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[Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #496354] Mon, 09 November 2009 18:35 Go to next message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
further improved in the future.

Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.

Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:

- Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
support
> conforming commercial implementations
> new application domains new
> requirements

- Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations

- Open source implementations for specifications

- Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations

- Collaboration between open source implementations

Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm.

We hope to see you at this special event.
icon14.gif  Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #496749 is a reply to message #496354] Wed, 11 November 2009 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Kenn,

I was reading articles and news on other website saying that UML has failed. I think there is a confusion between UML which is only a language built on the top of a model and technologies around UML like how to generate code, meta model serialization and model transformation.

My personal point of view is that:

Model Driven has failed because it is impossible to generate presentation and persistence layers from a model. You can still generate some running code but this is like trying to generate an html page from a windows word document. After a transformation you certainly get a html page which will be displayed on your browser but it will be impossible to maintain and modify it. The produce code is programmatic develop and make no sense for human being.

Metamodel serialization using EMF has failed because always stuck in trying to recreate an UML model from another Ecore language without at the original architecture creation of the EMF project in 2000 being focused on UML. It is now too late to change it.

Model transformation has failed because being using EMF technology to reproduce UML.

But it seems that we have forgotten that UML language didn't failed and is better than ever ?
It seems that we have forgotten that now all tools are using the same metamodel which allows model interchange between different tool vendors. Could you imagine that I have pasted and copied inside Omondo a model coming RSA, and another one coming from Papyrus and anotehr coming the UML 2 tools and all have been merged and it worked !!
We have worked over a decade to be able to do such an incredible technology and now it works and it is open source.

UML has not failed because the metamodel saving model information inside an XMI format is today a reality and a standard. It is just fantastic to be able to graphically model and to be sure that all information will be saved in a model. Please don't come back to say that XMI has no sense because if you add a viewer on the top of it you exactly see model element displayed in a tree view. It works and this is just perfect Very Happy

UML is changing and we need now to move from just a graphical design to add persistence. We need to stop wasting our time in serialization, model transformation and code generation in order to focus on what is really important for a language.
UML is today moving from a just a graphical model (e.g. model view) to add persistence layer (e.g. xmi metamodel and MOF). Like databases we are now adding a RDBMS to UML using XMI to save all this information.

UML is today an incredible technical success but mistake in the past and the use of wrong technologies have discouraged many users.
My personnal conviction is that the EclipseUML2 project which is an official UML metamodel will save UML modeling and help to model in an agile way.

Many thanks Kenn for your fantastic job on this EclipseUML2 metamodel this is where is the value and all EMF/GMF stuffs are just a waste of time for UML modeling.

Vlad
Omondo
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #496771 is a reply to message #496354] Wed, 11 November 2009 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yves YANG is currently offline Yves YANGFriend
Messages: 687
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Kenn,

It is great. I have submitted a proposal to open a session on "Persentation
modeling". Mainly, we'll talk about the generation of UI from business model
like EMF, Java, UML, etc. Particuliarly we will show up our work on PMF and
our vision on Modeling UI.

