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Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #499036] Thu, 19 November 2009 15:42 Go to next message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Jan,

Sorry for late reply, I was abroad.
I've added MoDisco newsgroup to the discussion. Maybe they are interested.

> Krzysztof,
>
> I more or less dived into the same "adventure" as you and the others in
> this thread. I have the four solutions on my investigation agenda which
> were mentioned already, the EMF example, JEM, MoDisc and oAW aka
> Xtext/Xtend/Xpand
>
> JEM seems to be outdated and out of the game from the beginning. I've
> started with the EMF example and MoDisc by now. The first one does not
> support serialization but seems to be fine for my purpose already since
> I do only need structure information for time being.

For know I am using MoDisco J2SE5 metamodel/discoverer with small
changes (I have removed ATL dependencies, as I don't use J2SE5 -> KDM ->
UML, nor ATL).

MoDisco have a bit newer (and as they claim better) model/discoverer
http://wiki.eclipse.org/MoDisco/Java , thus I will probably move to it
one day. The metamodel is not much different, so it should be easy.

> However, serialization will be quickly become an issue. You mentioned
> that you did wrote some templates and I'm not quite sure for which of
> the technologies you actually did that and (more important) whether you
> could imagine to share your results with us ;-)

I have working but incomplete templates in Eclipse M2T Xpand for
generating Java code from J2SE5 metamodel. They are not "production
quality". As I said before they do not handle comments, generics and
some basic constructs are missing. It is possible that they have some
errors, as they was not tested much. Nevertheless they works for me ;)

I can share them, preferably as open source contribution.
But, AFAIK MoDisco plans to develop some kind of serialization for Java
model. I am not sure will it be Java or Acceleo based serialization though.

> I'm also wondering whether there is any attempt to further develop the
> EMF example and add serialization. The project seems to be still alive
> at least (see comments from Marcelo in another thread at
> http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=41414 8&S=bc1ad57bb4e7b26aa4a584e876ec7c7e)

I don't know that, you can ask on EMF forum.

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #499187 is a reply to message #499036] Fri, 20 November 2009 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hugo Bruneliere is currently offline Hugo Bruneliere
Messages: 607
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Krzysztof,

Krzysztof Kowalczyk a écrit :
> Jan,
>
> Sorry for late reply, I was abroad.
> I've added MoDisco newsgroup to the discussion. Maybe they are interested.
>
>> Krzysztof,
>>
>> I more or less dived into the same "adventure" as you and the others
>> in this thread. I have the four solutions on my investigation agenda
>> which were mentioned already, the EMF example, JEM, MoDisc and oAW aka
>> Xtext/Xtend/Xpand
>>
>> JEM seems to be outdated and out of the game from the beginning. I've
>> started with the EMF example and MoDisc by now. The first one does not
>> support serialization but seems to be fine for my purpose already
>> since I do only need structure information for time being.
>
> For know I am using MoDisco J2SE5 metamodel/discoverer with small
> changes (I have removed ATL dependencies, as I don't use J2SE5 -> KDM ->
> UML, nor ATL).
>
> MoDisco have a bit newer (and as they claim better) model/discoverer
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/MoDisco/Java , thus I will probably move to it
> one day. The metamodel is not much different, so it should be easy.

Thanks for your interest in MoDisco.

Please, don't hesitate to provide your feedback on this new Java
metamodel implementation (and corresponding discoverer) ;-)

>
>> However, serialization will be quickly become an issue. You mentioned
>> that you did wrote some templates and I'm not quite sure for which of
>> the technologies you actually did that and (more important) whether
>> you could imagine to share your results with us ;-)
>
> I have working but incomplete templates in Eclipse M2T Xpand for
> generating Java code from J2SE5 metamodel. They are not "production
> quality". As I said before they do not handle comments, generics and
> some basic constructs are missing. It is possible that they have some
> errors, as they was not tested much. Nevertheless they works for me ;)
>
> I can share them, preferably as open source contribution.
> But, AFAIK MoDisco plans to develop some kind of serialization for Java
> model. I am not sure will it be Java or Acceleo based serialization though.

