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Where is JWT Desktop? [message #492954] Thu, 22 October 2009 09:29 Go to next message
David Wynter is currently offline David Wynter
Messages: 4548
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

Fabian made this statement earlier in the list "or you can call some
Java classes using the JWT Desktop engine (which is alas still not
converted to Eclipse right now and only available on SourceForge)."

I went looking for the JWT Desktop in sourceforge, it does not find it
with a search for "JWT Desktop" with all words.

What I really want is an embedded OSGI engine to run my workflows, which
all have tasks encapsulated in Java classes that all take and return a
Context (think of as a payload) object. Is there anything like that that
does not have a GPL licence?

Regards,

David
Re: Where is JWT Desktop? [message #492955 is a reply to message #492954] Thu, 22 October 2009 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Wynter is currently offline David Wynter
Messages: 4548
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Sorry I meant Florian....

David

David Wynter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Fabian made this statement earlier in the list "or you can call some
> Java classes using the JWT Desktop engine (which is alas still not
> converted to Eclipse right now and only available on SourceForge)."
>
> I went looking for the JWT Desktop in sourceforge, it does not find it
> with a search for "JWT Desktop" with all words.
>
> What I really want is an embedded OSGI engine to run my workflows, which
> all have tasks encapsulated in Java classes that all take and return a
> Context (think of as a payload) object. Is there anything like that that
> does not have a GPL licence?
>
> Regards,
>
> David
Re: Where is JWT Desktop? [message #493158 is a reply to message #492955] Fri, 23 October 2009 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marc Dutoo is currently offline Marc Dutoo
Messages: 71
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi David

I guess Florian was talking about future contributions to JWT in the
perimeter of Desktop BPM coming from the AgilPro JWT-based BPM tool
suite that his University of Augsburg releases. The AgilPro tool suite
can be downloaded under the GPL at
https://sourceforge.net/projects/agilpro. Alas, there are no OSGi'd
workflow engine there that I know of.

Another part of JWT Desktop we've been thinking to get is an OSGified,
embedded (in Eclipse or RCP) packaging of the LGPL-licensed OW2 Bonita
workflow engine. Bonita has already been packaged with JWT, along with
web services and SCA oriented extensions in the OW2 Scarbo SOA BPM
solution (see http://scarbo.ow2.org ).

We have not OSGified Bonita yet, but have a look at what Flavio Donze
(coming from a SpringSource context) did about it (see previous posts
and also especially
http://forge.ow2.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=6578&foru m_id=1528 ), I
guess it's very close to your goal.

You said you did not want GPL, Bonita is LGPL which is nicer for
commercial/proprietary developments so you may find it OK for you. Note
that neither GPL nor LGPL are compatible with the Eclipse license,
that's why the JWT project will never be able to have it in its
codebase. It should not be a problem for you though, at least as long as
you don't intend to contribute to the Eclipse Foundation.

Besides GPL and LGPL, I don't know of Open Source workflow engines.
JBoss is also LGPL. ODE is Apache but is a BPEL service orchestrator
rather than a workflow engine...

Regards,
Marc

David Wynter a écrit :
> Sorry I meant Florian....
>
> David
>
> David Wynter wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Fabian made this statement earlier in the list "or you can call some
>> Java classes using the JWT Desktop engine (which is alas still not
>> converted to Eclipse right now and only available on SourceForge)."
>>
>> I went looking for the JWT Desktop in sourceforge, it does not find it
>> with a search for "JWT Desktop" with all words.
>>
>> What I really want is an embedded OSGI engine to run my workflows,
>> which all have tasks encapsulated in Java classes that all take and
>> return a Context (think of as a payload) object. Is there anything
>> like that that does not have a GPL licence?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David
Re: Where is JWT Desktop? [message #493209 is a reply to message #493158] Fri, 23 October 2009 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Wynter is currently offline David Wynter
Messages: 4548
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Marc,

I am aware of an excellent workflow engine, werkflow,
werkflow.codehaus.org, that has not been used widely but has very good
coverage of the workflow patterns
(http://www.workflowpatterns.com/documentation/). Because Bob McWhirter,
original author of werkflow, followed Aalst's work closely. werkflow has
it's own xml based workflow language. Should be fairly simple to wrap
this in a different xml workflow language. You will find no
documentation, but a reasonable coverage of the xml workflow language in
the test cases.

I am thinking of it, but not sure if I have the time, with multiple
projects going on at the moment.

If you are going to have a look, ignore the downloads, go to SVN, trunk,
ignore old.werkflow and newish-werkflow. The rest works and has been
used in production environments. It appears to have no licence attached
to the code.