Best regards
Yves YANG
-------
Soyatec

"Kenn Hussey" <Kenn.Hussey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hd9ndr$sqg$2@build.eclipse.org...
> In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
> one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
> Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
> the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
> symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
> 23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
> discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
> projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
> implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
> further improved in the future.
>
> Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
> topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
> to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
> position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
> discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
> participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
> community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
> stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.
>
> Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:
>
> - Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
> support
> > conforming commercial implementations
> > new application domains new
> > requirements
>
> - Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations
>
> - Open source implementations for specifications
>
> - Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations
>
> - Collaboration between open source implementations
>
> Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
> from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
> or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
> organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
> paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
> http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
> The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
> each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
> registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
> http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm.
>
> We hope to see you at this special event.
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #496847 is a reply to message #496749] Wed, 11 November 2009 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Hi Kenn,
>
> I was reading articles and news on other website saying that UML has
> failed. I think there is a confusion between UML which is only a
> language built on the top of a model and technologies around UML like
> how to generate code, meta model serialization and model transformation.
Typically the confusion seems to be generated by you.
>
> My personal point of view is that:
Of course we're all welcome to have a personal point of view.
>
> Model Driven has failed because it is impossible to generate
> presentation and persistence layers from a model.
It seems to me EMF and GMF do precisely that. I must be
misunderstanding the nature of the impossibility.
> You can still generate some running code but this is like trying to
> generate an html page from a windows word document. After a
> transformation you certainly get a html page which will be displayed
> on your browser but it will be impossible to maintain and modify it.
> The produce code is programmatic develop and make no sense for human
> being.
Life is not so strictly black or white. EMF certainly let's you keep
modifying the original model (word document in the analogy) and
regenerating the result based on that (the HTML). It also support
merging so that changes in the generated code (the HTML) will be
preserved during regeneration.
>
> Metamodel serialization using EMF has failed because always stuck in
> trying to recreate an UML model from another Ecore language without at
> the original architecture creation of the EMF project in 2000 being
> focused on UML. It is now too late to change it.
I have no idea what this means. Many people use EMF to serialize to XML
according to an XML Schema definition as their model. This has nothing
to do with UML. EMF is simply not suck trying to create UML except in
your own mind.
>
> Model transformation has failed because being using EMF technology
> to reproduce UML.
I don't follow this sentence at all. All the grammatical errors aren't
helping.
>
> But it seems that we have forgotten that UML language didn't failed
> and is better than ever ?
UML certainly has a very important role to play.
> It seems that we have forgotten that now all tools are using the same
> metamodel which allows model interchange between different tool
> vendors. Could you imagine that I have pasted and copied inside Omondo
> a model coming RSA, and another one coming from Papyrus and anotehr
> coming the UML 2 tools and all have been merged and it worked !!
> We have worked over a decade to be able to do such an incredible
> technology and now it works and it is open source.
A positive statement. How nice. I wonder if EMF helped to achieve that
goal?
>
> UML has not failed because the metamodel saving model information
> inside an XMI format is today a reality and a standard. It is just
> fantastic to be able to graphically model and to be sure that all
> information will be saved in a model. Please don't come back to say
> that XMI has no sense because if you add a viewer on the top of it you
> exactly see model element displayed in a tree view. It works and this
> is just perfect :d
> UML is changing and we need now to move from just a graphical design
> to add persistence. We need to stop wasting our time in serialization,
> model transformation and code generation in order to focus on what is
> really important for a language.
What exactly do you think people design a UML model for? Just to make a
pretty picture. That's exactly what gives UML a bad smell when it's
capable of achieving so much more.
> UML is today moving from a just a graphical model (e.g. model view) to
> add persistence layer (e.g. xmi metamodel and MOF). Like databases we
> are now adding a RDBMS to UML using XMI to save all this information.
It's EMF under the covers doing all this...
>
>
> UML is today an incredible technical success but mistake in the past
> and the use of wrong technologies have discouraged many users. My
> personnal conviction is that the EclipseUML2 project which is an
> official UML metamodel will save UML modeling and help to model in an
> agile way.
>
> Many thanks Kenn for your fantastic job on this EclipseUML2 metamodel
> this is where is the value and all EMF/GMF stuffs are just a waste of
> time for UML modeling.
So all the waste-of-time technology was used to create something
fantastic. The making of a silk purse form a sow's ear. How ironic is that?
>
> Vlad
> Omondo
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497019 is a reply to message #496354] Thu, 12 November 2009 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
All Eclipse community has been depending on EMF technologies in the last 7 years. The result is a real disaster in adoption and less and less companies are modeling.
EMF is not UML modeling and will never be !!
The OMG is about UML and not about other modeling technologies backed by EMF.

It is time for a change and I think that we should let a chance to EclipseUML2 project and not always talk about the same old stuffs like EMF.
Regards,

Vlad
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497054 is a reply to message #497019] Thu, 12 November 2009 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> All Eclipse community has been depending on EMF technologies in the
> last 7 years.
I wouldn't go that far. There are still a number of projects that don't
use EMF.
> The result is a real disaster in adoption
And where would we see evidence of this disaster?
> and less and less companies are modeling.
Yet I see evidence that more and more people are modeling...
> EMF is not UML modeling and will never be !!
Nor is Java UML nor will never be, it's just what's used to implement
Eclipse's UML2 technology. But that's pretty much a vacuous observation.
> The OMG is about UML and not about other modeling technologies backed
> by EMF.
In actual fact, the OMG is about a lot more than UML and more
fundamentally it is about modeling technologies backed by MOF. EMF
provides the defacto standard open source implementation of MOF, i.e.,
Ecore, and it is used to back many OMG modeling technologies, UML2 being
one of them.
>
> It is time for a change
Feel free to change anything you like, just try to sound a little more
rational and coherent if you'd like others to follow.
> and I think that we should let a chance to EclipseUML2 project
Cool things are happening with the UML technologies with the Papyrus
project being an excellent example; it might not help you sell more
Omondo licenses though. I have no idea why you consider people using
EMF for things other than UML modeling, e.g., XML schema Java binding,
as fundamentally at odds with a different set of people using UML itself...
> and not always talk about the same old stuffs like EMF.
Not everyone has a one track mind nor is everyone in this world on the
same track. In any case, we'll choose to talk about whatever we want
around here whether you personally like it or not. I'd suggest you
focus on promoting the virtues of UML and get off this track of having
to trash everything that isn't UML; it detracts from your message and
makes you sound shrill.
> Regards,
>
> Vlad
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497086 is a reply to message #496354] Thu, 12 November 2009 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Ed,

I think that we had a fantastic modeling project with EMF and UML in 2004 and the result is just misery today !!
The Eclipse modeling community has failed it is therefore time for a change.