I would be great to have a standard serialization available for the Java
metamodel.

This is something we could discuss and your contribution could be
potentially made available via MoDisco at some point...

Best regards,

Hugo

>
>> I'm also wondering whether there is any attempt to further develop the
>> EMF example and add serialization. The project seems to be still alive
>> at least (see comments from Marcelo in another thread at
>> http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=41414 8&S=bc1ad57bb4e7b26aa4a584e876ec7c7e)
>
>
> I don't know that, you can ask on EMF forum.
>
> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk


--
-------------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (INRIA & EMN) - Room B206
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
4, rue Alfred Kastler
44307 Nantes Cedex 3 - France
Office: +33 (0)2 51 85 82 21
EMail: hugo.bruneliere@inria.fr
-------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (Inria, EMN & LINA)
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
Nantes - France
------------------------------------------
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #499197 is a reply to message #499036] Fri, 20 November 2009 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jan Mauersberger is currently offline Jan Mauersberger
Messages: 119
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Krzysztof,

thanks for the reply and pointing out the modisco newsgroup.

> For know I am using MoDisco J2SE5 metamodel/discoverer with small
> changes (I have removed ATL dependencies, as I don't use J2SE5 -> KDM ->
> UML, nor ATL).
>
> MoDisco have a bit newer (and as they claim better) model/discoverer
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/MoDisco/Java , thus I will probably move to it
> one day. The metamodel is not much different, so it should be easy.

I use the same meta model and also do not require KDM etc. However, I
wasn't aware the that the Java meta model is newer - I assumed the other
way around ;-)

> I can share them, preferably as open source contribution.
> But, AFAIK MoDisco plans to develop some kind of serialization for Java
> model. I am not sure will it be Java or Acceleo based serialization though.

I do support that idea and according to Hugo's reply they are interested
in standard Java serialization too.

Best regards
Jan
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #499203 is a reply to message #499197] Fri, 20 November 2009 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Jan Mauersberger:
> I use the same meta model and also do not require KDM etc. However, I
> wasn't aware the that the Java meta model is newer - I assumed the other
> way around ;-)

There are 3 models right know - JavaAST (the oldest one), J2SE5 and
Java. The third one is recommended AFAIK.


Hugo Bruneliere,
It seems that MoDisco is devoted to ATL / Acceleo and my work is in
Xpand / Xtend. Does it matter ?

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #499556 is a reply to message #499036] Mon, 23 November 2009 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fabien Giquel is currently offline Fabien Giquel
Messages: 138
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Krzysztof,

I will complete Hugo's answer :

Yes, the 'Java' metamodel is now the recommended one ('JavaAST' et 'J2SE5' will become 'deprecated').

We are currently working on a serialization for 'Java' models, which will be released for the end of the year.
This serialization will cover all the aspects of the Java language.

Nevertheless, the generations rules that you already wrote for 'J2SE5' are welcome. It could be made available via MoDisco for 'J2SE5' models, whatever the technology used (Acceleo, Xpand... ), and even if all aspects of the Java language are not managed.

Best regards.


----------------------------------------------------
Fabien GIQUEL
R&D Engineer
Mia-Software
4, rue du Château de l'Eraudiere
44324 NANTES CEDEX 03
----------------------------------------------------
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #499561 is a reply to message #499203] Mon, 23 November 2009 11:17 Go to previous message
Hugo Bruneliere is currently offline Hugo Bruneliere
Messages: 607
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Krzysztof,

Krzysztof Kowalczyk a écrit :
> Jan Mauersberger:
>> I use the same meta model and also do not require KDM etc. However, I
>> wasn't aware the that the Java meta model is newer - I assumed the
>> other way around ;-)
>
> There are 3 models right know - JavaAST (the oldest one), J2SE5 and
> Java. The third one is recommended AFAIK.

You're right! These three metamodels correspond to the several
iterations that have been made in order to reach a fully satisfying
version, the Java metamodel being this final version.
>
>
> Hugo Bruneliere,
> It seems that MoDisco is devoted to ATL / Acceleo and my work is in
> Xpand / Xtend. Does it matter ?
>

It is true that our current works mainly use ATL as a M2M technology and
Acceleo as a M2T one.