regards,

David

Marc Dutoo wrote:
> Hi David
>
> I guess Florian was talking about future contributions to JWT in the
> perimeter of Desktop BPM coming from the AgilPro JWT-based BPM tool
> suite that his University of Augsburg releases. The AgilPro tool suite
> can be downloaded under the GPL at
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/agilpro. Alas, there are no OSGi'd
> workflow engine there that I know of.
>
> Another part of JWT Desktop we've been thinking to get is an OSGified,
> embedded (in Eclipse or RCP) packaging of the LGPL-licensed OW2 Bonita
> workflow engine. Bonita has already been packaged with JWT, along with
> web services and SCA oriented extensions in the OW2 Scarbo SOA BPM
> solution (see http://scarbo.ow2.org ).
>
> We have not OSGified Bonita yet, but have a look at what Flavio Donze
> (coming from a SpringSource context) did about it (see previous posts
> and also especially
> http://forge.ow2.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=6578&foru m_id=1528 ), I
> guess it's very close to your goal.
>
> You said you did not want GPL, Bonita is LGPL which is nicer for
> commercial/proprietary developments so you may find it OK for you. Note
> that neither GPL nor LGPL are compatible with the Eclipse license,
> that's why the JWT project will never be able to have it in its
> codebase. It should not be a problem for you though, at least as long as
> you don't intend to contribute to the Eclipse Foundation.
>
> Besides GPL and LGPL, I don't know of Open Source workflow engines.
> JBoss is also LGPL. ODE is Apache but is a BPEL service orchestrator
> rather than a workflow engine...
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
> David Wynter a écrit :
>> Sorry I meant Florian....
>>
>> David
>>
>> David Wynter wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Fabian made this statement earlier in the list "or you can call some
>>> Java classes using the JWT Desktop engine (which is alas still not
>>> converted to Eclipse right now and only available on SourceForge)."
>>>
>>> I went looking for the JWT Desktop in sourceforge, it does not find
>>> it with a search for "JWT Desktop" with all words.
>>>
>>> What I really want is an embedded OSGI engine to run my workflows,
>>> which all have tasks encapsulated in Java classes that all take and
>>> return a Context (think of as a payload) object. Is there anything
>>> like that that does not have a GPL licence?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> David
Re: Where is JWT Desktop? [message #493504 is a reply to message #493209] Mon, 26 October 2009 10:46 Go to previous message
Marc Dutoo is currently offline Marc Dutoo
Messages: 71
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi David

I've been trying to help you, now you're trying to help me, so thanks !

JWT is made with the ability to target different workflow engines in
mind, so it surely could support the Werkflow XML workflow language
(actually, it's JWT that adapts to the engine and not the opposite) by
writing the right JWT Transformation, which could be kickstarted using
one of the existing Transformation plugins.

You or anybody else is welcome to do that, we'd be happy to help them
and even make them committers on the JWT project if it comes to that.

However, right now we (at Open Wide and I guess Augsburg U.) don't have
the resources to focus outside our primary goal, that is targetting a
good, standards-compatible entreprise workflow engine with a good
community. From what I've seen on the website, Werkflow alas has
neither, though it seems a good implementation from what you say.

Our next goals is indeed to target an Eclipse-embedded workflow engine
in order to bring workflow features to the Desktop. I believe we're
closer to achieve that using an OSGified Bonita (thanks to Flavio
Donze's and Michael Istria's work) than any other workflow engine at
this time. This will also help developers, who will be able to test
their workflow on the same engine that they will deploy it in the
information system.

Finally, it's true that we are looking for an engine that we could
actually commit in Eclipse, but the Eclipse foundation handles licensing
issues very seriously, and before considering Werkflow and licensing a
copy of its code as EPL I'd at least have a word with the author, its
funders, users etc.

Regards,
Marc

David Wynter a écrit :
> Marc,
>
> I am aware of an excellent workflow engine, werkflow,
> werkflow.codehaus.org, that has not been used widely but has very good
> coverage of the workflow patterns
> (http://www.workflowpatterns.com/documentation/). Because Bob McWhirter,
> original author of werkflow, followed Aalst's work closely. werkflow has
> it's own xml based workflow language. Should be fairly simple to wrap
> this in a different xml workflow language. You will find no
> documentation, but a reasonable coverage of the xml workflow language in
> the test cases.
>
> I am thinking of it, but not sure if I have the time, with multiple
> projects going on at the moment.
>
> If you are going to have a look, ignore the downloads, go to SVN, trunk,
> ignore old.werkflow and newish-werkflow. The rest works and has been
> used in production environments. It appears to have no licence attached
> to the code.
>
> regards,
>
> David
>
> Marc Dutoo wrote:
>> Hi David
>>
>> I guess Florian was talking about future contributions to JWT in the
>> perimeter of Desktop BPM coming from the AgilPro JWT-based BPM tool
>> suite that his University of Augsburg releases. The AgilPro tool suite
>> can be downloaded under the GPL at
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/agilpro. Alas, there are no OSGi'd
>> workflow engine there that I know of.
>>
>> Another part of JWT Desktop we've been thinking to get is an OSGified,
>> embedded (in Eclipse or RCP) packaging of the LGPL-licensed OW2 Bonita
>> workflow engine. Bonita has already been packaged with JWT, along with
>> web services and SCA oriented extensions in the OW2 Scarbo SOA BPM
>> solution (see http://scarbo.ow2.org ).
>>
>> We have not OSGified Bonita yet, but have a look at what Flavio Donze
>> (coming from a SpringSource context) did about it (see previous posts
>> and also especially
>> http://forge.ow2.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=6578&foru m_id=1528 ), I
>> guess it's very close to your goal.
>>
>> You said you did not want GPL, Bonita is LGPL which is nicer for
>> commercial/proprietary developments so you may find it OK for you.
>> Note that neither GPL nor LGPL are compatible with the Eclipse
>> license, that's why the JWT project will never be able to have it in
>> its codebase. It should not be a problem for you though, at least as
>> long as you don't intend to contribute to the Eclipse Foundation.
>>
>> Besides GPL and LGPL, I don't know of Open Source workflow engines.
>> JBoss is also LGPL. ODE is Apache but is a BPEL service orchestrator
>> rather than a workflow engine...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Marc
>>
>> David Wynter a écrit :
>>> Sorry I meant Florian....
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> David Wynter wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Fabian made this statement earlier in the list "or you can call some
>>>> Java classes using the JWT Desktop engine (which is alas still not
>>>> converted to Eclipse right now and only available on SourceForge)."
>>>>
>>>> I went looking for the JWT Desktop in sourceforge, it does not find
>>>> it with a search for "JWT Desktop" with all words.
>>>>
>>>> What I really want is an embedded OSGI engine to run my workflows,
>>>> which all have tasks encapsulated in Java classes that all take and
>>>> return a Context (think of as a payload) object. Is there anything
>>>> like that that does not have a GPL licence?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> David
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