This is not about UML but what I feel because we can't really make our living from consulting or selling softwares anymore inside the Eclipse ecosystem.
Just too bad Sad

Vlad,
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497091 is a reply to message #497086] Thu, 12 November 2009 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Ed,
>
> I think that we had a fantastic modeling project with EMF and UML in
> 2004 and the result is just misery today !!
For whom?
> The Eclipse modeling community has failed it is therefore time for a
> change.
Failed how? Change to what?
>
> This is not about UML but what I feel because we can't really make our
> living from consulting or selling softwares anymore inside the Eclipse
> ecosystem.
Who's we?
>
> Just too bad :(
For whom?
> Vlad,
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497119 is a reply to message #496749] Thu, 12 November 2009 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Thanks for the kind words regarding my contributions to the UML2
project. If you'd like to share your perspective with others, why not
consider submitting a position paper for the symposium - that's what
it's all about. ;)

Kenn

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Hi Kenn,
>
> I was reading articles and news on other website saying that UML has
> failed. I think there is a confusion between UML which is only a
> language built on the top of a model and technologies around UML like
> how to generate code, meta model serialization and model transformation.
>
> My personal point of view is that:
>
> Model Driven has failed because it is impossible to generate
> presentation and persistence layers from a model. You can still
> generate some running code but this is like trying to generate an html
> page from a windows word document. After a transformation you certainly
> get a html page which will be displayed on your browser but it will be
> impossible to maintain and modify it. The produce code is programmatic
> develop and make no sense for human being.
>
> Metamodel serialization using EMF has failed because always stuck in
> trying to recreate an UML model from another Ecore language without at
> the original architecture creation of the EMF project in 2000 being
> focused on UML. It is now too late to change it.
>
> Model transformation has failed because being using EMF technology to
> reproduce UML.
>
> But it seems that we have forgotten that UML language didn't failed and
> is better than ever ?
> It seems that we have forgotten that now all tools are using the same
> metamodel which allows model interchange between different tool vendors.
> Could you imagine that I have pasted and copied inside Omondo a model
> coming RSA, and another one coming from Papyrus and anotehr coming the
> UML 2 tools and all have been merged and it worked !!
> We have worked over a decade to be able to do such an incredible
> technology and now it works and it is open source.
>
> UML has not failed because the metamodel saving model information inside
> an XMI format is today a reality and a standard. It is just fantastic to
> be able to graphically model and to be sure that all information will be
> saved in a model. Please don't come back to say that XMI has no sense
> because if you add a viewer on the top of it you exactly see model
> element displayed in a tree view. It works and this is just perfect :d
> UML is changing and we need now to move from just a graphical design to
> add persistence. We need to stop wasting our time in serialization,
> model transformation and code generation in order to focus on what is
> really important for a language.
> UML is today moving from a just a graphical model (e.g. model view) to
> add persistence layer (e.g. xmi metamodel and MOF). Like databases we
> are now adding a RDBMS to UML using XMI to save all this information.
>
> UML is today an incredible technical success but mistake in the past and
> the use of wrong technologies have discouraged many users. My personnal
> conviction is that the EclipseUML2 project which is an official UML
> metamodel will save UML modeling and help to model in an agile way.
>
> Many thanks Kenn for your fantastic job on this EclipseUML2 metamodel
> this is where is the value and all EMF/GMF stuffs are just a waste of
> time for UML modeling.
>
> Vlad
> Omondo
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497120 is a reply to message #496771] Thu, 12 November 2009 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Yves,

That sounds great. I'm looking forward to it!

Kenn

Yves YANG wrote:
> Hi Kenn,
>
> It is great. I have submitted a proposal to open a session on "Persentation
> modeling". Mainly, we'll talk about the generation of UI from business model
> like EMF, Java, UML, etc. Particuliarly we will show up our work on PMF and
> our vision on Modeling UI.
>
> Best regards
> Yves YANG
> -------
> Soyatec
>
> "Kenn Hussey" <Kenn.Hussey@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hd9ndr$sqg$2@build.eclipse.org...
>> In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
>> one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
>> Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
>> the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
>> symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
>> 23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
>> discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
>> projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
>> implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
>> further improved in the future.
>>
>> Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
>> topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
>> to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
>> position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
>> discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
>> participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
>> community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
>> stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.
>>
>> Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:
>>
>> - Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
>> support
>> > conforming commercial implementations
>> > new application domains new
>> > requirements
>>
>> - Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations
>>
>> - Open source implementations for specifications
>>
>> - Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations
>>
>> - Collaboration between open source implementations
>>
>> Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
>> from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
>> or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
>> organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
>> paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
>> http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
>> The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
>> each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
>> registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
>> http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm.
>>
>> We hope to see you at this special event.
>
>
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #497121 is a reply to message #497086] Thu, 12 November 2009 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

There are still ways of making a living from consulting and products
within the Eclipse (Modeling) ecosystem, but the business model(s) have
evolved. Organizations that are agile enough to adapt will continue to
thrive whereas others will not...