However, MoDisco is not dependent from these technologies: it is
designed so that any kind of M2M or M2T technology may be used within a
given reverse-engineering process.
According to this, several drivers for such different technologies have
already been committed to the project.
Of course, we are open to potential contributors of other drivers for
other technologies ;-)

Best regards,

Hugo

> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk


--
-------------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (INRIA & EMN) - Room B206
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
4, rue Alfred Kastler
44307 Nantes Cedex 3 - France
Office: +33 (0)2 51 85 82 21
EMail: hugo.bruneliere@inria.fr
-------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (Inria, EMN & LINA)
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
Nantes - France
------------------------------------------
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #573761 is a reply to message #499036] Fri, 20 November 2009 10:51 Go to previous message
Hugo Bruneliere is currently offline Hugo Bruneliere
Messages: 607
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Krzysztof,

Krzysztof Kowalczyk a écrit :
> Jan,
>
> Sorry for late reply, I was abroad.
> I've added MoDisco newsgroup to the discussion. Maybe they are interested.
>
>> Krzysztof,
>>
>> I more or less dived into the same "adventure" as you and the others
>> in this thread. I have the four solutions on my investigation agenda
>> which were mentioned already, the EMF example, JEM, MoDisc and oAW aka
>> Xtext/Xtend/Xpand
>>
>> JEM seems to be outdated and out of the game from the beginning. I've
>> started with the EMF example and MoDisc by now. The first one does not
>> support serialization but seems to be fine for my purpose already
>> since I do only need structure information for time being.
>
> For know I am using MoDisco J2SE5 metamodel/discoverer with small
> changes (I have removed ATL dependencies, as I don't use J2SE5 -> KDM ->
> UML, nor ATL).
>
> MoDisco have a bit newer (and as they claim better) model/discoverer
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/MoDisco/Java , thus I will probably move to it
> one day. The metamodel is not much different, so it should be easy.

Thanks for your interest in MoDisco.

Please, don't hesitate to provide your feedback on this new Java
metamodel implementation (and corresponding discoverer) ;-)

>
>> However, serialization will be quickly become an issue. You mentioned
>> that you did wrote some templates and I'm not quite sure for which of
>> the technologies you actually did that and (more important) whether
>> you could imagine to share your results with us ;-)
>
> I have working but incomplete templates in Eclipse M2T Xpand for
> generating Java code from J2SE5 metamodel. They are not "production
> quality". As I said before they do not handle comments, generics and
> some basic constructs are missing. It is possible that they have some
> errors, as they was not tested much. Nevertheless they works for me ;)
>
> I can share them, preferably as open source contribution.
> But, AFAIK MoDisco plans to develop some kind of serialization for Java
> model. I am not sure will it be Java or Acceleo based serialization though.

I would be great to have a standard serialization available for the Java
metamodel.

This is something we could discuss and your contribution could be
potentially made available via MoDisco at some point...

Best regards,

Hugo

>
>> I'm also wondering whether there is any attempt to further develop the
>> EMF example and add serialization. The project seems to be still alive
>> at least (see comments from Marcelo in another thread at
>> http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=41414 8&S=bc1ad57bb4e7b26aa4a584e876ec7c7e)
>
>
> I don't know that, you can ask on EMF forum.
>
> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk


--
-------------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (INRIA & EMN) - Room B206
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
4, rue Alfred Kastler
44307 Nantes Cedex 3 - France
Office: +33 (0)2 51 85 82 21
EMail: hugo.bruneliere@inria.fr
-------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (Inria, EMN & LINA)
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
Nantes - France
------------------------------------------
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #573777 is a reply to message #499036] Fri, 20 November 2009 11:22 Go to previous message
Jan Mauersberger is currently offline Jan Mauersberger
Messages: 119
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Krzysztof,

thanks for the reply and pointing out the modisco newsgroup.

> For know I am using MoDisco J2SE5 metamodel/discoverer with small
> changes (I have removed ATL dependencies, as I don't use J2SE5 -> KDM ->
> UML, nor ATL).
>
> MoDisco have a bit newer (and as they claim better) model/discoverer
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/MoDisco/Java , thus I will probably move to it
> one day. The metamodel is not much different, so it should be easy.

