and things are not spread around in plugin.xml files,
.... .

Still if you want to stay in the Eclipse space you can use plain SWT and
JFace to write your applications. This has the advantage that you can
reuse it easily within Eclipse.

Beside that I'd suggest you post your questions, feature requests, ...
to the eclipse.platform.pde newsgroup which can give you pointers on
your 3.x tooling problems.

Tom

Am 22.05.10 20:05, schrieb Dean Schulze:
> I've been working my way through a couple of books on how to create RCP
> applications using Eclipse 3. I'm about ready to give up on Eclipse RCP
> and go back to Swing for my application. Among my concerns about
> Eclipse RCP are the shortcomings of E3 as an IDE for developing Eclipse
> applications.
>
> In E3 the wizards create some basic classes and supporting files, but
> I've noticed that if I move one of the generated classes (View,
> Perspective, etc.) to a different package or rename the class itself
> that 33 does not update the plugin.xml file. I have to do this
> manually. That's pretty lame for an IDE.
>
> I've also noticed that E3 cannot validate the various values in an RCP
> projects "glue" files. I changed some package names from the ridiculous
> values that the wizards create and now when I launch the project I get
> an Exception that says "No application id has been found". I didn't
> change any id values in plugin.xml or manifest.mf so I don't know what
> the problem is.
>
> E3 offers no help in diagnosing this problem. When I validate the
> entire project E3 says that no errors were found, but when I launch the
> application it crashes with the above Exception. E3 RCP project
> validation simply doesn't work.
>
> I also haven't found any documentation on how the various values in the
> "glue" files like plugin.xml, manifest.mf, and the product file are
> related to each other and the rest of the project files. The whole E3
> approach with the various glue files seems poorly designed and brittle.
>
> My question is whether E4 is better in this regard. Can E4 validate
> that the values in its various files are consistent and correct? (I
> don't know what those files are since I haven't worked with E4.) Can E4
> diagnose problems between its various configuration files? Can E4 move
> or rename files without me having to manually update other files with
> the new package or class names?
>
> If I was to move to E4 is it reasonable to expect that after a few days
> of working through whatever E4 tutorials are available that I would be
> able to get some basic GUI functionality working, or is that unrealistic?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dean
>
>
>
Re: E4 versus E3 for Eclipse applications [message #535851 is a reply to message #535377] Wed, 26 May 2010 01:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dean Schulze is currently offline Dean Schulze
Messages: 24
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Thanks, Tom.

I'm glad to hear that E4 has a cleaner configuration. I prefer to learn new frameworks at the text editor level before using the tools anyway.

I'll try a couple of the E4 tutorials and see how it goes.
Re: E4 versus E3 for Eclipse applications [message #576749 is a reply to message #535377] Wed, 26 May 2010 01:45 Go to previous message
Dean Schulze is currently offline Dean Schulze
Messages: 24
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Thanks, Tom.

I'm glad to hear that E4 has a cleaner configuration. I prefer to learn new frameworks at the text editor level before using the tools anyway.

I'll try a couple of the E4 tutorials and see how it goes.
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