Kenn

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Ed,
>
> I think that we had a fantastic modeling project with EMF and UML in
> 2004 and the result is just misery today !!
> The Eclipse modeling community has failed it is therefore time for a
> change.
>
> This is not about UML but what I feel because we can't really make our
> living from consulting or selling softwares anymore inside the Eclipse
> ecosystem.
> Just too bad :(
> Vlad,
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #498099 is a reply to message #496354] Sat, 14 November 2009 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Kenn,

The way to do business is and will remain the same in our ISV market only technologies and number of users are changing.

The current problem I see is that Eclipse has lost its influence inside Jee projects because the use of Maven and continuous integration process.
The main problem is that between Eclipse and Maven there is an architecture incompatibility which makes impossible to invoke Maven from Eclipse. Continuous integration process is therefore using maven and only Eclipse as a Java editor. The potential business is therefore getting smaller and smaller and I don't see any change in the near future even if Eclipse is launching new maven projects. We don't tackle the real technological challenge Confused

Challenges are:
Model transformation, Code generation, agile modeling built on the top of robust and standard open source technologies.

In the eclipse modeling forum we are always talking about EMF because EMF is everywhere. This is really very painful and block any further evolution and free mind thinking. We spend more time working as plumbers than targetting real market needs because stuck by all this EMF inheritances.
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #498107 is a reply to message #498099] Sat, 14 November 2009 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Kenn,
>
> The way to do business is and will remain the same in our ISV market
> only technologies and number of users are changing.
You seem to expect things at Eclipse to change so you can keep doing
things the same...
>
> The current problem I see is that Eclipse has lost its influence
> inside Jee projects because the use of Maven and continuous
> integration process.
Eclipse is the dominant IDE in this market, there are Maven projects at
Eclipse, and we're already doing continuous integration.
> The main problem is that between Eclipse and Maven there is an
> architecture incompatibility which makes impossible to invoke Maven
> from Eclipse.
I doubt this is as impossible as you suggest.
> Continuous integration process is therefore using maven and only
> Eclipse as a Java editor.
That doesn't sound so tragic, even if it were true, which I doubt. With
p2 one can consume Maven and the b3
<http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/b3/> aggregator can publish to Maven.
> The potential business is therefore getting smaller and smaller and I
> don't see any change in the near future even if Eclipse is launching
> new maven projects. We don't tackle the real technological challenge :?
We'll do that with b3 <http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/b3/>, worry not.
> Challenges are:
> Model transformation, Code generation, agile modeling built on the top
> of robust and standard open source technologies.
And that relates to Maven and JEE how? Your line of reasoning is
tortuous and confusing.
>
> In the eclipse modeling forum we are always talking about EMF because
> EMF is everywhere. This is really very painful and block any further
> evolution and free mind thinking.
You seem to assume that everyone is incredibly stupid...
> We spend more time working as plumbers than targetting real market
> needs because stuck by all this EMF inheritances.
EMF is like the root of all evil, but you've made that point countless
times already so why don't you stop flogging that dead horse now?
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #513653 is a reply to message #496354] Wed, 10 February 2010 18:17 Go to previous message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Folks,

Just a reminder that the submission deadline for the Eclipse/OMG
Symposium 2010 (see below) is only two weeks away (Febraury 24). Don't
miss out on this opportunity to contribute to the future of open source
and open specifications!

Kenn

Kenn Hussey wrote:
> In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
> one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
> Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
> the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
> symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
> 23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
> discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
> projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
> implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
> further improved in the future.
>
> Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
> topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
> to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
> position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
> discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
> participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
> community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
> stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.
>
> Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:
>
> - Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
> support
> > conforming commercial implementations
> > new application domains new
> > requirements
>
> - Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations
>
> - Open source implementations for specifications
>
> - Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations
>
> - Collaboration between open source implementations
>
> Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
> from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
> or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
> organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
> paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
> http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
> The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
> each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
> registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
> http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm
>
> We hope to see you at this special event.
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618285 is a reply to message #496354] Wed, 11 November 2009 09:54 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Kenn,

I was reading articles and news on other website saying that UML has failed. I think there is a confusion between UML which is only a language built on the top of a model and technologies around UML like how to generate code, meta model serialization and model transformation.

My personal point of view is that:

Model Driven has failed because it is impossible to generate presentation and persistence layers from a model. You can still generate some running code but this is like trying to generate an html page from a windows word document. After a transformation you certainly get a html page which will be displayed on your browser but it will be impossible to maintain and modify it. The produce code is programmatic develop and make no sense for human being.

Metamodel serialization using EMF has failed because always stuck in trying to recreate an UML model from another Ecore language without at the original architecture creation of the EMF project in 2000 being focused on UML. It is now too late to change it.