I use the same meta model and also do not require KDM etc. However, I
wasn't aware the that the Java meta model is newer - I assumed the other
way around ;-)

> I can share them, preferably as open source contribution.
> But, AFAIK MoDisco plans to develop some kind of serialization for Java
> model. I am not sure will it be Java or Acceleo based serialization though.

I do support that idea and according to Hugo's reply they are interested
in standard Java serialization too.

Best regards
Jan
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #573785 is a reply to message #499197] Fri, 20 November 2009 12:21 Go to previous message
Krzysztof Kowalczyk is currently offline Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Jan Mauersberger:
> I use the same meta model and also do not require KDM etc. However, I
> wasn't aware the that the Java meta model is newer - I assumed the other
> way around ;-)

There are 3 models right know - JavaAST (the oldest one), J2SE5 and
Java. The third one is recommended AFAIK.


Hugo Bruneliere,
It seems that MoDisco is devoted to ATL / Acceleo and my work is in
Xpand / Xtend. Does it matter ?

Regards,
Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #573796 is a reply to message #499036] Mon, 23 November 2009 11:07 Go to previous message
Fabien Giquel is currently offline Fabien Giquel
Messages: 138
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Krzysztof,

I will complete Hugo's answer :

Yes, the 'Java' metamodel is now the recommended one ('JavaAST' et 'J2SE5' will become 'deprecated').

We are currently working on a serialization for 'Java' models, which will be released for the end of the year.
This serialization will cover all the aspects of the Java language.

Nevertheless, the generations rules that you already wrote for 'J2SE5' are welcome. It could be made available via MoDisco for 'J2SE5' models, whatever the technology used (Acceleo, Xpand... ), and even if all aspects of the Java language are not managed.

Best regards.
--
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
Fabien GIQUEL
R&D Engineer
mailto:fgiquel@mia-software.com
Mia-Software
4, rue du Château de l'Eraudiere
44324 NANTES CEDEX 03
------------------------------------------------------------ ---


----------------------------------------------------
Fabien GIQUEL
R&D Engineer
Mia-Software
4, rue du Château de l'Eraudiere
44324 NANTES CEDEX 03
----------------------------------------------------
Re: Java Ecore metamodel and M2T Template [message #573808 is a reply to message #499203] Mon, 23 November 2009 11:17 Go to previous message
Hugo Bruneliere is currently offline Hugo Bruneliere
Messages: 607
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Krzysztof,

Krzysztof Kowalczyk a écrit :
> Jan Mauersberger:
>> I use the same meta model and also do not require KDM etc. However, I
>> wasn't aware the that the Java meta model is newer - I assumed the
>> other way around ;-)
>
> There are 3 models right know - JavaAST (the oldest one), J2SE5 and
> Java. The third one is recommended AFAIK.

You're right! These three metamodels correspond to the several
iterations that have been made in order to reach a fully satisfying
version, the Java metamodel being this final version.
>
>
> Hugo Bruneliere,
> It seems that MoDisco is devoted to ATL / Acceleo and my work is in
> Xpand / Xtend. Does it matter ?
>

It is true that our current works mainly use ATL as a M2M technology and
Acceleo as a M2T one.

However, MoDisco is not dependent from these technologies: it is
designed so that any kind of M2M or M2T technology may be used within a
given reverse-engineering process.
According to this, several drivers for such different technologies have
already been committed to the project.
Of course, we are open to potential contributors of other drivers for
other technologies ;-)

Best regards,

Hugo

> Regards,
> Krzysztof Kowalczyk


--
-------------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (INRIA & EMN) - Room B206
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
4, rue Alfred Kastler
44307 Nantes Cedex 3 - France
Office: +33 (0)2 51 85 82 21
EMail: hugo.bruneliere@inria.fr
-------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------
Hugo Bruneliere - R&D Engineer
AtlanMod research team (Inria, EMN & LINA)
Ecole des Mines de Nantes
Nantes - France
------------------------------------------
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