Model transformation has failed because being using EMF technology to reproduce UML.

But it seems that we have forgotten that UML language didn't failed and is better than ever ?
It seems that we have forgotten that now all tools are using the same metamodel which allows model interchange between different tool vendors. Could you imagine that I have pasted and copied inside Omondo a model coming RSA, and another one coming from Papyrus and anotehr coming the UML 2 tools and all have been merged and it worked !!
We have worked over a decade to be able to do such an incredible technology and now it works and it is open source.

UML has not failed because the metamodel saving model information inside an XMI format is today a reality and a standard. It is just fantastic to be able to graphically model and to be sure that all information will be saved in a model. Please don't come back to say that XMI has no sense because if you add a viewer on the top of it you exactly see model element displayed in a tree view. It works and this is just perfect :d

UML is changing and we need now to move from just a graphical design to add persistence. We need to stop wasting our time in serialization, model transformation and code generation in order to focus on what is really important for a language.
UML is today moving from a just a graphical model (e.g. model view) to add persistence layer (e.g. xmi metamodel and MOF). Like databases we are now adding a RDBMS to UML using XMI to save all this information.

UML is today an incredible technical success but mistake in the past and the use of wrong technologies have discouraged many users.
My personnal conviction is that the EclipseUML2 project which is an official UML metamodel will save UML modeling and help to model in an agile way.

Many thanks Kenn for your fantastic job on this EclipseUML2 metamodel this is where is the value and all EMF/GMF stuffs are just a waste of time for UML modeling.

Vlad
Omondo
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618286 is a reply to message #496354] Wed, 11 November 2009 10:55 Go to previous message
Yves YANG is currently offline Yves YANGFriend
Messages: 687
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Kenn,

It is great. I have submitted a proposal to open a session on "Persentation
modeling". Mainly, we'll talk about the generation of UI from business model
like EMF, Java, UML, etc. Particuliarly we will show up our work on PMF and
our vision on Modeling UI.

Best regards
Yves YANG
-------
Soyatec

"Kenn Hussey" <Kenn.Hussey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hd9ndr$sqg$2@build.eclipse.org...
> In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
> one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
> Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
> the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
> symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
> 23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
> discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
> projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
> implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
> further improved in the future.
>
> Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
> topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
> to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
> position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
> discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
> participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
> community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
> stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.
>
> Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:
>
> - Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
> support
> > conforming commercial implementations
> > new application domains new
> > requirements
>
> - Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations
>
> - Open source implementations for specifications
>
> - Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations
>
> - Collaboration between open source implementations
>
> Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
> from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
> or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
> organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
> paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
> http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
> The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
> each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
> registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
> http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm
>
> We hope to see you at this special event.
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618465 is a reply to message #496749] Wed, 11 November 2009 14:32 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Hi Kenn,
>
> I was reading articles and news on other website saying that UML has
> failed. I think there is a confusion between UML which is only a
> language built on the top of a model and technologies around UML like
> how to generate code, meta model serialization and model transformation.
Typically the confusion seems to be generated by you.
>
> My personal point of view is that:
Of course we're all welcome to have a personal point of view.
>
> Model Driven has failed because it is impossible to generate
> presentation and persistence layers from a model.
It seems to me EMF and GMF do precisely that. I must be
misunderstanding the nature of the impossibility.
> You can still generate some running code but this is like trying to
> generate an html page from a windows word document. After a
> transformation you certainly get a html page which will be displayed
> on your browser but it will be impossible to maintain and modify it.
> The produce code is programmatic develop and make no sense for human
> being.
Life is not so strictly black or white. EMF certainly let's you keep
modifying the original model (word document in the analogy) and
regenerating the result based on that (the HTML). It also support
merging so that changes in the generated code (the HTML) will be
preserved during regeneration.
>
> Metamodel serialization using EMF has failed because always stuck in
> trying to recreate an UML model from another Ecore language without at
> the original architecture creation of the EMF project in 2000 being
> focused on UML. It is now too late to change it.
I have no idea what this means. Many people use EMF to serialize to XML
according to an XML Schema definition as their model. This has nothing
to do with UML. EMF is simply not suck trying to create UML except in
your own mind.
>
> Model transformation has failed because being using EMF technology
> to reproduce UML.
I don't follow this sentence at all. All the grammatical errors aren't
helping.
>
> But it seems that we have forgotten that UML language didn't failed
> and is better than ever ?
UML certainly has a very important role to play.
> It seems that we have forgotten that now all tools are using the same
> metamodel which allows model interchange between different tool
> vendors. Could you imagine that I have pasted and copied inside Omondo
> a model coming RSA, and another one coming from Papyrus and anotehr
> coming the UML 2 tools and all have been merged and it worked !!
> We have worked over a decade to be able to do such an incredible
> technology and now it works and it is open source.
A positive statement. How nice. I wonder if EMF helped to achieve that
goal?
>
> UML has not failed because the metamodel saving model information
> inside an XMI format is today a reality and a standard. It is just
> fantastic to be able to graphically model and to be sure that all
> information will be saved in a model. Please don't come back to say
> that XMI has no sense because if you add a viewer on the top of it you
> exactly see model element displayed in a tree view. It works and this
> is just perfect :d
> UML is changing and we need now to move from just a graphical design
> to add persistence. We need to stop wasting our time in serialization,
> model transformation and code generation in order to focus on what is
> really important for a language.
What exactly do you think people design a UML model for? Just to make a
pretty picture. That's exactly what gives UML a bad smell when it's
capable of achieving so much more.
> UML is today moving from a just a graphical model (e.g. model view) to
> add persistence layer (e.g. xmi metamodel and MOF). Like databases we
> are now adding a RDBMS to UML using XMI to save all this information.
It's EMF under the covers doing all this...
>
>
> UML is today an incredible technical success but mistake in the past
> and the use of wrong technologies have discouraged many users. My
> personnal conviction is that the EclipseUML2 project which is an
> official UML metamodel will save UML modeling and help to model in an
> agile way.
>
> Many thanks Kenn for your fantastic job on this EclipseUML2 metamodel
> this is where is the value and all EMF/GMF stuffs are just a waste of
> time for UML modeling.
So all the waste-of-time technology was used to create something
fantastic. The making of a silk purse form a sow's ear. How ironic is that?
>
> Vlad
> Omondo
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618468 is a reply to message #496354] Thu, 12 November 2009 09:46 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
All Eclipse community has been depending on EMF technologies in the last 7 years. The result is a real disaster in adoption and less and less companies are modeling.
EMF is not UML modeling and will never be !!
The OMG is about UML and not about other modeling technologies backed by EMF.

It is time for a change and I think that we should let a chance to EclipseUML2 project and not always talk about the same old stuffs like EMF.
Regards,

Vlad
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618470 is a reply to message #497019] Thu, 12 November 2009 11:26 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> All Eclipse community has been depending on EMF technologies in the
> last 7 years.
I wouldn't go that far. There are still a number of projects that don't
use EMF.
> The result is a real disaster in adoption
And where would we see evidence of this disaster?
> and less and less companies are modeling.
Yet I see evidence that more and more people are modeling...
> EMF is not UML modeling and will never be !!
Nor is Java UML nor will never be, it's just what's used to implement
Eclipse's UML2 technology. But that's pretty much a vacuous observation.
> The OMG is about UML and not about other modeling technologies backed
> by EMF.
In actual fact, the OMG is about a lot more than UML and more
fundamentally it is about modeling technologies backed by MOF. EMF
provides the defacto standard open source implementation of MOF, i.e.,
Ecore, and it is used to back many OMG modeling technologies, UML2 being
one of them.
>
> It is time for a change
Feel free to change anything you like, just try to sound a little more
rational and coherent if you'd like others to follow.
> and I think that we should let a chance to EclipseUML2 project
Cool things are happening with the UML technologies with the Papyrus
project being an excellent example; it might not help you sell more
Omondo licenses though. I have no idea why you consider people using
EMF for things other than UML modeling, e.g., XML schema Java binding,
as fundamentally at odds with a different set of people using UML itself...
> and not always talk about the same old stuffs like EMF.
Not everyone has a one track mind nor is everyone in this world on the
same track. In any case, we'll choose to talk about whatever we want
around here whether you personally like it or not. I'd suggest you
focus on promoting the virtues of UML and get off this track of having
to trash everything that isn't UML; it detracts from your message and
makes you sound shrill.
> Regards,
>
> Vlad
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618473 is a reply to message #496354] Thu, 12 November 2009 13:42 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Ed,

I think that we had a fantastic modeling project with EMF and UML in 2004 and the result is just misery today !!
The Eclipse modeling community has failed it is therefore time for a change.

This is not about UML but what I feel because we can't really make our living from consulting or selling softwares anymore inside the Eclipse ecosystem.
Just too bad :(

Vlad,
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618476 is a reply to message #618473] Thu, 12 November 2009 13:54 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Ed,
>
> I think that we had a fantastic modeling project with EMF and UML in
> 2004 and the result is just misery today !!
For whom?
> The Eclipse modeling community has failed it is therefore time for a
> change.
Failed how? Change to what?
>
> This is not about UML but what I feel because we can't really make our
> living from consulting or selling softwares anymore inside the Eclipse
> ecosystem.
Who's we?
>
> Just too bad :(
For whom?
> Vlad,
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618478 is a reply to message #496749] Thu, 12 November 2009 14:18 Go to previous message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Thanks for the kind words regarding my contributions to the UML2
project. If you'd like to share your perspective with others, why not
consider submitting a position paper for the symposium - that's what
it's all about. ;)

Kenn

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Hi Kenn,
>
> I was reading articles and news on other website saying that UML has
> failed. I think there is a confusion between UML which is only a
> language built on the top of a model and technologies around UML like
> how to generate code, meta model serialization and model transformation.
>
> My personal point of view is that:
>
> Model Driven has failed because it is impossible to generate
> presentation and persistence layers from a model. You can still
> generate some running code but this is like trying to generate an html
> page from a windows word document. After a transformation you certainly
> get a html page which will be displayed on your browser but it will be
> impossible to maintain and modify it. The produce code is programmatic
> develop and make no sense for human being.
>
> Metamodel serialization using EMF has failed because always stuck in
> trying to recreate an UML model from another Ecore language without at
> the original architecture creation of the EMF project in 2000 being
> focused on UML. It is now too late to change it.
>
> Model transformation has failed because being using EMF technology to
> reproduce UML.
>
> But it seems that we have forgotten that UML language didn't failed and
> is better than ever ?
> It seems that we have forgotten that now all tools are using the same
> metamodel which allows model interchange between different tool vendors.
> Could you imagine that I have pasted and copied inside Omondo a model
> coming RSA, and another one coming from Papyrus and anotehr coming the
> UML 2 tools and all have been merged and it worked !!
> We have worked over a decade to be able to do such an incredible
> technology and now it works and it is open source.
>
> UML has not failed because the metamodel saving model information inside
> an XMI format is today a reality and a standard. It is just fantastic to
> be able to graphically model and to be sure that all information will be
> saved in a model. Please don't come back to say that XMI has no sense
> because if you add a viewer on the top of it you exactly see model
> element displayed in a tree view. It works and this is just perfect :d
> UML is changing and we need now to move from just a graphical design to
> add persistence. We need to stop wasting our time in serialization,
> model transformation and code generation in order to focus on what is
> really important for a language.
> UML is today moving from a just a graphical model (e.g. model view) to
> add persistence layer (e.g. xmi metamodel and MOF). Like databases we
> are now adding a RDBMS to UML using XMI to save all this information.
>
> UML is today an incredible technical success but mistake in the past and
> the use of wrong technologies have discouraged many users. My personnal
> conviction is that the EclipseUML2 project which is an official UML
> metamodel will save UML modeling and help to model in an agile way.
>
> Many thanks Kenn for your fantastic job on this EclipseUML2 metamodel
> this is where is the value and all EMF/GMF stuffs are just a waste of
> time for UML modeling.
>
> Vlad
> Omondo
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618481 is a reply to message #496771] Thu, 12 November 2009 14:19 Go to previous message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Yves,

That sounds great. I'm looking forward to it!

Kenn

Yves YANG wrote:
> Hi Kenn,
>
> It is great. I have submitted a proposal to open a session on "Persentation
> modeling". Mainly, we'll talk about the generation of UI from business model
> like EMF, Java, UML, etc. Particuliarly we will show up our work on PMF and
> our vision on Modeling UI.
>
> Best regards
> Yves YANG
> -------
> Soyatec
>
> "Kenn Hussey" <Kenn.Hussey@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hd9ndr$sqg$2@build.eclipse.org...
>> In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
>> one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
>> Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
>> the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
>> symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
>> 23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
>> discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
>> projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
>> implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
>> further improved in the future.
>>
>> Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
>> topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
>> to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
>> position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
>> discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
>> participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
>> community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
>> stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.
>>
>> Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:
>>
>> - Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
>> support
>> > conforming commercial implementations
>> > new application domains new
>> > requirements
>>
>> - Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations
>>
>> - Open source implementations for specifications
>>
>> - Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations
>>
>> - Collaboration between open source implementations
>>
>> Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
>> from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
>> or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
>> organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
>> paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
>> http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
>> The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
>> each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
>> registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
>> http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm
>>
>> We hope to see you at this special event.
>
>
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618484 is a reply to message #618473] Thu, 12 November 2009 14:22 Go to previous message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

There are still ways of making a living from consulting and products
within the Eclipse (Modeling) ecosystem, but the business model(s) have
evolved. Organizations that are agile enough to adapt will continue to
thrive whereas others will not...

Kenn

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Ed,
>
> I think that we had a fantastic modeling project with EMF and UML in
> 2004 and the result is just misery today !!
> The Eclipse modeling community has failed it is therefore time for a
> change.
>
> This is not about UML but what I feel because we can't really make our
> living from consulting or selling softwares anymore inside the Eclipse
> ecosystem.
> Just too bad :(
> Vlad,
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618487 is a reply to message #496354] Sat, 14 November 2009 13:47 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Kenn,

The way to do business is and will remain the same in our ISV market only technologies and number of users are changing.

The current problem I see is that Eclipse has lost its influence inside Jee projects because the use of Maven and continuous integration process.
The main problem is that between Eclipse and Maven there is an architecture incompatibility which makes impossible to invoke Maven from Eclipse. Continuous integration process is therefore using maven and only Eclipse as a Java editor. The potential business is therefore getting smaller and smaller and I don't see any change in the near future even if Eclipse is launching new maven projects. We don't tackle the real technological challenge :?

Challenges are:
Model transformation, Code generation, agile modeling built on the top of robust and standard open source technologies.

In the eclipse modeling forum we are always talking about EMF because EMF is everywhere. This is really very painful and block any further evolution and free mind thinking. We spend more time working as plumbers than targetting real market needs because stuck by all this EMF inheritances.
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #618489 is a reply to message #498099] Sat, 14 November 2009 14:47 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 26215
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Kenn,
>
> The way to do business is and will remain the same in our ISV market
> only technologies and number of users are changing.
You seem to expect things at Eclipse to change so you can keep doing
things the same...
>
> The current problem I see is that Eclipse has lost its influence
> inside Jee projects because the use of Maven and continuous
> integration process.
Eclipse is the dominant IDE in this market, there are Maven projects at
Eclipse, and we're already doing continuous integration.
> The main problem is that between Eclipse and Maven there is an
> architecture incompatibility which makes impossible to invoke Maven
> from Eclipse.
I doubt this is as impossible as you suggest.
> Continuous integration process is therefore using maven and only
> Eclipse as a Java editor.
That doesn't sound so tragic, even if it were true, which I doubt. With
p2 one can consume Maven and the b3
<http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/b3/> aggregator can publish to Maven.
> The potential business is therefore getting smaller and smaller and I
> don't see any change in the near future even if Eclipse is launching
> new maven projects. We don't tackle the real technological challenge :?
We'll do that with b3 <http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/b3/>, worry not.
> Challenges are:
> Model transformation, Code generation, agile modeling built on the top
> of robust and standard open source technologies.
And that relates to Maven and JEE how? Your line of reasoning is
tortuous and confusing.
>
> In the eclipse modeling forum we are always talking about EMF because
> EMF is everywhere. This is really very painful and block any further
> evolution and free mind thinking.
You seem to assume that everyone is incredibly stupid...
> We spend more time working as plumbers than targetting real market
> needs because stuck by all this EMF inheritances.
EMF is like the root of all evil, but you've made that point countless
times already so why don't you stop flogging that dead horse now?
Re: [Announce] Eclipse/OMG Symposium 2010 [message #619434 is a reply to message #496354] Wed, 10 February 2010 18:17 Go to previous message
Kenn Hussey is currently offline Kenn HusseyFriend
Messages: 1618
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Folks,

Just a reminder that the submission deadline for the Eclipse/OMG
Symposium 2010 (see below) is only two weeks away (Febraury 24). Don't
miss out on this opportunity to contribute to the future of open source
and open specifications!

Kenn

Kenn Hussey wrote:
> In 2008, Eclipse and the OMG (Object Management Group) jointly ran two
> one-day symposia to promote and build on the partnership between
> Eclipse's open source software and OMG's open specifications. Following
> the success of these events, OMG and Eclipse will hold a further one-day
> symposium during the OMG Technical Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota on
> 23rd June 2010. The symposium will be organized as a series of
> discussion sessions on OMG specifications and corresponding Eclipse
> projects, to discuss the alignment between current specifications and
> implemented software, and identify areas where the cooperation could be
> further improved in the future.
>
> Eclipse and OMG invite position papers of up to 600 words on any of the
> topic areas below, or any other area where an OMG specification relates
> to Eclipse software. The Program Committee will publish all submitted
> position papers, and invite some of the paper authors to lead individual
> discussion sessions. This symposium is a further opportunity to
> participate in shaping the joint future of the Eclipse Open Source
> community and the OMG Open Specifications community. Please join us for
> stimulating technical planning and discussion in this exciting area.
>
> Topics may include (but are not limited to) the following:
>
> - Extensibility of specifications and/or open source implementations to
> support
> > conforming commercial implementations
> > new application domains new
> > requirements
>
> - Processes for evolving specifications and/or open source implementations
>
> - Open source implementations for specifications
>
> - Standardized models or interfaces for open source implementations
>
> - Collaboration between open source implementations
>
> Papers that deal with specific problems and solutions that may benefit
> from a wider discussion than that available though Eclipse Bug Reports
> or OMG Issues are particularly welcome. Interested individuals or
> organizations are invited to submit a brief (up to 600 words) position
> paper by 24th February 2010 using the form at
> http://www.omg.org/abstracts (please select "Session Presentation").
> The Program Committee will send invitations to prospective leaders for
> each session in early March 2010. The final symposium agenda and
> registration details will be available on 17th March 2010 and posted at
> http://www.omg.org/news/meetings/tc/mn/special-events/Eclips e.htm
>
> We hope to see you at this special event.
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